Football: Does Infantino have a Time Turner?

[Tywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Darryk said:

We're talking perfect athletes and that's what football is focused on nowadays. What I'm saying is 20 years ago you had amazing players who weren't necessarily great athletes, they were football artists on a level you just don't see that often anymore.

I guess it's cause the game has become so focused on pace and athleticism, which is understandable. Someone like Riquelme, who was a pure joy to watch in his time, probably would never make it today because of his famously languid style of play.

All sports, not just this one, have moved towards specialization for decades now. Look at track or gymnastics. You're seeing the exact same thing. Football will always be special because it's the most accessible sport by pretty much every measure, but I think the Thomas Mullers of the world will probably fade as scouts look for better athletes who can do the same thing. 

[Consigliere]

Arguably the greatest CB (top 3 at worst) in football history, Franco Baresi, is a meagre 5'7 and not that quick. It takes far more than being a good athlete to be a top class footballer. Pure athleticism is secondary in football. Skill, anticipation, positioning and reading of the game are far more important. Adama Traore is probably among the very best athletes in all of football and is no more than slightly above average on his best day.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

24 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Pele perhaps since his peak was before my time. But I did see a good amount of Maradona. He was fucking superb, but Messi is still the better (albeit marginally) footballer imo and his peak lasted longer than Maradona's did. Longevity should count for something.

Messi is just missing a world cup, but it should be acknowledged that Messi plays during an era where one player cannot just single-handedly carry a team to glory - the standard of coaching, fitness and all round professionalism of football has improved significantly from Maradona's time to the point that a team cannot just rely on the individual brilliance of one player to carry them to titles.

The argument about improved professionalism and coaching and longevity cut both ways. Who knows, maybe Diego born 30 years later would've enjoyed a longer (but much more boring) career at the top of his game.

As for Pele, wasn't Garrincha the actual MVP for Brazil for both titles ('58 and '62)? 

[Tywin et al.]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

Is Messi fuck one of the 10 fastest players ever. 

And because we know this better than you. 

 

Every time I Google fastest soccer players ever he always is mentioned. 

ETA: Now relax, England is up.

[Corvinus85]

Great goal

[Rorshach]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Those are continents, not countries. I think you guys sometimes forget just how big the US is.

Yes, he was. But when did he start training for it? After he was already an Olympic champion. Maybe he could have played WR in the NFL if he trained for it from a young age.

He's still one of the ten fastest players ever recorded. Messi and Ronaldo are also on those lists. Why do you guys just handwave this away?

We don't. We just have a rather bigger picture of who has been the best players over a number of years.

Fastest one I can remember? Robert Jarni, left back for Croatia in the mid 90s. 

What do you mean, you've never heard of him?

[Consigliere]

Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The argument about improved professionalism and coaching and longevity cut both ways. Who knows, maybe Diego born 30 years later would've enjoyed a longer (but much more boring) career at the top of his game.

Diego's issue was that he enjoyed the snow a bit too much. Being born later on, he'd still probably be a coke addict.

 

Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said:

As for Pele, wasn't Garrincha the actual MVP for Brazil for both titles ('58 and '62)? 

Probably. Before my time.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I always find this "player X of the past wouldn't play today because of better fitness/more pace" arguments silly. Any of these players that hypothetically would enter a time machine would also have the benefits of today's medicine and technological advancements. Technique is what matters. The exception I think are the guys that had alcohol/drugs problems, like Maradona, Garrincha and Best, whose habits either would stop them altogether or caught up with them even faster 

[polishgenius]

16 minutes ago, Darryk said:

Someone like Riquelme, who was a pure joy to watch in his time, probably would never make it today because of his famously languid style of play.

 

He'd need to be in better shape, for sure, but players of comparable skill to Riquelme exist. Not in exactly the same roles, but he's not all that different to what Eriksen does in our team right now. Or Paqueta at West Ham and that's just in the Prem.

Basically I'm not having that the technical standards of the game have dropped when players like Eberechi Eze and James Maddison aren't playing in Europe. 

 

It's true that for a while there the flair aspect dropped quite hard, as teams and players became more about efficiency, but that's not a skill issue, it's a priorities issue, and I'd say even that is coming back now. 

 

 

eta: the reason Messi and that are among the fastest players ever recorded is that it's only quite recently that player's speeds started being recorded. 

 

[Consigliere]

1 minute ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Technique is what matters. The exception I think are the guys that had alcohol/drugs problems, like Maradona, Garrincha and Best, whose habits either would stop them altogether or caught up with them even faster 

Agreed.

[Winterfell is Burning]

3 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The argument about improved professionalism and coaching and longevity cut both ways. Who knows, maybe Diego born 30 years later would've enjoyed a longer (but much more boring) career at the top of his game.

As for Pele, wasn't Garrincha the actual MVP for Brazil for both titles ('58 and '62)? 

62 yes, because Pelé got injured. 58 no. His record of scoring a hat trick in the semi-final plus a brace in the final is still unbeaten by any player, let alone a 17 year old.

[BigFatCoward]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Every time I Google fastest soccer players ever he always is mentioned. 

ETA: Now relax, England is up.

Football players dont do stuff like the nfl where they do the timed 40. There is no way of really knowing who is the fastest. Thought I'd say Henry in my time based on eye test.  

[Consigliere]

Good acceleration over a short distance (5-10 yards is what matters more in football). A player with great short distance acceleration is more valuable than pure top speed.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Young Ronaldo was pretty fast, too. (Brazilian Ronaldo).

Aubameang is (or at least was) another speedster. Alphonso Davies is also very quick on his feet.

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Consigliere said:

Good acceleration over a short distance (5-10 yards is what matters more in football). A player with great short distance acceleration is more valuable than pure top speed.

Gary Lineker was immense in the box at this, a lot of it was upstairs though. 

[Corvinus85]

Kane finally scores at this tournament.

[Rorshach]

Btw, to go personal anecdote for a minute, I have played (as a left back) against this guy, who (for those of you who read Norwegian) was playing for Rosenborg when they were a force - a smaller one, but still - in Europe. 

Now, he was the biggest speedster I've seen in the Norwegian PL, and having played against him, I can attest he was *fucking fast*. He still was nowhere near being a regular in the PL the time he was there.

[Consigliere]

Just now, BigFatCoward said:

Gary Lineker was immense in the box at this, a lot of it was upstairs though. 

Yup. A more recent example: Van Nistelrooy used to be labelled a tap in merchant but the reason he got so many 'tap ins' was because of his superb positioning, anticipation and ability to ghost defenders and find a yard of space for himself inside the box.

[polishgenius]

It was the old saying they had about Sheringham- he was slow as fuck by the time he played for us but he kept beating players to it coz the first yard was in his head. 

[Tywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Rorschach - 2 said:

We don't. We just have a rather bigger picture of who has been the best players over a number of years.

Fastest one I can remember? Robert Jarni, left back for Croatia in the mid 90s. 

What do you mean, you've never heard of him?

I've looked at half a dozen lists and have not seen that name. 

9 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Football players dont do stuff like the nfl where they do the timed 40. There is no way of really knowing who is the fastest. Thought I'd say Henry in my time based on eye test.  

Idk, maybe it's because there's zero interest where you're from, but here they regularly compare the sports science of international footballers to NFL and NBA players who in theory could actually play the sport. It's why American fans like myself think they can say on the one hand Mbappe's speed and elite athleticism makes him so special for what he does and on the other he'd just be another guy here.