the weirdest theories you've ever seen

[Gilbert Green]

3 minutes ago, sifth said:

I hope, this is a troll post.

Well GRRM did say that there was more to Daario than meets the eye, if that's what you mean.

[Gilbert Green]

11 hours ago, EggBlue said:

it's needless to say there are numerous theories out there . a lot of them closer to fan fiction than theories . ...

I don't know if this relates to your complaint about fan fic, but I have no patience for theories that cannot be reduced to simple propositions, that have some reasonable chance of being proven true or false in future volumes.  This covers most so-called "Grand" theories.

[sifth]

4 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Well GRRM did say that there was more to Daario than meets the eye, if that's what you mean.

The Euron theory makes no sense, unless the guy can teleport. The characters are half a world away from each other.

[Gilbert Green]

39 minutes ago, sifth said:

The Euron theory makes no sense, unless the guy can teleport.

This is simply not true.   It has been addressed and answered many times, but people ignore it because they simply hate the theory. 

The only magic Euron needs is the power to, as he puts it, always have favorable winds and never be becalmed.  To "ride the storm".  But this is a magical power he is explicitly hinted to have, and which we have previously seen used by Mel.  People just refuse to see the implications of this.  They refuse to understand how fast sailing can be under ideal circumstances.  And what would be the top speed of the Silence while "riding the storm".  Would it be 12 knots?  15 knots?  18 knots?  Why don't you whip out your calculator and see how many miles per day that is.

People also refuse to acknowledge GRRM's "Cavil on Chronology" from Storm of Swords.

I'm not saying it's easy to work out a timeline.  Too much uncertainty and too many moving parts.   It might even be that, in the end, the timeline does not work, because GRRM never solved the pesky Meereenese knot.  But when you point out timeline problems with R+L=J, they just tell you "GRRM said to put away the stopwatch and tape measure and enjoy the story."   The difference is, that that theory is popular, and this one is hated.  It's not really about the timeline.

39 minutes ago, sifth said:

The characters are half a world away from each other.

Are they?  We lose track of both of them for months at a time.  And, because of the "Cavill on Chronology" we don't know how to coordinate the times that they appear in one place, and are missing in the other.

[sifth]

26 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

This is simply not true.   It has been addressed and answered many times, but people ignore it because they simply hate the theory. 

The only magic Euron needs is the power to, as he puts it, always have favorable winds and never be becalmed.  To "ride the storm".  But this is a magical power he is explicitly hinted to have, and which we have previously seen used by Mel.  People just refuse to see the implications of this.  They refuse to understand how fast sailing can be under ideal circumstances.  And what would be the top speed of the Silence while "riding the storm".  Would it be 12 knots?  15 knots?  18 knots?  Why don't you whip out your calculator and see how many miles per day that is.

People also refuse to acknowledge GRRM's "Cavil on Chronology" from Storm of Swords.

I'm not saying it's easy to work out a timeline.  Too much uncertainty and too many moving parts.   It might even be that, in the end, the timeline does not work, because GRRM never solved the pesky Meereenese knot.  But when you point out timeline problems with R+L=J, they just tell you "GRRM said to put away the stopwatch and tape measure and enjoy the story."   The difference is, that that theory is popular, and this one is hated.  It's not really about the timeline.

Are they?  We lose track of both of them for months at a time.  And, because of the "Cavill on Chronology" we don't know how to coordinate the times that they appear in one place, and are missing in the other.

Yea, you sound like a crazy person.

[Gilbert Green]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

Yea, you sound like a crazy person.

Good answer.  You've disproven the theory.

[sifth]

5 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Good answer.  You've disproven the theory.

I don't argue with crazy people. All I can say is I'm almost certain everything you posted will probably not happen, because GRRM doesn't write like that.

Euron is leading his army to attack Old Town and about to smash the Redwyne Fleet. He's not going to magically be this other character who's half a world away. Thinking like that is foolish at best.

[Gilbert Green]

5 minutes ago, sifth said:

I don't argue with crazy people.

No.  You just insult them.  Obviously the better policy.

5 minutes ago, sifth said:

All I can say is I'm almost certain everything you posted will probably not happen, because GRRM doesn't write like that.

I have no problem waiting for the books to come out to see whose crazy theories are correct.  I have no problem making (hopefully) friendly wagers.  You're the one who seems to have the problem.  Why is that?

 

[Ring3r]

Sadly, all of the weirdest theories I've seen come from this very forum.  Not a day goes by that people aren't posting nonsense that ignores everything GRRM has written.

I was hoping to find an online book-club, but instead I found a den of shit-lords.

There are exceptions (you know if I'm talking about you) but by and large, I fully understand why GRRM is 100% against fanfic.

[Gilbert Green]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Euron is leading his army to attack Old Town and about to smash the Redwyne Fleet.

This is a fan theory.  I have nothing against fan theories.  But what annoys me about this one is that its proponents state it as established fact.  And support it with no evidence.

I happen to disagree with this theory.    The Redwyne Fleet is coming, so Euron is leaving.  He is going to Slaver's Bay.  And it can hardly be said that he made any secret about it.

I was watching a Preston Jacobs video the other day, in which Preston discusses some early drafts of FEAST stored at some library.  And one of his remarks is that in the early drafts, Euron and Aeron are headed for Slavers' Bay, unlike in the current texts, where they are headed for Oldtown and the Reach.

I laughed.  Because the early drafts don't contradict the current texts on this point.  They merely contradict a fan theory.  One that Preston was too invested in to let go of, even when encountering contrary evidence.

[Gilbert Green]

Here's a pet peeve of mine:  that might make an okay theory, if only it were presented as a theory.  Problem is, it is presented as fact:

Theory/Fact:  Brienne will bring Jaime before Lady Stoneheart.

It is almost never argued that this will happen.  It is merely assumed.  And then of course, one gets into increasingly elaborate theories about what will happen WHEN (not if) Brienne brings Jaime before Stoneheart.  Will Jaime demand trial by combat?  Will Brienne sacrifice her life to save Jaime?  Etc. Etc. Etc.

Personally, I doubt that Brienne is taking Jaime to Stoneheart.    It's a lose/lose option.  Either she keeps her oath and slays Jaime herself.  Or she breaks her oath to save Jaime's life and stays far far away from Stoneheart.  The proposition  in question makes her an oathbreaker, and (almost certainly) kills Jaime anyway.

It's possible such a meeting could happen anyway, for various reasons, but this depends on even further assumptions.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

This is a fan theory.  I have nothing against fan theories.  But what annoys me about this one is that its proponents state it as established fact.  And support it with no evidence.

I happen to disagree with this theory.    The Redwyne Fleet is coming, so Euron is leaving.  He is going to Slaver's Bay.  And it can hardly be said that he made any secret about it.

I was watching a Preston Jacobs video the other day, in which Preston discusses some early drafts of FEAST stored at some library.  And one of his remarks is that in the early drafts, Euron and Aeron are headed for Slavers' Bay, unlike in the current texts, where they are headed for Oldtown and the Reach.

I laughed.  Because the early drafts don't contradict the current texts on this point.  They merely contradict a fan theory.  One that Preston was too invested in to let go of, even when encountering contrary evidence.

I see no evidence (from what has been published so far) that Euron is headed for Slavers Bay or that he is Daario.  It’s quite clear from reading AFFC, that the Ironborn are attacking the Reach.

[Corvo the Crow]

Anything involving Lyanna with anyone besides Rhaegar. 

Anything involving Ashara with anyone besides Stark (most likely Ned but perhaps Brandon)

Anything requiring HUUUGE leaps of logic. Anything that is getting tonsured with a razor held by the hands of some Fransiscan friar named William(of Ockham).

[StarkTullies]

19 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

But the best of them all is hands down Eddard and Lyanna, with Brandon and Lyanna a close 2nd.

Yep.  It's been said that Brandon/Lyanna is the only way to explain Brandon's reaction to Lyanna's disappearance... as if a sister he is not having sex with being kidnapped isn't good enough reason to become angry.

18 hours ago, sifth said:

Odds are there wont even be a Nights King. The character only exists in legends in the main series.

I don't think this counts as a "theory", but the number of fans who believe all these multi-thousand-year legends as irrefutable fact surprise me.  That's not how George Martin writes.  Different cultures have different variations of the Last Hero, Azor Ahai, etc.  Fire & Blood was "written by a maester" less than 200 years afterwards, and he doesn't even the truth.  How is anyone supposed to know the real truth about Azor Ahai, the Night's King, the Bloodstone Emperor, or whatever else?  I think there was a man the Night's King legend was based on, but he certainly was not exactly the way the legends describe him.  It would be quite difficult for a man to "give his seed" to an ice woman who brings unbearable cold with her, to say the least.

17 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think it’s fairly likely that human sacrifice is still practised in parts of the North, at least in times of crisis.  It’s certainly practised among the Free Folk  and on Skaagos.  I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Val and Dalla had performed it.

Yep, of course.  All sorts of things happen in the real world too that we think "don't happen anymore", but it's not the norm.  If the Starks were carrying human sacrifices up through Rickard's time (as has been repeatedly claimed by the same select few posters over and over again), it would be difficult to keep that a secret, and "fans" who claim that the Starks murder innocents left and right to sacrifice them to their evil gods certainly have an agenda for saying so.  Certainly some Free Folk practice human sacrifices, others are repulsed by it.  As far as Skaagos goes, I'm sure it is a "primitive" place but I'm equally sure the tales of Skaagos have been exaggerated and we really don't know what goes on there.

13 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

This is in a similar category to Daario theories.  People don't care for Frog and want him to go away; which in this context means "stay dead".  He's alive though.  Sorry.

I personally liked "Frog"; Quentyn is one of my favorite POV characters.  I don't think he's dead because I want him to be dead.  I think he's dead because Rhaegal burned him alive, his eyes melted out of his sockets, and Barristan witnessed his death.  Surprise twists can be enjoyable in sparse doses; if nothing is it seems and everything is a shock, that is just annoying (and bad writing).  I can think of no plausible reason how Quentyn would be alive, or what purpose that would serve for the plot.  Quentyn served his purpose in the story, and his death (Dany losing her easiest ally and Dorne switching over to support Aegon instead) is part of his character's purpose.

10 hours ago, Ring3r said:

Sadly, all of the weirdest theories I've seen come from this very forum.  Not a day goes by that people aren't posting nonsense that ignores everything GRRM has written.

I was hoping to find an online book-club, but instead I found a den of shit-lords.

Yep, I occasionally "lurked" for about two years before joining this forum, so I knew what to expect.  The "predictions" are worse than theories, but I assume that most people know deep down that their most far-fetched fanfiction can't possibly play out the way they want.  I'm guessing that the hate-all-characters-except-one "fans" hope that the books are never completed so they can continue to believe that their alternate stories are canon.

[LongRider]

12 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Also, Jon and Val are the love children of Ned and Ashara,

That's completely wrong.  Everyone knows that Jon and Meera are twins of Ned and X (take your pick) and Meera was sent to Greywater Watch to hide the truth!   

[Gilbert Green]

13 hours ago, SeanF said:

I see no evidence (from what has been published so far) that Euron is headed for Slavers Bay

Is Euron headed for Slaver's Bay?  Yes because:

- At the Kingsmoot, he has just come from Slavers' Bay, or its vicinity; we know this because he already has the captured Qartheen Warlocks and a supply of Shade of the Evening; and we know from Xaro that the warlocks were following Dany to Slavers Bay, which in turn implies this must have been when Euron captured them.  Euron also knows about Dany before anyone else in the Iron Islands does, implying that he has come from Qarth or Slaver's Bay by extremely fast ship.

- He tells the Kingsmoot he is after Dany's dragons so he can use them for conquest.

- After capturing Aeron and putting him in the Silence, he tells him he is sailing for dragons

- At the Shields, he tries to convince the Ironborn to follow him to Slavers Bay

- When he (at first) fails in this, he convinces Victarion to bring the Iron Fleet to Slavers Bay

- After Euron sends Victarion, Falia tells Aeron at the Shields that Euron still intends to make Dany his queen.

- Later, in the hold of the Silence, Euron tells Aeron that he has no interest in the Seastone chair; expects to lose the Shields; and does not intend to be around when they are lost.  He calls the Ironborn lords who accepted these poison gifts "fools".

- When it is mentioned that the Redwyne Fleet is coming, it is also claimed that the Redwyn fleet is trying to "take them in the rear"; implying that they are leaving because they don't want to be "taken in the rear".

- At the end of the FORSAKEN sample chapter, Euron has a suit of Vayrian steel armor that he apparently did not have at earlier debates at he Kingsmoot or at the Shields; else he would have shown it off to prove his claims.  This may suggest he has been through the Smoking Sea in the interim, after leaving Aeron at the Shields.

- In DANCE, Tyrion 8, Moqorro stares into his fires while the Stinky Steward is skirting the Smoking Sea, and shortly following a storm from the West.  He declares that he has commanded the captain to steer the shortest course [around the smoking see because "[o]thers seek Deenerys too", including "[a] tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

Is it possible that Euron intends to attack Oldtown and/or sink the Redwyne Fleet BEFORE going to Slavers' Bay?  I guess it's possible.  But there seems to be no good evidence for it.   I see no reason why we should not simply apply Occham's Razor, and conclude he is now finally headed for Slavers' Bay.

13 hours ago, SeanF said:

or that he is Daario.  

The argument against the Daario theory, to the extent that it is even remotely honest, is not that there is "no evidence" for it, but rather that any such evidence is outweighed by other counter-evidence, such as the time and distance problems. 

I could respect the argument if it were stated in such terms. 

If you are honestly unaware of these clues, I can list them for you again.  But you have probably heard them before, and don't want to hear them.  This is what people usually mean when they shout "there's no evidence'.  But again, if I am wrong in this guess, just ask, and you will receive.

It's only a theory after all.  Nobody ever claimed conclusive proof.   If you are not interested in discussion I am perfectly happy to wait for WINDS to come out to see who guessed correctly.

13 hours ago, SeanF said:

It’s quite clear from reading AFFC, that the Ironborn are attacking the Reach.

The Ironborn are RAIDING, sure.  Victarion, for instance, conducts raiding operations while EN ROUTE TO SLAVERS BAY.

The Ironborn are raiders.  Even if they HAD the Iron Fleet, they cannot match the concentrated naval might of Westeros, as history shows.

The idea that Euron can face the Redwyne Fleet without the Iron Fleet is so absurd, by normal logic, that some partisans of the theory have postulated that Euron must expect to win by magic.  One fun idea (and I admit it is a fun idea) is that Euron will use blood magic to summon krakens.   But as fun as this idea is, there is little evidence that it is about to happen.

Euron, too, has collected a supply of captured merchant ships.  Useful for ferrying Dany's troops to Westeros.  Not useful in a pitch battle against the concentrated naval might of Westeros.  

But that was not the issue.  The issue was whether, at the end of THE FORESAKEN, they were headed to attack Oldtown or the Redwyne Fleet.

That Euron, after leaving the island, is headed to Oldtown or to face the Redwyne Fleet, is a FAN THEORY.  And there is little or no evidence supporting it.

Still, it might not be an absolutely terrible fan theory, if it were merely presented as such, and not as established fact.

[kissdbyfire]

4 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Yep.  It's been said that Brandon/Lyanna is the only way to explain Brandon's reaction to Lyanna's disappearance... as if a sister he is not having sex with being kidnapped isn't good enough reason to become angry.

I know, it’s insane. And it’s the same w/ Jon deciding to confront Ramsay, because of clear threats the latter made to the Watch, Jon, & guests of the Watch. Because it’s all about, ‘booo he only wants to save Arya, traitor, good that Bowen killed him!’. I mean, even w/o the threats, even if he was breaking his vow - he isn’t - to save anyone from Ramsay, it would still be the right decision. But no, let’s defend a bigoted coward and a serial rapist & murderer instead b/c ‘I hate the Starks’. WTAF is wrong w/ people? 
 

4 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

I personally liked "Frog"; Quentyn is one of my favorite POV characters.  I don't think he's dead because I want him to be dead.  I think he's dead because Rhaegal burned him alive, his eyes melted out of his sockets, and Barristan witnessed his death.  Surprise twists can be enjoyable in sparse doses; if nothing is it seems and everything is a shock, that is just annoying (and bad writing).  I can think of no plausible reason how Quentyn would be alive, or what purpose that would serve for the plot.  Quentyn served his purpose in the story, and his death (Dany losing her easiest ally and Dorne switching over to support Aegon instead) is part of his character's purpose.

Gods be good… of course he’s dead. Deader than Ned. Deader than any dead character. Exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Amazing. 
 

4 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Yep, I occasionally "lurked" for about two years before joining this forum, so I knew what to expect.  The "predictions" are worse than theories, but I assume that most people know deep down that their most far-fetched fanfiction can't possibly play out the way they want.  I'm guessing that the hate-all-characters-except-one "fans" hope that the books are never completed so they can continue to believe that their alternate stories are canon.

Yeah, well, that’s what happens when you people wait years and years and years. I’ve been waiting longer than a good chunk of the fandom has been alive? And then the influx of new fans the abomination brought, and each new book too. Lots of people want to be the special snowflake who’s ‘figured it all out’. Only most all sane theories have been brought up before by someone(s). So the only way to achieve ‘special know-it-all snowflake status’ is to go crackpotier and crackpotier. 

[Gilbert Green]

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

I personally liked "Frog"; Quentyn is one of my favorite POV characters.  I don't think he's dead because I want him to be dead. 

There is no reason to construe my remark as referring to you personally.  I was not explaining why people disagree with the theory.  People are allowed to disagree with the theory.  Because after all it is only a theory.  I was explaining why people hate the theory with a bitter seething burning passion.

Such passion is never directed at theories with no evidence.  People just smile at those.

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

I think he's dead because Rhaegal burned him alive, his eyes melted out of his sockets, and Barristan witnessed his death. 

The theory addresses this.  I am guessing you already knew that, though, so no need to repeat.  If I am wrong about this, ask and you shall receive.

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Surprise twists can be enjoyable in sparse doses; if nothing is it seems and everything is a shock, that is just annoying (and bad writing). 

The bad writing argument is just another way of saying that you hate the theory.

I'm not here to express opinions on whether GRRM is a bad writer.   Many people accuse him of being one, for a myriad of reasons.  Such arguments will never be resolved.

Whether Frog is alive or not is a question that might indeed eventually be resolved, if WINDS is eventually released.  Whether or not WINDS was badly written is something that people will disagree about forever.

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

I can think of no plausible reason how Quentyn would be alive, ....

Again, the theory addresses the "how" part.  If you are really in the dark, ask and you shall receive.

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

or what purpose that would serve for the plot. 

The theory might be true regardless of whether we can guess what purpose it serves in the plot.

We can try to guess the purpose, but then we are formulating a new (though perhaps related) theory.  Such theories exist, though.  If you are curious, ask and you shall receive.

But, again, we don't have to.  I am perfectly happy to wait until WINDS comes out.

5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Quentyn served his purpose in the story, and his death (Dany losing her easiest ally and Dorne switching over to support Aegon instead) is part of his character's purpose.

This theory as to his death's purpose is just that -- a theory.

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I know, it’s insane. And it’s the same w/ Jon deciding to confront Ramsay, because of clear threats the latter made to the Watch, Jon, & guests of the Watch. Because it’s all about, ‘booo he only wants to save Arya, traitor, good that Bowen killed him!’. I mean, even w/o the threats, even if he was breaking his vow - he isn’t - to save anyone from Ramsay, it would still be the right decision. But no, let’s defend a bigoted coward and a serial rapist & murderer instead b/c ‘I hate the Starks’. WTAF is wrong w/ people? 
 

Gods be good… of course he’s dead. Deader than Ned. Deader than any dead character. Exactly for the reasons you mentioned. Amazing. 
 

Yeah, well, that’s what happens when you people wait years and years and years. I’ve been waiting longer than a good chunk of the fandom has been alive? And then the influx of new fans the abomination brought, and each new book too. Lots of people want to be the special snowflake who’s ‘figured it all out’. Only most all sane theories have been brought up before by someone(s). So the only way to achieve ‘special know-it-all snowflake status’ is to go crackpotier and crackpotier. 

What irks me is the cheerleading and the denunciation. There are thoroughly wicked people in this tale, whose downfall we should all applaud.

But, the sympathetic characters are all flawed.  They are people like you and me, but operating within a world that is poorer, and far more violent than our own.

Jon is not a selfless saint, but a well-meaning leader doing his best in desperate circumstances.  Arya is not a psychopath, but a child who has suffered things no child should ever suffer.  Sansa is an initially spoiled child who develops empathy and compassion.  Dany is a compassionate woman with a cruel streak.  Stannis is not the Mannis but a ruthless leader with some good standards.

[kissdbyfire]

30 minutes ago, SeanF said:

What irks me is the cheerleading and the denunciation. There are thoroughly wicked people in this tale, whose downfall we should all applaud.

But, the sympathetic characters are all flawed.  They are people like you and me, but operating within a world that is poorer, and far more violent than our own.

Jon is not a selfless saint, but a well-meaning leader doing his best in desperate circumstances.  Arya is not a psychopath, but a child who has suffered things no child should ever suffer.  Sansa is an initially spoiled child who develops empathy and compassion.  Dany is a compassionate woman with a cruel streak.  Stannis is not the Mannis but a ruthless leader with some good standards.

The bolded x 1,000. That’s why I rhetorically asked, ‘WTAF is wrong with people?’

I will never understand the ‘I don’t like character X so I’ll cheer on a serial rapist’ mentality. I’ll go as far as saying I can even appreciate a good trolling, but this isn’t good trolling, it’s something else and I find it disturbing.