Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said: I like to dragon Dany ...intentional pun, or Freudian slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said: ...intentional pun, or Freudian slip? I meant to say “I like to drag Dany” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: Stannis acts this way too, as does Tywin and even Robb. Almost all nobles act like those below them on the feudal pyramid are disposable. Nope, entirely different. First, "those below them" are their own subjects, second, Dany does exactly the opposite of what she set out to do and caused tens of thousands to die. How the hell is allowing slavery when you set out to end it and killed and caused to die tens of thousands of people the same with what Tywin, Robb or Stannis does? Did Stannis, for example, take the iron throne and killed tens of thousands and just went "meh, I don't want it, I'll give it to Joff"? That would be comparable to Dany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Nope, entirely different. First, "those below them" are their own subjects, second, Dany does exactly the opposite of what she set out to do and caused tens of thousands to die. How the hell is allowing slavery when you set out to end it and killed and caused to die tens of thousands of people the same with what Tywin, Robb or Stannis does? Did Stannis, for example, take the iron throne and killed tens of thousands and just went "meh, I don't want it, I'll give it to Joff"? That would be comparable to Dany. The peasants of the Riverlands, Kings Landing, and the Westlands say "hello". Edited January 12, 2023 by SeanF Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Nope, entirely different. I don't see how. Robb, Tywin, Stannis and Daenerys are all willing to let people die for their goals. 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: How the hell is allowing slavery when you set out to end it and killed and caused to die tens of thousands of people the same with what Tywin, Robb or Stannis does? It's not, but I never said it was. What I quoted from you was: Quote The way she acts. She acts as if she has a right over peoples lives. And that Robb Stannis etc. have the same attitude, an attitude common to almost all Westerosi nobles. I never said that allowing Slavery was the same as what they were doing. It's the attitude I see as the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: It's not, but I never said it was. What I quoted from you was: Quote The thing I referred to as her acts was this which I had said earlier. 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: How the hell is allowing slavery when you set out to end it and killed and caused to die tens of thousands of people the same with what Tywin, Robb or Stannis does? The others are working in the confines of their society while Dany does this. He completely alters how the society, not even hers, works, kills and causes the death of tens of thousands and decides she's just gonna revert it to the way it was by allowing slavery again. They ate the shit and nothing has changed. Except that Dany's god complex was satisfied for a bit. Was it worth tens of thousands, perhaps over a hundred thousand peoples lives though? Apparently, for some it was, since she is a Targaryen. And you know what? I bet she's gonna do it again and kill and cause the deaths of thousands more. Edited January 12, 2023 by Corvo the Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said: The others are working in the confines of their society Robb is but Tywin and Stannis are happy to work outside of the confines of society by breaking taboos and doing things that are just not socially acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Robb is but Tywin and Stannis are happy to work outside of the confines of society by breaking taboos and doing things that are just not socially acceptable. Again not comparable to Dany's god complexes switching in and out of slavery just so she feels like it. She's also hypocritical and not just in this, she gives a chance and allows her own former slaver Dothraki to live but doesn't give any chances to other people. Quote Her litter came to a sudden halt at the cross street, to allow a coffle of slaves to shuffle across her path, urged along by the crack of an overseer's lash. These were no Unsullied, Dany noted, but a more common sort of men, with pale brown skins and black hair. There were women among them, but no children. All were naked. Two Astapori rode behind them on white asses, a man in a red silk tokar and a veiled woman in sheer blue linen decorated with flakes of lapis lazuli. In her red-black hair she wore an ivory comb. The man laughed as he whispered to her, paying no more mind to Dany than to his slaves, nor the overseer with his twisted five-thonged lash, a squat broad Dothraki who had the harpy and chains tattooed proudly across his muscular chest. Did this guy get a chance? I don't think so. She explicitly ordered this guy to be murdered. And unlike her slaving Dothraki, this guy is a slave himself. Quote "Unsullied!" Dany galloped before them, her silver-gold braid flying behind her, her bell chiming with every stride. "Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see." She raised the harpy's fingers in the air . . . and then she flung the scourge aside. "Freedom!" she sang out. "Dracarys! Dracarys!" And let me add this: Bat in the Attic: Medieval Population Pyramid 13 and below in a medieval society corresponds to %29 of the society(I'm open for other sources), since she killed everyone 12 and above, she killed over %71 of the Astapori freeborn and many slaves as well. Edited January 12, 2023 by Corvo the Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Robb is but Tywin and Stannis are happy to work outside of the confines of society by breaking taboos and doing things that are just not socially acceptable. I'm sure it would be a great comfort to the victims of The War of the Five Kings to know that their killers were working within the confines of their society. Criticism of Daenerys' role in Slavers Bay in the books, comes largely from slavers and those who support them; not from the slaves and freedmen. One of the oddities of some parts of the fandom is that killing slave owners and overseers is viewed much more harshly than killing peasants. Edited January 12, 2023 by SeanF Nathan Stark and Morte 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Again not comparable to Dany's god complexes switching in and out of slavery just so she feels like it. She's also hypocritical and not just in this, she gives a chance and allows her own former slaver Dothraki to live but doesn't give any chances to other people. Did this guy get a chance? I don't think so. She explicitly ordered this guy to be murdered. And unlike her slaving Dothraki, this guy is a slave himself. My heart bleeds for overseers the same way it does for the Tickler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: She's also hypocritical So is Stannis. I am not a great fan of Daenerys but saying she has a god complex and switches in and out of slavery just because she feels like it is not really backed up by the text. She still maintains a ban on slavery where she rules, she never lifts this, she just lets people choose if they want to sell themselves or not. That's not her switching to slavery again. And at no point when reading did I ever think she had a god complex. She's certainly entitled but it's not like Daenerys thinks of herself as a god and demands her subjects worship her. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: So is Stannis. I am not a great fan of Daenerys but saying she has a god complex and switches in and out of slavery just because she feels like it is not really backed up by the text. She still maintains a ban on slavery where she rules, she never lifts this, she just lets people choose if they want to sell themselves or not. That's not her switching to slavery again. And at no point when reading did I ever think she had a god complex. She's certainly entitled but it's not like Daenerys thinks of herself as a god and demands her subjects worship her. She allows it in Astapor and Yunkai, places she removed it. Just look at Braavos, they enforced a ban on slavery in Pentos and it has held for over a hundred years. Sure, it's not working that great, people are now indentured servants but Braavos hasn't reverted, nor did they allow people to sell themselves in slavery. Dany has thousands of soldiers and more than 8000 of them are the best slave soldiers to have ever existed. The soldiers they are going to fight are slaves as well so she may perhaps win them too but no, she allows a milder form of slavery in Meereen and allows full on chattel slavery in Yunkai and Astapor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 23 minutes ago, SeanF said: I'm sure it would be a great comfort to the victims of The War of the Five Kings to know that their killers were working within the confines of their society. Robb's hands aren't blood free. Readers find him more sympathetic than his enemies but he has still killed his fair share of peasants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Robb's hands aren't blood free. Readers find him more sympathetic than his enemies but he has still killed his fair share of peasants. Yes. As @Ranputs it, "Robb takes the decisions that kings take." I'm quite sure that Roose Bolton's behaviour at Harrenhall was outside his knowledge, but hanging young women, pillaging and burning the West? That was done with his approval, quite openly, by his commanders. I do think that a lot of the criticism that both Daenerys and Arya get stems from the belief that killing is somehow mens' work. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 If this happens, I hope Ser. Barristan isn't around to see it. The poor guy just wants to serve a king or queen that's a good person and devote the rest of his life to their service. It's such an unselfish request, I'd honestly feel bad, if he lived long enough to see Dany go mad. He truly believes in her. SaffronLady, EggBlue and Morte 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 minute ago, sifth said: If this happens, I hope Ser. Barristan isn't around to see it. The poor guy just wants to serve a king or queen that's a good person and devote the rest of his life to their service. It's such an unselfish request, I'd honestly feel bad, if he lived long enough to see Dany go mad. He truly believes in her. I think Barristan serving someone is proof that person will be a shit ruler. It was with Aerys and Robert and Joffrey. He Could've gone to serve Robb or Renly or Stannis but he didn't, meaning they were potentially good rulers. Why he didn't go serve for Balon for a while I can't tell, maybe it was too obvious that he didn't feel the need to be at his side to hint at it. EggBlue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: I think Barristan serving someone is proof that person will be a shit ruler. It was with Aerys and Robert and Joffrey. He Could've gone to serve Robb or Renly or Stannis but he didn't, meaning they were potentially good rulers. Why he didn't go serve for Balon for a while I can't tell, maybe it was too obvious that he didn't feel the need to be at his side to hint at it. I mean just about all of the kings in the main series were pretty horrible rulers. Renly was probably the best of the ones given to us though. Edited January 12, 2023 by sifth Craving Peaches, Morte and EggBlue 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: I think Barristan serving someone is proof that person will be a shit ruler. It was with Aerys and Robert and Joffrey. He Could've gone to serve Robb or Renly or Stannis but he didn't, meaning they were potentially good rulers. Why he didn't go serve for Balon for a while I can't tell, maybe it was too obvious that he didn't feel the need to be at his side to hint at it. This is an interesting view. I don't think Barristan was that good either. He stood by and watched as Rhaella was abused and raped, along with the rest of Aerys' Kingsguard. Not even a word spoken for her. Jaime seemed to care the most out of all of them. Mind you, Barristan going to serve Daenerys could equally be because he's going senile in his old age or from the heat. In an arid climate and he still wears full plate armour. 25 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Why he didn't go serve for Balon for a while I can't tell, maybe it was too obvious that he didn't feel the need to be at his side to hint at it. Because he's secretly a coward who fears falling into the sea and drowning with his heavy armour. Unlike Vicky who is a much better man. Edited January 12, 2023 by Craving Peaches Corvo the Crow and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 5 hours ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said: I meant to say “I like to drag Dany” First rule of puns is: always claim it was intentional, even if it wasn't! I figured you had meant to say "drag on Dany," so it sounded like a nice play on words. EggBlue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 The same way Rhaenyra went "mad". She'll take the throne and begin leaning towards violence and tyranny as Westeros defies her rule, causing many to abandon her, causing her to become paranoid, causing many to abandon, causing her to become paranoid, and so the cycle downwards until the people chuck her out. She'll redeem herself by saving the realm that calls her mad and rejected her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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