HOTD Musings

[The Dragon Demands]

i've been thinking about something Ryan Condal said during the Emmys for your consideration panel around May - "Season 2 has 5 new dragons in it".....in the context of that it now seems less probable that Daeron's Tessarion is in it. 

Ultimately fruitless as we do not know how Condal is counting - does he include hatchlings or riderless ones? Or the brief appearances of Vermithor and Sunfyre in Season 1?

Prior to Season 1 he said there were 9 dragons in it - there were actually 10; but could have been 11 as Moondancer was originally going to have a brief appearance that got cut.  So he may just be in error.

We're reasonably sure we'll get Silverwing and Sheepstealer -- if Tessarion won't be there until season 3 if at all that leaves 3. 

There are 2 more wild dragons though they might leave one or both off-screen (they said the wild dragons are their favorite designs). 

And it would be shameful if we don't get Moondancer....or even got Tyraxes but not Moondancer (they describe her as having this really unique design)....but they promised to give Baela more to do. 

So....reassessing this i'm leaning now towards - if "five" is accurate:

1. Silverwing
2. Sheepstealer
3. Cannibal
4. Grey Ghost
5. Moondancer

Which doesn't count better views of Sunfyre or Vermthor...or even Dreamfyre

Edited October 11, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I've speculated that Darke could be a bastard name for Duskendale.

Darke may have been a bastard name once, but it developed into a family name. Duskendale was never a proper part of the Riverlands or the Stormlands, so it would make sense that local traditions survived there for some time, even into the Targaryen reign. Jonquil Darke is most likely not the founder or a crucial member of the family or clan Darke that is still around in Duskendale in AFfC.

2 hours ago, Ran said:

The Masseys of Stonedance and the Bar Emmons of Sharp Point are also known to have been petty kings as some point in the past, so perhaps there are particular bastard names used there that aren't used elsewhere.

That strikes me as less likely as those regions were pretty much part of the heartland of the Stormlands. They ended up in camp Targaryen before the Conquest due to closer ties to Dragonstone, etc. but before their arrival the days of their independence must have been long gone. Especially during the height of Durrandon power when the Storm Kings conquered the Riverlands.

Of course, it also makes little sense to assume that the Targaryens would have an interest to push through or even have a 'bastard name' for their royal demesne ... so whatever.

[The Dragon Demands]

 i don't anticipate getting any new info out of New York Comic Con this coming weekend - despite end of WGA strike. Things are still just starting up.

i haven't gone to NYCC since before the pandemic of course and have no idea when cons will ever be safe again

MAYBE Brazil Comic Con in December?

[The Dragon Demands]

I wasn't going to make a casting video summary but enough people asked so I'm racing one off. Short version, I condensed 5 main points as takeaways:

1. There's been no Daeron casting and we're starting to think our initial suspects were incorrect - reinforcing this, not a single associated character from Daeron's Reach arc has been cast. However, we think this was simply pushed back to Season 3, and Season 2 is going a lot more slowly than initially thought (which is a good thing, they're taking time for "character development"). We're reasonably sure that the Battle of Red Fork only happens at the end of the season, so the main Riverlands campaign of the entire war really only begins as the season ends.
2. No word on casting Jason Lannister's wife Johanna Westerling-Lannister. Nor do we have any idea what her uncle Harrold Westerling is doing. A few Westerlands vassals have been cast from House Reyne and House Lefford and we have spy photos of them massing at Golden Tooth. We don't think Dalton Greyjoy will be cast until Season 3 either. I can't rule out that Johanna is in Season 3 but probably not.
3. No specific word on casting the Blackwoods - though they put a lot of time into setting them up in Season 1, and MANY minor lords have relative unknowns cast who could be playing various vassals (by pure luck we found out one is "Lord Darry" another is Lord Mooton, that kind of thing). Moreover, Ben Blackwood would be very young and we tend not to hear about underaged actors. Oscar Tully HAS been cast. At this point we're not sure if the Blackwoods will be "prominent" in Season 2, or just "introduced" in Season 2 but rise to prominence in Season 3. I'm not worried. We also haven't heard about other specific Northern lords like Manderlys, Dustins, Winter Wolves.
4. No specific word on casting Vale lords or Jess Redfort - though we do know they're expanding the Vale storyline, in the sense of actually depicting it on-screen, so I'm not worried. "Jeyne Arryn's court" should be in it, we just don't know if they'll cast Corwyn Corbray yet, etc. 
5. We haven't confirmed the actors for Nettles or Ulf the White - we know they're in it, we just haven't confirmed who's playing them. We have spy photos of TWO black women during the Sowing of the Dragonseeds but they were too blurry to identify, and while we used to think Ulf was Leon Ockendon now some suspect Tom Bennett.

So right now the most anticipated casting news is loosely: Daeron (might not be in this season), Nettles (in this season but unconfirmed actor), Sara Snow (we strongly suspect it's Erica Ford), Jess Redfort (no idea), and the Blackwoods.

There was nothing that worried me on the scale of say, cutting the older Tyrell brothers - just that the pace of adaptation might be going at the slow, thorough pace we were hoping for.

[The Bard of Banefort]

One of the big plot points in The Hedge Knight is when Aerion kills his opponent’s horse. Since Daemon tripped a horse in the HOTD premiere and everyone acted like it was no big deal, do you think they’re going to change this to something else in THK, or just act like the scene with Daemon never happened?

[The Dragon Demands]

…I think Daemon getting away with that is supposed to be a sign of how decadent this specific era is

[The Bard of Banefort]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:43 AM, The Dragon Demands said:

…I think Daemon getting away with that is supposed to be a sign of how decadent this specific era is

Would anybody know that without watching the Inside the Episode? Nothing about this era feels decadent to me. If anything, The Hedge Knight is probably the high point of the series in terms of peace and plenty, along with Jaehaerys’ and Robert’s reigns. I think they included Daemon tripping the horse because the producers probably wanted more violence and it’s another way to show how ~dangerous~ Daemon is.

 

Has anyone in the cast talked at all about S2? It would be nice to get some insight into the direction they’re heading with the characters.

Edited October 24, 2023 by The Bard of Banefort

[Ran]

6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Would anybody know that without watching the Inside the Episode?

I was explaining the horrific violence of the tourney as suggesting it was a way to indicate that in the GoT universe this was a decadent period, and that was without the benefit of the Inside the Episode since I watched it early.

But I guess I have more context to draw on than the average viewer.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

13 hours ago, Ran said:

I was explaining the horrific violence of the tourney as suggesting it was a way to indicate that in the GoT universe this was a decadent period, and that was without the benefit of the Inside the Episode since I watched it early.

But Great noble houses, like the Starks, randomly losing members at a tourney without anyone caring is a bridge too far even for a period of decadence. 

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

But Great noble houses, like the Starks, randomly losing members at a tourney without anyone caring is a bridge too far even for a period of decadence. 

Yes, I felt the same -- it was way gorier and over-the-top than I cared for, personally. But the basic idea was "This is a really decadent time, where the 'knights of summer' have been at peace for so long that tourneys have turned into outright bloodsport as the crowd cheers'." Condal later confirmed this in our interview, where he aimed to give a sense of the tourney in this decadent era being like gladiatorial combat.

I definitely agree with the basic idea, but would have dialed it way back. Too much obvious murdering, and a complete lack of a sense of rules.

[The Dragon Demands]

Big news: set spies who were reliable in the past now say the funeral procession in Caceres was episode 2, not 3….probably meaning Blood and Cheese is in fact the premiere.

They insist that Clare Kilner, not Geeta Patel, directed the funeral procession - and Kilner is doing episode 2.

this throws our entire season 3 outline out of whack

Edited October 24, 2023 by The Dragon Demands

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Big news: set spies who were reliable in the past now say the funeral procession in Caceres was episode 2, not 3….probably meaning Blood and Cheese is in fact the premiere.

 

Set spies? That's a job?

[The Dragon Demands]

It’s a profession. 
 

seriously, paparazzi

[Potsk]

On 10/18/2023 at 3:41 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

One of the big plot points in The Hedge Knight is when Aerion kills his opponent’s horse. Since Daemon tripped a horse in the HOTD premiere and everyone acted like it was no big deal, do you think they’re going to change this to something else in THK, or just act like the scene with Daemon never happened?

Big difference between stabbing a horse with a lance and tripping it. Also if you look closely, Gwayne tries to do the same move. Daemon was just quicker.

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:54 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

It’s a profession. 
 

seriously, paparazzi

That sounds miserable for some reason. 

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

That sounds miserable for some reason. 

Probably is.

Edited October 27, 2023 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

[The Bard of Banefort]

There are now rumors that, in addition to Daeron, Nettles has also been cut from S2, and possibly from the whole show, which is certainly. . . a choice. 

With Nettles specifically, this goes back to the discussion about whether Daemon could realistically be “redeemed” through his love for a teenage girl. S1 made the decision to lean in to the view of Daemon as a predator, and the showrunners have been pretty staunch in defending that decision. Still, Nettles is a popular character that a lot of fans were excited about seeing onscreen, so it will be a shame if she’s cut.

As for Daeron. . . maybe they just don’t have the budget for another dragon (and rider) this season? It wouldn’t surprise me if they cut back the number of episodes in order to make their funds spread further. That could also be a contributing factor for Nettles/Sheepstealer, especially since this season will likely include the highest number of individual dragons.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

There are now rumors that, in addition to Daeron, Nettles has also been cut from S2, and possibly from the whole show, which is certainly. . . a choice. 

With Nettles specifically, this goes back to the discussion about whether Daemon could realistically be “redeemed” through his love for a teenage girl. S1 made the decision to lean in to the view of Daemon as a predator, and the showrunners have been pretty staunch in defending that decision. Still, Nettles is a popular character that a lot of fans were excited about seeing onscreen, so it will be a shame if she’s cut.

Falling of uncomplicated young girls always helps with the conscience of old men, so that is not really a big issue here. The narrative reason why I might want to cut the Nettles thing is for what it does to Rhaenyra. It turns her into a jealous and merciless madwoman over a completely trivial issue.

You couldn't give that episode to the woman they have in HotD. It would have to be changed considerably to even remotely make sense. Ditto with Mysaria. She wouldn't act the way she does in FaB in HotD.

But I doubt she is cut. She could easily enough be postponed to season 3, entering the fray only after Jace's death.

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

As for Daeron. . . maybe they just don’t have the budget for another dragon (and rider) this season? It wouldn’t surprise me if they cut back the number of episodes in order to make their funds spread further. That could also be a contributing factor for Nettles/Sheepstealer, especially since this season will likely include the highest number of individual dragons.

No Daeron showing up is odd, as scenes at Oldtown would have been in order by that time. But he could just as well only show up in season 3.

[$erPounce]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

There are now rumors that, in addition to Daeron, Nettles has also been cut from S2, and possibly from the whole show, which is certainly. . . a choice. 

With Nettles specifically, this goes back to the discussion about whether Daemon could realistically be “redeemed” through his love for a teenage girl. S1 made the decision to lean in to the view of Daemon as a predator, and the showrunners have been pretty staunch in defending that decision. Still, Nettles is a popular character that a lot of fans were excited about seeing onscreen, so it will be a shame if she’s cut.

As for Daeron. . . maybe they just don’t have the budget for another dragon (and rider) this season? It wouldn’t surprise me if they cut back the number of episodes in order to make their funds spread further. That could also be a contributing factor for Nettles/Sheepstealer, especially since this season will likely include the highest number of individual dragons.

I definitely don't think such an important character as Nettles will be cut from the show. It's also not something I see Ryan Condal doing, because he does often cast characters that are unimportant in the time period in which House of the Dragon is set, such as Ryam Redwyne, for example.

I would be surprised if Nettles was not introduced in season 2. Previous rumors said the Sowing of the Dragonseeds would happen during episode 7. In spy photos, we have also seen a darker-skinned girl in proximity to the other Dragonseeds.

But if that's not Nettles... Introducing her later (in the season after) would be odd, unless the events of the Sowing of the Dragonseeds are spread over several episodes and would still be going on at the beginning of season 3.  However, that seems unlikely to me.

That Daeron does not appear in season 2 is not really a shock to me. Based on past leaks, we can draw the conclusion that the season will be very slow-paced. It looks like the season will end with the Battle at the Red Fork. The Battle of the Honeywine and the Battle of the Gullet will most likely not take place during season 2. Daeron does not have an important role before Battle of the Honeywine. But at least he will be mentioned in season 2, that's for sure.

Moving Daeron's subplot to season 3 would go without too many problems, but I can't say the same for Nettles.

Edited November 1, 2023 by $erPounce

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

20 minutes ago, $erPounce said:

I definitely don't think such an important character as Nettles will be cut from the show.

Yeah, given that every character worth mentioning has appeared on the show in one way or another, I also don't believe Nettles will be cut.