The Most Laughable and Worst ASOIAF Theories and Takes

[KingAerys_II]

And the author said the real reason of the Conquest was the dream, that's the point, he did well killing Harren, Argillac and the Gardeners, that was for a greater purpose 

[Craving Peaches]

15 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

And the author said the real reason of the Conquest was the dream

Not in the books he didn't.

[Craving Peaches]

13 hours ago, sifth said:

Jon Snow is coming back as a wight, always makes me laugh.

I find it especially funny how they present it in such a matter-of-fact way.

"Snowflake will join the White Walkers and lead them against Westeros in revenge for Arya's death".

And that's that.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[KingAerys_II]

37 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Not in the books he didn't.

Yes, he did, the idea of the dream is included in the books, it's spoiler the author revealed to the producer, then the producer included it in the show

[kissdbyfire]

10 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Yes, he did, the idea of the dream is included in the books, it's spoiler the author revealed to the producer, then the producer included it in the show

Can you provide a quote to support your claim?

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

who cares if Harren died? 

I don't care that Harren died. I do care that a bunch of slaves, salt wives, children, civilian staff, etc. probably died too thanks to Aegon's roasting of the place. 

[SeanF]

34 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I find it especially funny how they present it in such a matter-of-fact way.

"Snowflake will join the White Walkers and lead them against Westeros in revenge for Arya's death".

And that's that.

Jon may well be a wight (if killed, and resurrected).

But, wights are of varying levels of sentience.  Beric Dondarrion, Coldhands, Melisandre, are very different to rotting zombies 

[KingAerys_II]

22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Can you provide a quote to support your claim?

If you read the entire discussion you have your answers

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Aegon’s dream isn’t mentioned in George R.R. Martin’s Fire & Blood, but it was brought up by Martin himself in a conversation with the House of the Dragon showrunners. In an interview with Polygon, showrunner Ryan J. Condal said:

“That actually came from [Martin] … He told us very early on in the room — just as he does, just casually mentioned the fact that Aegon the Conqueror was a dreamer who saw a vision of the White Walkers coming across the wall and sweeping over the land with cold and darkness. So, with his permission, of course, we infused that into the story because it was such a great way to create resonance with the original show.”

Aegon the Conqueror is described as a mysterious, solitary person who didn’t seem to have much of an interest in ruling Westeros once he conquered it. His true motivation for invading is left open to interpretation, and the dream frames his conquest in a much more noble light.

Source : Forbes

 

I'm not against the idea that Aegon was a dreamer and saw a vision that inspired him to believe he needed to do something.

But I disagree it frames him in a more noble light. On the contrary. To me it makes Aegon the Conquerer who instead of acting enlightened or smart or helpful, acted out of self-grandizing pumped up ego white savior megalomania. He's like someone who claims to be on a spiritual path of enlightenment and into yoga, but then claims they were a high priestess in Egypt in a former life (never some poor smuck with leprosy who dies begging for alms) and post pics of themselves on their instagram influence account while contorting themselves into a pretzel. Spiritual narcissism.

Aegon's conquest as a response to once having had a dream about the Others crossing the wall is the self-grandizing, ego response, not a noble one at all. He makes it all about himself. The whole war with Dorne shows how much he strays from this dream inspiration. They're the pretzel pics for likes on instagram. It doesn't make Aegon's Conquest nobler or better: it actually makes it look worse.

And I'm pretty certain that if George would reveal Aegon being a dragon dreamer who had such a warning, he would make a point of it to remind us that sacrificing other innocent people's lives because you believe you're the savior is the wrong route. Oh, he already made such a point at least once with Stannis considering to sacrifice Edric Storm.

Edited August 20, 2023 by sweetsunray

[SaffronLady]

A2rys would be so happy once Winds of Winter vindicates his claims by saying the old scrolls Rhaegar read about were A1gon's musings about his dreams on the Others and wondering why they weren't showing up.

But until then he deserves all the flak for claiming something exists in the first 5 books when there isn't. Interviews are just interviews, claiming everything GRRM says in an interview makes it to the books is a claim and not a proven fact.

That A1gon did not design policies to deal with the inevitable rot of the Night's Watch is also something people could raise, and paints A1gon in a bad light whether he dreamed of the Others or not.

Edited August 20, 2023 by SaffronLady

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

Yes, he did, the idea of the dream is included in the books, it's spoiler the author revealed to the producer, then the producer included it in the show

No it isn't.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

If you read the entire discussion you have your answers

Huh? I’m not interested in your opinion, nor in anyone else’s for that matter. I’m asking for a single book quote that would support this idea. And you can’t provide one for the simplest of reasons: there isn’t one.

For the record, I wouldn’t be opposed to this idea had it been seeded in the story at any point, even if very discreetly & superficially. But it wasn’t. So if it becomes a thing in the books, yes, I will call it a retcon - and a bad one at that. Another way of putting it - though it’s equally as bad or even worse - is that Martin felt that it is cool to garden planting seeds from the tv shows in the books. Something that is his right of course but frankly irks me immensely. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

But I disagree it frames him in a more noble light. On the contrary.

Exactly. And for more reasons than those you’ve mentioned. For instance, if he had any inkling into the coming apocalyptic threat and did… fuck all, told no one, then he was not only a pathetic narcissistic arsehole but also incredibly stupid and irresponsible. 

[sifth]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I find it especially funny how they present it in such a matter-of-fact way.

"Snowflake will join the White Walkers and lead them against Westeros in revenge for Arya's death".

And that's that.

I don't know, the text makes it pretty clear that Jon is destined to be the main villain and lead The Others, ha ha ha

Where do people get these insane ideas, lol

[Odej]

The Quentyn is alive/Quentyn is Aegon son of Rhaegar makes me divided between pity and mockery.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Odej

[csuszka1948]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Huh? I’m not interested in your opinion, nor in anyone else’s for that matter. I’m asking for a single book quote that would support this idea. And you can’t provide one for the simplest of reasons: there isn’t one.

For the record, I wouldn’t be opposed to this idea had it been seeded in the story at any point, even if very discreetly & superficially. But it wasn’t. So if it becomes a thing in the books, yes, I will call it a retcon - and a bad one at that. Another way of putting it - though it’s equally as bad or even worse - is that Martin felt that it is cool to garden planting seeds from the tv shows in the books. Something that is his right of course but frankly irks me immensely. 

 

 

 

It has been seeded in the books and Dunk&Egg ('song of ice and fire', scrolls destroyed by Baelor and found by Rhaegar, 3 heads of the dragon, mystery of 3-headed dragon sigil, Targaryens being dreamers), some people were speculating about it 8 years ago: 

 

Dany's fever dream also heavily hints that this has been a plan of GRRM from the very beginning:

"Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew .…

wake the dragon …"

How should have he seeded it more when he intended it to be a mystery to be revealed in the last (or penultimate) book?

It's not like current people would know Aegon the Conqueror's motives.

Edited August 20, 2023 by csuszka1948

[csuszka1948]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Exactly. And for more reasons than those you’ve mentioned. For instance, if he had any inkling into the coming apocalyptic threat and did… fuck all, told no one, then he was not only a pathetic narcissistic arsehole but also incredibly stupid and irresponsible. 

 

 

 

Why would he tell it? You have to admit it sounds insane to outsiders.

Aegon tried to assimilate into the Westerosi culture, so telling that "a dragon dream showed me that the Others* will return and Westeros needs to be united under dragons to withstand them" wouldn't really help in this. 

 

Obviously, you could have Aegon tell his (seemingly) delusional ramblings to others... but then you wouldn't have a story. Why didn't Aegon tell about the Others is the same "why did the Starks forgot about the Others, even if their house name is warning that they will return?"... because the story needed it.

 

*myths of legends which are laughed out by adults

Edited August 20, 2023 by csuszka1948

[csuszka1948]

17 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I even suspect these battles since the Targs were far more deadly then most of the battles between rivaling kingdoms were. This may actually be one of the big reasons why the numbers of the Night's Watch plummeted in such a short time. Less regular fighting, but also far more deadly and take no prisoners. Whereas before there were more incursions, but less deadlier and more ransoming and taking prisoners who got to choose "the Wall".

 

 

 

According to Fire&Blood, there wasn't even a year of peace in Westeros before the Targaryen conquest, the Seven Kingdoms were in a state of constant flux and chaos. Ever since then, there were maybe 20 years of war out of 300 (even then not everywhere) and the population doubled, it's a huge improvement.

It's pretty clear that GRRM considers it a positive thing:

"Putting aside the specifics of the situation, and taking a long-range look, I think history shows that we do better when we join together into larger political units that embrace diversity, rather than building walls and breaking into smaller units. Alexander’s empire was better than the squabbling city-states of ancient Greece that preceded it (a pity he did not live long enough to make the union with Persia permanent, and twice a pity that his successors broke it all up into smaller countries to war on each other). The thirteen American colonies were wise to join together into one large country, despite their differences, than they would have been as thirteen small ones. The nations of Europe have been fighting each other for centuries; joining together into one great multi-national nation represents real progress." - GRRM

Edited August 20, 2023 by csuszka1948

[Craving Peaches]

5 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

there wasn't even a year of peace in Westeros before the Targaryen conquest,

That sounds like something the Targaryens would make up later as propaganda. If pre-unification Westeros was really that bad, I would expect to see Aegon I getting more support in the first place, and people at the time saying how bad it was.

[kissdbyfire]

21 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

Why would he tell it? You have to admit it sounds insane to outsiders.

Aegon tried to assimilate into the Westerosi culture, so telling that "a dragon dream showed me that the Others* will return and Westeros needs to be united under dragons to withstand them" wouldn't really help in this. 

 

Obviously, you could have Aegon tell his (seemingly) delusional ramblings to others... but then you wouldn't have a story. Why didn't Aegon tell about the Others is the same "why did the Starks forgot about the Others, even if their house name is warning that they will return?"... because the story needed it.

 

*myths of legends which are laughed out by adults

That’s a ridiculous argument. I’m obviously not saying he should have been yelling at everyone that ice zombies are going to destroy them all at some point in the future b/c he dreamt it. But he’s done nothing that someone w/ this type of knowledge would have done. Not. A. Thing. 
Also, what you propose are “seeds” aren’t really. Baelor whatever, Rhaegar whatever, there are no clear hints of Aegon I having anything to do w/ any of that.