I don't understand the point of being so vehemently anti-Stark

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:35 PM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Wait, am I not the only Catelyn-stan on this forum! I also love Catelyn as a character.

On a depressing note, I watched a youtube video recently where they dissected Catelyn from a psychological perspective, and one thing the youtuber kept saying was how Catelyn always expects something bad to happen. What made me sad is the youtuber was clear that this is not normal. The reason I never thought of Catelyn being particularly morose or negative in this way is.....it's how I think. I always expect things to go wrong, and I never realized that isn't how EVERYONE thinks. It could explain why others don't like Catelyn so much, while I find her relatable and good hearted.

Also, I think if anyone bothered to listen to her advice, things would have gone better for them. A lot of fans focus on her few questionable decisions, and not on how many times she advised people to do things, that had they done those things, stuff would have gone better for them (not sending Theon is a huge one). 

I'm the same way! I get it from my dad. And I don't consider myself a morose or negative person at all, and imo, you don't come off that way either. I tend to expect, or at least mentally prepare myself, for the worst case scenario in any situation. But..I always look for the positive, or "hidden blessings", whenever I'm going through something difficult. I like to do it for other people too if it means I can offer them encouragement. Also, Cat is a grieving widow and mother. Her teenage son is crowned king during a war, of course she's going to wire her brain to expect the worst. They all end up slaughtered at the Red Wedding, which proves she had every reason to think "negatively" so I don't know why this YouTube user is complaining about it. If she had had a more positive attitude they would have called her stupid and naive.  

Plus, Cat reminds me of my own mom. She's a feisty red head too (auburn).

Also, she has some of the best dialogues in the books!

Quote

"I take no joy in mead nor meat, and song and laughter have become suspicious strangers to me. I am a creature of grief and dust and bitter longings. There is an empty place within me where my heart was once." -ACoK Catelyn VII

Quote

"The singers make much of kings who valiantly die in battle, but your life is worth more than a sword. To me at least, who gave it to you." -ASoS Catelyn IV

Quote

"Show me the path I must walk and do not let me stumble in the dark places that lie ahead." -ACoK Catelyn IV

This is one of my favorites, as it's the most accurate representation of prayer in the books. And the whole scene is just beautiful.

Quote

"...Ned always said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the blade, though he never took any joy in the duty. But I would, oh, yes." -ACoK Catelyn VII

Omg. O.M.G. 

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 10/24/2023 at 11:31 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

YO, another Expanse fan?!

What's your favorite ship and faction? Mars, Earth, beltalowda?

What's this Expanse you all are talking about? A book series?

[sifth]

40 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

What's this Expanse you all are talking about? A book series?

GRRM’s assistant, made a sci-fi series, with a friend. It’s a really good book series and a great tv show.

[LongRider]

28 minutes ago, sifth said:

GRRM’s assistant, made a sci-fi series, with a friend. It’s a really good book series and a great tv show.

Daniel Abraham, who writes fantasy and science fiction and sometimes posts here.  He and Ty Frank wrote the Expanse series under the name of James S. A. Corey.  It's 10 books long, but a good read.  I was only able to see a few of the Expanse episodes of the TV series but liked what I saw.  Abraham also wrote the fantasy series, The Long Price Quartet and the Dagger and the Coin, which I have read and can rec' both.  He has a new series out, The Kithamar Series.  If you haven't read them and need something to read, check him out. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

What's this Expanse you all are talking about? A book series?

A book series and a TV show, I recommend them if you want a fairly realistic space story. The writing is nice, and the universe is really interesting. 

[KingAerys_II]

Show Daenerys is extremely entitled and arrogant, I used to like her in the first seasons, then the producers made this character that is totally different from the character of the book. 

The ending has no sense, she grew paranoid because of Jon, if she wished to marry him, it means he was no threat to her, her obsession to gain the Iron chair and her ridiculous titles repeated by Missandei became a nuisance. 

I liked the show for the dialogues of the Lannisters, Charles Dance, Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj Waldau, Lena Hadley and the Joffrey actor made a wonderful job

[Hugorfonics]

22 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Lena Hadley

I think Joff was a surprisingly good actor too, Jaime Tyrion and Tywin too. I also thought Sansa, Ramsay and Dany did a hell of a job. 
But Cersei? What a fucking tremendous actor (didn't dazzle me in 300 tho) 10/10 performance, the only accurate way to describe her acting is iconic. Tbh, A game of thrones is a lousy show despite the performance of some of the cast stated above, and some others. But if it weren't for Headey, the show would be unwatchable. 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I'm the same way! I get it from my dad. And I don't consider myself a morose or negative person at all, and imo, you don't come off that way either. I tend to expect, or at least mentally prepare myself, for the worst case scenario in any situation. But..I always look for the positive, or "hidden blessings", whenever I'm going through something difficult. I like to do it for other people too if it means I can offer them encouragement. Also, Cat is a grieving widow and mother. Her teenage son is crowned king during a war, of course she's going to wire her brain to expect the worst. They all end up slaughtered at the Red Wedding, which proves she had every reason to think "negatively" so I don't know why this YouTube user is complaining about it. If she had had a more positive attitude they would have called her stupid and naive.  

Plus, Cat reminds me of my own mom. She's a feisty red head too (auburn).

Also, she has some of the best dialogues in the books!

This is one of my favorites, as it's the most accurate representation of prayer in the books. And the whole scene is just beautiful.

Omg. O.M.G. 

George Martin can really make the words sing, when he puts his mind to it.

Catelyn is so tragic, and I can't understand the abuse she gets from some of the fandom.

Edited October 27, 2023 by SeanF

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

29 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

I liked the show for the dialogues of the Lannisters, Charles Dance, Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj Waldau, Lena Hadley and the Joffrey actor made a wonderful job

They're all so talented. ♥ Nik is adorable though. I was watching Black Hawk Down the other evening and kept chuckling at his US accent. 

I'm with you, @Hugorfonics, Jack is incredible. He's in a new thriller movie with Liam Neeson, I'll have to check it out.

41 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

A book series and a TV show, I recommend them if you want a fairly realistic space story. The writing is nice, and the universe is really interesting. 

Thank you!! It sounds so interesting. I've been needing some new books to read, this is perfect.

[SeanF]

13 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think Joff was a surprisingly good actor too, Jaime Tyrion and Tywin too. I also thought Sansa, Ramsay and Dany did a hell of a job. 
But Cersei? What a fucking tremendous actor (didn't dazzle me in 300 tho) 10/10 performance, the only accurate way to describe her acting is iconic. Tbh, A game of thrones is a lousy show despite the performance of some of the cast stated above, and some others. But if it weren't for Headey, the show would be unwatchable. 

Lena was too good, unfortunately, like Charles Dance.

Both played their characters so well that they were almost sympathetic, but neither character should be sympathetic.  Obviously, the show runners liked the Lannisters so much that they wanted viewers to sympathise with them (and of course, with St. Tyrion).  But, it's important to the plot that the Lannisters are the main human antagonists.

[Jaenara Belarys]

29 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Thank you!! It sounds so interesting. I've been needing some new books to read, this is perfect.

I feel that tbh, so many of the books I have I've reread literally a billion times.

[KingAerys_II]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think Joff was a surprisingly good actor too, Jaime Tyrion and Tywin too. I also thought Sansa, Ramsay and Dany did a hell of a job. 
But Cersei? What a fucking tremendous actor (didn't dazzle me in 300 tho) 10/10 performance, the only accurate way to describe her acting is iconic. Tbh, A game of thrones is a lousy show despite the performance of some of the cast stated above, and some others. But if it weren't for Headey, the show would be unwatchable. 

Charles Dance is top. 

In Hotd there were Matt Smith and Paddy that were incredible, he was too good to be Viserys I, he was not so tremendous as character in the series, he was an amazing king, in Fire and Blood Viserys is an imbecil. 

I think Aegon II actor has potential to be as good as Joffrey actor

Edited October 27, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Lena was too good, unfortunately, like Charles Dance.

Yea he was really good. Not the same level though. Headey put up like Pachino numbers. 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Both played their characters so well that they were almost sympathetic, but neither character should be sympathetic

Of course they are. Tywin maybe less so, privileged fuck wasn't privileged enough.  But the coldness of Dance is still enough, if not for me to cheer him on, at least feel something for him. Sentencing Tyrion and getting killed by him was pretty sad stuff.

Cersei is sympathetic. She's a victim and a fighter of the patriarchy. A good guy? Hell no. But a childless mother? We don't have to agree with a characters politics to recognize tragedy. 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Obviously, the show runners liked the Lannisters so much that they wanted viewers to sympathise with them (and of course, with St. Tyrion).  But, it's important to the plot that the Lannisters are the main human antagonists.

Tyrion really does get boring, there's a large gap between boring and saint, one that the book walked with ease, or waddled, but the show fell real flat.

But Tyrion is not an antagonist, Jaime hardly either and if Cersei is one it's mainly to her brothers. 

 

You know who did a decent job? Bean level even,  Mark Addy. And lots of the sympathy I feel, even pity, is reinforced with his acting and scenes like 

Quote

Robert reached for the flagon and refilled his cup. "You see what she does to me, Ned." The king seated himself, cradling his wine cup. "My loving wife. The mother of my children." The rage was gone from him now; in his eyes Ned saw something sad and scared. "I should not have hit her. That was not … that was not kingly."

But Addy was the second choice, Brian Cox, Mr. Logan Roy himself, one of the scariest actors I've ever seen would have totally changed the dynamic if he was the one honoring her

Quote

."What a jape the gods have made of us two," she said. "By all rights, you ought to be in skirts and me in mail."

Purple with rage, the king lashed out, a vicious backhand blow to the side of the head. She stumbled against the table and fell hard, yet Cersei Lannister did not cry out. Her slender fingers brushed her cheek, where the pale smooth skin was already reddening. On the morrow the bruise would cover half her face. "I shall wear this as a badge of honor," she announced.

"Wear it in silence, or I'll honor you again," Robert vowed.

Which would totally reinforce that Cersei is super sympathetic even without Headeys star performance.  (Not that Addy wasn't scary, he was, but also a bit stuck. Like he wasn't in to it, not like the mad tyrant sociopath Logan Roy would.  (Like when he hit his grandson!)

[Alester Florent]

54 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

You know who did a decent job? Bean level even,  Mark Addy. And lots of the sympathy I feel, even pity, is reinforced with his acting and scenes like 

But Addy was the second choice, Brian Cox, Mr. Logan Roy himself, one of the scariest actors I've ever seen would have totally changed the dynamic if he was the one honoring her

Which would totally reinforce that Cersei is super sympathetic even without Headeys star performance.  (Not that Addy wasn't scary, he was, but also a bit stuck. Like he wasn't in to it, not like the mad tyrant sociopath Logan Roy would.  (Like when he hit his grandson!)

HEY! HEY! YOU DO NOT HIT HIM!

Yeah I know that's a different scene but seeing Ken spring into action after spending the whole season as a husk of a person, a skull, as Stuey put it, hanging from Logan's belt, was really something. What a show. 

But nah. I think Addy was perfectly cast. Apart from anything else, I think Brian Cox was just too old, even at the time. And I worry we'd have got something too close to his Agamemnon for comfort, surely his worst ever performance.

Charles Dance was the standout for me, and while there are various reasons the show went full steam ahead to Suck Station after he left, the absence if his commanding presence was certainly part of it. S1 hardly put a foot wrong in its casting. Renly is the only one I take serious issue with and that was more a broader problem of characterisation.

 

[Hugorfonics]

37 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

HEY! HEY! YOU DO NOT HIT HIM!

Yeah I know that's a different scene but seeing Ken spring into action after spending the whole season as a husk of a person, a skull, as Stuey put it, hanging from Logan's belt, was really something. What a show. 

But nah. I think Addy was perfectly cast. Apart from anything else, I think Brian Cox was just too old, even at the time. And I worry we'd have got something too close to his Agamemnon for comfort, surely his worst ever performance.

Charles Dance was the standout for me, and while there are various reasons the show went full steam ahead to Suck Station after he left, the absence if his commanding presence was certainly part of it. S1 hardly put a foot wrong in its casting. Renly is the only one I take serious issue with and that was more a broader problem of characterisation.

 

Lol, I think seeing Rome getting hit maybe triggered something when he saw his song get hit too. And Ken's quote is pretty good there too "What the FUCK is wrong with you?"  ( I actually think that Iverson's hit is what triggered Ken to take out his dad and then when his dad said the waiter was "not a real person" like all those girls reactivated him to try to take out his dad again. I do think Ken thought he was a good person, honestly. But of course he wasnt and never was.) Truly a fantastic show.

Wasnt he the bad guy in Borne? Agamenon wasnt worse than that lol. Its really the dialogue too that can bring an actor into overdrive which early agot did have, so idk, just dye his hair black and I think he'd have been superb. I do like Addy but I like to think what coulda been, like how the first choice for Anakin Skywalker was Leo Dicaprio instead of Christonson