frenin Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, Kal-L said: Where was it said ? I never read about it One of his Kingsguards tell him that. 9 minutes ago, Kal-L said: And ? You don't need to be part of the Kingsguard to be a great warrior, in fact some of them can be lame compared to others knights. Barristan Selmy is an exception, not the norm. No but you need to be noted to be a great warrior to be one and Jaeharys' victims were cocky but not particularly great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-L Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, frenin said: One of his Kingsguards tell him that. I have the quote of his Master-at-arm telling that he'd bet on him against Maegor. Is that what you were referring to ? 7 minutes ago, frenin said: No but you need to be noted to be a great warrior to be one and Jaeharys' victims were cocky but not particularly great. Lord Rogar's brother was noted to be a great warrior apparently, yet Jaehaerys got an easier time beating him than much more renowned warrior has had to beat their foes (Arthur Dayne vs the smiling knight for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, Kal-L said: I have the quote of his Master-at-arm telling that he'd bet on him against Maegor. Is that what you were referring to ? Wasn't he a Kingsguard? 7 minutes ago, Kal-L said: Lord Rogar's brother was noted to be a great warrior apparently He was reported to be dangerous but I don't remember nothing on him being a great warrior. Only Rogar. 8 minutes ago, Kal-L said: yet Jaehaerys got an easier time beating him than much more renowned warrior has had to beat their foes (Arthur Dayne vs the smiling knight for example). This is not dragon ball and the smiling knight was described as truly dangerous and mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, James Steller said: Putting aside what we’ve seen, how strong is Valyrian steel supposed to be in the books? Isn't it suppose to be the strongest metal in the series and insanely sharp and dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-L Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, frenin said: Wasn't he a Kingsguard? No, he was his master-at-arms and so supposedly the most able to make an assessment on his skills. 1 hour ago, frenin said: He was reported to be dangerous but I don't remember nothing on him being a great warrior. Only Rogar. What is a dangerous foe if not a great warrior ? 1 hour ago, frenin said: This is not dragon ball and the smiling knight was described as truly dangerous and mad. Not understood your dragon ball claim. Explain. Quote the smiling knight was described as truly dangerous and mad. So was Borys Baratheon. Edited July 25, 2023 by Kal-L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 50 minutes ago, Kal-L said: No, he was his master-at-arms and so supposedly the most able to make an assessment on his skills. Fair enough, same thing. 50 minutes ago, Kal-L said: What is a dangerous foe if not a great warrior ? Cunning, ruthless yadda yadda yadda? Tywin is certainly a dangerous man and I've yet anyone who says he's a great warrior. Rogar said that he was more dangerous than their little brother. 52 minutes ago, Kal-L said: Not understood your dragon ball claim. Explain. The correlation is flawed. 52 minutes ago, Kal-L said: So was Borys Baratheon. No he wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) I just approached the last comment on the first page, and I am confused. Where do people get this idea that Valyrian Steel cuts thru armor so easily? I don't remember reading this. I do remember that Valyrian Steel is light, stronger, and keeps an edge better than normal steel, but I don't remember ever reading this. I always equated Valyrian Steel to something like the knives you see being sold on TV versus the cheap stuff you buy at Walmart. Edited July 25, 2023 by Back in Black-Snow typo, spelling astarkchoice and frenin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back in Black-Snow Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, frenin said: This is not dragon ball and the smiling knight was described as truly dangerous and mad. I am sorry but this made me laugh. It reminded me of a question a co-worker asked another co-worker earlier this morning: He asked, "What game are you playing (on his phone)? Dragon Ball?" The other guy asks, "What game is that?" And so he answered with, "Dragon balls across your face." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-L Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, frenin said: Fair enough, same thing. Sure, but you're losing the purpose of my point. Reread our discussion, I brought it to know if that was the quote about Jaehaerys's skills you were referring to. Apparently it was, so to go back to our discussion, I fail to see how the King's master-at-arms' words imply he could easily cut down others great foes or much younger knights. 4 hours ago, frenin said: The correlation is flawed. How is it flawed ? Jaehaerys is literally the only warrior (not even a notorious one) cutting great foes like he owned a lightsaber. Edited July 25, 2023 by Kal-L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 17 hours ago, Back in Black-Snow said: I just approached the last comment on the first page, and I am confused. Where do people get this idea that Valyrian Steel cuts thru armor so easily? It is complete fancanon partially fueled by the fact that Martin tends to highlight when there is Valyrian swords at play but yeah, valyrian swords in and on itself won't make you Barristan. 14 hours ago, Kal-L said: Sure, but you're losing the purpose of my point. Reread our discussion, I brought it to know if that was the quote about Jaehaerys's skills you were referring to. My point is that Jaeharys is explicitly noted as a good warrior. Unlike Borys. 14 hours ago, Kal-L said: How is it flawed ? Because one has nothing to do with the other. You're just taking valyrian swords and from then believing all context must be irrelevant. 14 hours ago, Kal-L said: Jaehaerys is literally the only warrior (not even a notorious one) cutting great foes like he owned a lightsaber. What great foe did he cut like he owned a lightsaber? You're making up that Borys Baratheon was "a great foe" and in his trial by combat, Jaeharys strategy was simply tired his rival out till he was too weak to defend himself, his sword mattered little and less, maybe his shield was made of valyrian sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) Nothing changes. They fought on horseback and Bob had a big hammer that caved Rhaegar’s chest in. If they fought on foot perhaps VS might have given some advantage but even then warhammer, especially a warhammer so big and heavy that Ned can barely lift, beats sword, Valyrian or not. Perhaps if he had an Other sword. Edited July 27, 2023 by Corvo the Crow astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) On 7/25/2023 at 4:23 PM, Back in Black-Snow said: I just approached the last comment on the first page, and I am confused. Where do people get this idea that Valyrian Steel cuts thru armor so easily? I don't remember reading this. I do remember that Valyrian Steel is light, stronger, and keeps an edge better than normal steel, but I don't remember ever reading this. I always equated Valyrian Steel to something like the knives you see being sold on TV versus the cheap stuff you buy at Walmart. Don’t buy the knives you see on tv. There are much, much better knives. Re; Valyrian steel, a couple points: 1) It was originally supposed to be ~ Damascus steel, but I think over time it’s been incrementally gaining ~ magical properties. 2) George gets asked who the best fighters ever were, and pretty much always says Jaime vs. Arthur Dayne. And when asked who would win, he always says that Dawn would make the difference. So he’s saying when two great fighters are evenly matched, Valyrian steel would be the decisive factor. But does that mean with BF Rhaegar automatically wins? No, because Barristan’s comment about fights between fairly comparable fighters can turn on the slightest misfortune still applies. A stone under your foot turns, an adjacent fight knocks you off balance at a crucial second, etc. So it’s just an edge. You’d be smarter to bet on Rhaegar, but only by a little more than you’d be wrong, so either way don’t bet big. Edited July 27, 2023 by James Arryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Nothing changes. They fought on horseback and Bob had a big hammer that caved Rhaegar’s chest in. If they fought on foot perhaps VS might have given some advantage but even then warhammer, especially a warhammer so big and heavy that Ned can barely lift, beats sword, Valyrian or not. Perhaps if he had an Other sword. I had assumed they started on horse then ended on foot Rhaegar was the better jouster so prob dehorses the big man who probably was able to smash rhaegars horse and get him down. Then its 2 skilled fighters with speed vs strength...them going ankle/knee deep into the trident after an hour or so of fighting (when they would already be slowing down) would favour robert greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 11 hours ago, astarkchoice said: I had assumed they started on horse then ended on foot Rhaegar was the better jouster so prob dehorses the big man who probably was able to smash rhaegars horse and get him down. Then its 2 skilled fighters with speed vs strength...them going ankle/knee deep into the trident after an hour or so of fighting (when they would already be slowing down) would favour robert greatly. No it’s all those pictures portraying them on foot. Falling from your horse in a river crossing would’ve been a death sentence. In fact didn’t Frederick Barbarossa die that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: In fact didn’t Frederick Barbarossa die that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryeninkingslanding Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 "The battle screamed about Lord Robert and Prince Rhaegar both, and by the will of the gods, or by chance-or perhaps by design-they met amidst the shallows of the ford. The two knights fought valiantly upon their destriers, according to all accounts. For despite his crimes, Prince Rhaegar was no coward" They fought on horseback not on foot. I not sure their is anything but fan art to support they fought on foot. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: No it’s all those pictures portraying them on foot. Falling from your horse in a river crossing would’ve been a death sentence. In fact didn’t Frederick Barbarossa die that way? I had assumed theyd ended up in the river and started elsewhere...1 hr of 2 men in horseback would be daft,once the lances are gone its basicaly trading blow for blow for an hr (something rhaegar couldnt do) On foot makes more sense but of the sources say otherwise Yeah he supposedly jumped.into a cold river after a scorching hot day riding, as an old man it was the end of him. It was saladin's luckiest day ever as barbarossa had a (probably inflated) massive host comming for a crusade (100k sourced say but more likely 40-20k ) Some of his knights saw it as a sign from god and converted to islam shortly after!!!! Edited July 27, 2023 by astarkchoice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 3:55 PM, Targaryeninkingslanding said: "The battle screamed about Lord Robert and Prince Rhaegar both, and by the will of the gods, or by chance-or perhaps by design-they met amidst the shallows of the ford. The two knights fought valiantly upon their destriers, according to all accounts. For despite his crimes, Prince Rhaegar was no coward" They fought on horseback not on foot. I not sure their is anything but fan art to support they fought on foot. I kept having the wrong impression for years and it was 100% down to the artwork. Dunno why, but it translates to art so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegor_the_Cool Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 3:04 PM, Corvo the Crow said: No it’s all those pictures portraying them on foot. Falling from your horse in a river crossing would’ve been a death sentence. In fact didn’t Frederick Barbarossa die that way? Dude you just blew my mind cuz you are absolutely right lol. I’ve always pictured it on foot… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Maegor Targaryen, Aemon Targaryen, Daemon Blackfyre are better fighters than Rhaegar. Rhaegar was very good, anyway, he badly injured Robert during the Battle of the Trident, but Rhaegar wielding Dark Sister or Blackfyre would have major chances, Valyrian Steel cuts deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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