Baldur's Gate 3: On the Highway to the Nine Hells

[karaddin]

It's a lot less punishing on the xp front than D:OS2 was, I capped out with at least half of act 3 remaining. Now getting those levels earlier will still certainly help with some of the fights, you're just not going to get stuck below cap because you skipped some things at the start.

[Gorn]

XP gain and cap are surprisingly easy to get wrong in an RPG, and I respect developers who get it right without using level scaling as a crutch.

For example, I hit the XP and level cap about halfway through Pillars of Eternity 2, which killed the entire sense of progression for me. On the other hand, I never hit the XP caps in BG1 and BG2, and I have no idea how people even manage to do that.

[Werthead]

4 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Gatelike?!

Games like Baldur's Gate, like roguelikes are games like Rogue.

I've seen some people trying to rebrand "CRPGs" (Computer Roleplaying Games) as "Classic Roleplaying Games" for that purpose but they can sod off. Classic RPGs are Ultima, Wizardry, Might & Magic, not something almost 20 years younger like BG.

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Being now (I suspect) near the end, I can't but think that the game either needed to be longer (or shorter). As it is act III just feels way to cramped in a way that act I und act II don't (for me).

Spoiler

Having act III be about dealing with Orrin and Gortash, the Emperor/Orpheus situation and the Elder Brain is a bit two much. Add in the situation with Duke Ravenguard, Raphael, Shadowheart, Astarion, Minsc and Jaheira, etc., and it feels like there really isn't enough room for all those plots threats to be really resolved in a satisfying way.

Dealing with Orrin was fine, but I suspect that this might have been in part because I played as the Dark Urge. The investigation could have been a bit more involved though, because, as it is, you can just follow the quest markers.

On the other hand I expected that dealing with Gortash would have involved getting involved in Baldurian politics and subterfuge since Gortash appears to such an iron grip on the city. And yet I can just waltz into the Steel Watch foundry through the front entrance and trash his robots without any real repercussions. The same goes for freeing Councilor Florrick. Dragon Age Origins did it better in my opinion.

The Gortash should have been an entirely new act taking place in the Upper City. Even if it does end up being much shorter than the other, I think separating it from the Bhaal stuff in the Lower City and moving some of the side stuff there also would have done the story some good.

Alternatively they should have reduced the number of antagonists we deal with in the story and left some for a sequel/expansion.

 

[Werthead]

I believe the general consensus is that Act III is the biggest act in the game, but only if you do certain objectives in Act I, which opens up certain sequel quests in Act III. If you missed or bailed on those quests, then Act III becomes a lot shorter.

It doesn't help that the game doesn't delineate the acts well: if you take the Mountain Pass you get the "you are passing a point of no return" message that makes it feel like  Act II is starting, but you don't get the actual achievement for beating Act I until you get to Moonrise Towers. But that makes Act II super-short. Most people seem to count Mountain Pass and the Underdark (a lot of people only do one of the two routes and don't realise you can do both; in particular, you really need to do the creche near the start of the Mountain Pass to make Lae'zel's story make sense, even if you then cross back into the Underdark) and Moonrise Towers as all Act II, which makes it at least a bit more equal in length to Act I if you do all of the quests and optional side-content.

I've reached Grymforge and am at 32 hours. Making solid progress each evening. Just reached the massive fight with Nere and half the duergar city and it's almost winnable but I keep falling short with like 1 or 2 guys left who manage to finish me off. Need to re-evaluate.

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

It doesn't help that the game doesn't delineate the acts well: if you take the Mountain Pass you get the "you are passing a point of no return" message that makes it feel like  Act II is starting, but you don't get the actual achievement for beating Act I until you get to Moonrise Towers. But that makes Act II super-short. Most people seem to count Mountain Pass and the Underdark (a lot of people only do one of the two routes and don't realise you can do both; in particular, you really need to do the creche near the start of the Mountain Pass to make Lae'zel's story make sense, even if you then cross back into the Underdark) and Moonrise Towers as all Act II, which makes it at least a bit more equal in length to Act I if you do all of the quests and optional side-content.

Really? I entered the Shadowlands through Grymforge and got the achievement for beating act 1 right away and later did the creche before Moonrise Towers.

[IlyaP]

16 minutes ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

Really? I entered the Shadowlands through Grymforge and got the achievement for beating act 1 right away and later did the creche before Moonrise Towers.

I'm in the Underdark right now as well, trying to find Lenore. I've given up on ever finding this creche, as I have simply no idea where it is located.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

Really? I entered the Shadowlands through Grymforge and got the achievement for beating act 1 right away and later did the creche before Moonrise Towers.

Yeah some wires gave gotten crossed for Wert and I understand why - the elevator at Grymforge seems like it's going to take you to Moonrise but it doesn't, it just takes you to the shadow cursed lands which is act 2. It also doesn't stop you going back to act 1 yet, just causes some quests to end (much like finishing the goblin camp does in act 1), the actual point which closes off act 1 is a point of no return near the end of act 2 (story wise, not geographically) which then sends you to Moonrise for the end of the act. You can (and should) go to Moonrise prior to that though, so it's less linear than it sounds if you're seeing an overview of what happens.

Act 2 is immediately inaccessible after starting Act 3.

After having sat with it for quite a while I'm also a bit critical of Act 3 - some of the set pieces in it are great and there's an absolute ton of side content but the main story did feel lacking there. 

Spoiler

Part of the problem is that Gortash and Orin felt a lot less imposing to me than Ketheric. Part of the problem was that I thought Baldur's Gate would open and the upper city would be an extension of the lower city, potentially with an act 4 there but it's not.

50 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

I'm in the Underdark right now as well, trying to find Lenore. I've given up on ever finding this creche, as I have simply no idea where it is located.

It's across the bridge after that Githyanki patrol fight. There's some exploration on the other side but that's the area.

[IlyaP]

49 minutes ago, karaddin said:

It's across the bridge after that Githyanki patrol fight. There's some exploration on the other side but that's the area.

The destroyed bridge that's seemingly impossible to cross?!

[karaddin]

Just now, IlyaP said:

The destroyed bridge that's seemingly impossible to cross?!

There's a second bridge to the left when you're looking at the destroyed one

[IlyaP]

@karaddin I've just gone up the elevator to the Moonshine tower. I'm guessing at this point I should have Shadowheart in my group? 

[Corvinus85]

Sooo, Lae'zel is missing from my game, or at least she's not where you're supposed to find her. The internet says she's being held in a cage by a couple of tieflings. I found 2 dead tieflings in that location, no Lae'zel and no cage, although there is a smashed cage somewhat close by. If you don't get one of your companions in the early stages, does the game change their location?

And if your perception fails to reveal a stash, is there any way to try again? There was a Goblin stash I tried to find, all perceptions failed when I got near, can't activate it again. I tried doing a long rest but it still won't activate the perception roll again.

[IlyaP]

Is that the thing that @karaddin mentioned, where if you rest through something, the game moves on without you?

[karaddin]

Yeah I'm not sure what the trigger for that happening with Lae'zel would be, but definitely sounds like you passed a quest trigger point and you've missed her. Checked the wiki and apparently it's tied to long resting before you find her (possibly takes multiple times), you can find her again at the Githyanki patrol - she might be dead but apparently you can rez her if so.

2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

@karaddin I've just gone up the elevator to the Moonshine tower. I'm guessing at this point I should have Shadowheart in my group? 

Shadowheart has a lot in act 2 yeah. Especially when you go into a mausoleum, so make sure you have her then at least.

[IlyaP]

45 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Yeah I'm not sure what the trigger for that happening with Lae'zel would be, but definitely sounds like you passed a quest trigger point and you've missed her. Checked the wiki and apparently it's tied to long resting before you find her (possibly takes multiple times), you can find her again at the Githyanki patrol - she might be dead but apparently you can rez her if so.

This is a rather...interesting design choice. Surely there's got to be a way to let gamers know that they might miss out on something if they perform a certain action, early on in the game? 

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Werthead said:

. Need to re-evaluate.

I didn't free the drow until I killed the slavers. Also, take the high ground. 

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Another thing that is disappointing is the end of Astarion's and Karlach's personal quest.

Spoiler

Astarion's quest ended with me just strolling into his master's incredibly small estate and into the dungeon. There was no reconnaissance required, there were no elaborate puzzles and no stealth or deception elements, just one medium fight and then the boss. The one thing that saves it is the direction and the excellent performance of Astarion's voice actor.

Karlach's quest basically ends in early/middle of chapter two when you manage too cool down her engine. If you didn't romance her, like I did, she gets some moments in Baldur's Gate itself, but the possibility that her heart might be fixed is never brought up again. Despite that you still find infernal iron and variants thereof. There is even an event where one of the Steel Watch identifies her as a defective and outdated model providing a potential lead, but the game doesn't follow up on it. I expected that Gortash would offer to try to fix Karlach in exchange for letting him go alive or allying with him, however nothing came and in the end - after killing him- Karlach got upset for while and then almost immediately accepted her fate.

 

[karaddin]

Yeah that second one is far and away my biggest gripe. Not sure if you've finished now but it didn't improve after what you've said in mine.

[Arakasi]

Hope to get into this more this weekend but the awful console controls/ui and the fact it turns my steam deck into a toaster isn’t helping. I take it most people here are playing on PC?

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

So I finally finished it

Spoiler

- The evolution of the Elder Brain into the Nether Brain, reveal that it had controlled our actions and the actions of the antagonists all the time, and that a mindflayer is now necessary to control it could have been foreshadowed better. As it is this twist was only foreseeable because such a twist is to be expected, not because of its set up.

- I choose to free Orpheus the Gith prince, which let the Emperor immediately turning on me and joining up with the Netherbrain. He does not even try to justify it as him searching for another way to bring it down, he just does a 180 from his apparent goals until this point.

- Orpheus then choose to become a Mindflayer which really didn't mean much

- the scene where we return to find the allies we made throughout the city was nice, although it didn't come with an opportunity to swap out party members

- there was a sequence which involved the party ascending down a narrow way towards the brain while getting fired upon by spaceship and harassed by enemies spawning out of nowhere. I cheesed it because it was just bs,

- ´the final fight atop the Netherbrain was suitably epic and even though it involved hitherto unused mechanics, it didn't feel to gimmicky.

- Orpheus ordered the brain to destroy itself and it crashed into the river. I am thankful that there was no attempt at building suspense as to whether the group survived the crash or not

- Orpheus asked me to kill him after giving Lae'zel his dragon and charging her with freeing the Githyanki from Vlaakith's control, which, I think, finished her character arc nicely

- Wyll convinced Karlach to join him in fighting in Avernus. A suitably ending for him and probably the best we could get for Karlach with her story being so lackluster

- Gale didn't go mad with power and resolved to give the crown to Mystra

- Shadowheart, Halsin. Jaheira and Minsk got nothing which was to be expected. SH is probably the companion with the most focus and the other three existed for more or less just for pandering

- Astarion became a regular vampire again, starting to burn in the sun and almost comically ran off.I  basically did not use him, but I suspect that people who got attached will hate this.

- And that really was it. Just a few short conversations at the beach followed by a short post-credits scene.

Yeah the game is still very good, but it's clear that they, as should have been expected, ran out of time and/or money at the end and as a result act III ended up being to cramped and with no real epilogue, not even a slideshow. I wonder if they should have left the final villain for an expansion and used the resources to expand act III. It even would have given them an excuse to raise the level cap.

Still the game is still very much worth the time and money, a good 8.5 8/10

Edited August 30, 2023 by ASOIAFrelatedusername