Are the weirwoods actually one gigantic organism ?

[Tyrosh Lannister]

Are the weirwoods actually one massive organism ? They're all connected to each other through their deep root network.

They're like Pando tree- a clonal colony of 'trees' that is actually just one organism connected through their massive underground root system 

Weirwoods with faces are used to see things that happened in the past or the present. They can also be used to store information (things people have seen) in the weirwood roots network. 

Jaime once fell asleep on a weirwood tree stump. But he still gets a magical dream . That's because the tree isn't actually dead. It's alive. Only the portion that comes out of the earth was chopped off. The stump is connected to the magical roots that also contain memories - things people have seen. 

Brans weirwood cave has a lot of roots that run deep beneath the surface. They actually connect to other weirwood 'trees'.

 

Besides, we haven't seen any weirwood seeds. They don't exist. That CoTF tells bran the paste he was given to eat contains weirwood seeds. She could be lying . 

 

Anyways, this also means the COTF will always have access to the sights and memories from tens of thousands of years ago and all the years between - whatever the weirwoods have seen with their faces. No doubt their genocide at the hands of the first men and andals would always be fresh in their minds. 

 

 

 

[sweetsunray]

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Are the weirwoods actually one massive organism ? They're all connected to each other through their deep root network.

Perhaps they are several massive organisms. Bit of both?

 

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Weirwoods with faces are used to see things that happened in the past or the present.

The weirwoods are an initial step. First he'll see via his godswood tree at WF. Then other trees. But eventually he won't even need to see through the eyes of a tree anymore.

Quote

"Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. [...] A weirwood will live forever if left undisturbed. To them seasons pass in the flutter of a moth's wing, and past, present, and future are one. Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carved eyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use … but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves."

The eyes/faces are carved into the heart trees to "awaken" the trees. I suspect this is George's idea that when you damaging bark of a tree it will release sap to protect the "wound" and from parasites using it to get inside. In a gardener conceptual sense it would "harden" a tree and gear up its defenses. In the case of weirwoods, it makes them more "watchful" of their surroundings "quicker".

Such a tree would be easier for a new greenseer to train with. A master greenseer can see beyond that. Probably roots may suffice, and the roots undoubtedly go deep and wide. And roots of plantlife are known to communicate with one another via nutrients released underground, even across species, etc.

Note that BR refers to weirwoods as "them", not "the weirwood".

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

They can also be used to store information (things people have seen) in the weirwood roots network. 

Yes they can. They are each an Alexandrian library so to speak. Each of them "first witnesses". And as a tree does not have a "brain" the memories can be stored most likely in whichever part of the tree, including roots.

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Jaime once fell asleep on a weirwood tree stump. But he still gets a magical dream . That's because the tree isn't actually dead. It's alive. Only the portion that comes out of the earth was chopped off. The stump is connected to the magical roots that also contain memories - things people have seen.

But in Jaime's case he's not seeing the past or a memory. He dreams about future possibilities. He has what appears to be a "green dream". I suspect he may be a "green dreamer" like Jojen or Ghost of HH. He just never knew it and was never trained. If a new greenseer needs a woken up weirwood (one with eyes/face) to train with, then a new green dreamer needs a weirwood or stump (perhaps even a weirwood bed is enough) to train with initially. Eventually they won't really need that item or stump or a tree anymore to "green dream" (Jojen does not seem to), but being around weirwood or roots may still amplify it. Which may be why Ghost of HH sleeps in the chopped weirwood grove to have "green dreams", why Jojen is certain he won't die in the godswood of the WF the day the wolves threaten him and his sister, but seems to give up once he's at BR's cave.

Think of this as with skinchanging: practice makes perfect. The talent is there with Jaime imo, but without awareness of it and without practice it will be underdeveloped.

Green dreaming is the talent that is tied to seeing the "future"... BR makes an allusion to a being like a weirwood that basically lives forever, our future, may seem like its present. But future seeing seems only a talent reserved for green dreamers. And since the future is not entirely "set" it requires a different state than "seeing through the eyes of a tree" to access flashes of the potential future. 

Green dreamers also would not require a tree with eyes to start training, because since they are seeing flashes of the potential future, the root system will suffice, since an acorn can dream of being an oak tree.

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Besides, we haven't seen any weirwood seeds. They don't exist. That CoTF tells bran the paste he was given to eat contains weirwood seeds. She could be lying . 

Something that has such a long lifespan and appears to grow or potentially regrow a new shoot on its surviving root system would rarely "bloom". On top of that seasons aren't annual in this world. Maybe a weirwood blooms only once in its life (like an agave, but agaves die after their one time bloom), or every spring (which might vary between 5 - 20 years, just spitballing). None of the Stark children seemed to have lived long enough to remember a spring well enough, though Jon might.  And the Starks would be the sole ones possibly paying attention to it, if it were to bloom. But they also wouldn't know its significance. In short, we haven't seen spring in asoiaf yet. It was late summer in aGoT, fall in the rest of the series, until perhaps the last month of the adwd timeline when winter arrived. We haven't seen any spring, so we wouldn't have seen a weirwood bloom or shed seeds.

George uses such a concept when it comes to the CotF: they live longer but reproduce less than humans.

I don't think the CotF would be lying, because it's pointless to lie to a greenseer. He'll find out the truth eventually. As you already mentioned: wierwoods have eternal memories. CotF live longer than humans and their life is permeated with this knowledge that trees "see", skinchangers "see" and that greenseers can access information of any given moment of the past wherever they wish. They see no point in lying with an awareness of living surrounded by basically an ever lasting spy network imho. Hence they sing the True Tongue. At worst I can see them lie by ommission (refraining from mentioning something) and by evasion through telling something that is true but not relevant (jingling keys).

So, yes, when Leaf tells Bran those are weirwood seeds, I believe her.  

6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Anyways, this also means the COTF will always have access to the sights and memories from tens of thousands of years ago and all the years between - whatever the weirwoods have seen with their faces. No doubt their genocide at the hands of the first men and andals would always be fresh in their minds. 

Yes, cotf greenseers can access the past of the wars before the pact. They can also access wars where people sacrificed their lives beside them against Andals. And times when they lived alongside each other in peace. And they have green dreamers who can see their own species/race's future. They know that the future is for mankind, not themselves. They seemed to have been more and more aware of this after the Andal invasion and Starks were caught up in the War Across the Water. Their choice was to retreat, separate themselves from the drama of the short lives of mankind. To elongate their existence for as long as possible until their knowledge and teachings were required against the Others. They know they are a doomed race, which is why they sing sad songs. There will be a spring for mankind, but not for cotf.

Edited August 27, 2023 by sweetsunray

[Castellan]

I personally am not the kind of reader who needs a 'scientific' (fantasy style) explanation for the weirwoods. But I suppose a root network is a feasible idea. You set me thinking. If there are roots all over Westeros then why do we see no new weirwoods except the one Brienne sees as she leaves the Whispers? It must be possible if not to wipe them out completely then to drastically reduce the size of the root system of a clonal plant and/or break it up into smaller seperate colonies. The Blackwoods think the Brackens poisoned their tree, so it seems there is another idea around about how they could be destroyed, besides just felling them.

And perhaps the COTF know how to get information from the trees, but humans, unless they are greenseers seem to get vague muddled messages. Theon gets a faint trace of Bran and leaves falling, and Jaime's dream is clearly partly a human dream with its own motivations but with bits of stuff from the weirwood mixed in. They are mostly about the future - the past events seem like his own dream, but touches such as Tywin giving him the sword, are from the future.

It'd be interesting to see if the Blackwood's practically fossilised tree ever shows signs of these powers in the story.

[Loose Bolt]

13 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Perhaps they are several massive organisms. Bit of both?

 

It is also possible that those organisms play their own games. For instance Godswoods of Dreadfort and Winterfell had played their own game of roots by using humans as their agents.

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said:

It is also possible that those organisms play their own games. For instance Godswoods of Dreadfort and Winterfell had played their own game of roots by using humans as their agents.

Anything in the text that points to it?

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

It is also possible that those organisms play their own games. For instance Godswoods of Dreadfort and Winterfell had played their own game of roots by using humans as their agents.

The Dreadfort's flaying implies to me they envy the skinchanging ability. People are only jealous or envious of something that they don't possess themselves. And they are indeed shown to be envious: first destroying what they can't have, then taking it anyway with a fake bride.

But if you can't skinchange, then you never had greenseers, and thus could never be influenced in such a way. And thus hypothesis drops dead in the water.

I also don't see the point of magical large tree organism (that can potentially live forever) fight its fellow species organism, not in a continent the size of South America. Especially when at least one of those people worships you and protects your species.

If there is any type of manipulation involved (and I say big "if"), it would be towards converting an enemy into worshiping it, which is a manipulation that he has used a few times in earlier writing, but the manipulating entity is always pure "red". Once he tried to criticise naive hobby anthropology belief that cutesy furry tribes living in nature are some golden age of unspoiled peace and innocense. But later in life he moved to beings with everlasting life seeking natural human death and decay in green marshes. George never really went out of his way to portray the cotf as cutesy enlightened pacifist beings to begin with as he does in Seven Times Never Kill a Man. Instead he goes out of his way to portray them as long dead and as hunters (spearheads) who warred with people before reaching a peace (so not pacifist) as well as having had their wars with the giants. Hence, I don't see the "red pyramid" (not a tree) manipulation being applied to weirwoods or cotf here. The "put a red spicy hot parasite/alien" on your head and commit suicide (while young and in love) with a smile of a Song For Lya isn't applicable either for the cotf or Bloodraven. The tree instead reverses this: prolongs BR's life, but not into infinity. BR is like Kleronomas in his green marsh (The Glass Flower) after he becomes the master of the game, towards the end of his life, training the next master of the game before his delayed but longed for death. Unlike Cyrain he's not pomising Bran a fresh new body with working legs either.

[Kienn]

No.

If all the weirwoods were only one weirwood then the CotF wouldn’t have cared that the First Men chopped off a few old unnecessary appendages nor that the Andals cauterized a few more.

[Sandy Clegg]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:19 AM, Kienn said:

No.

If all the weirwoods were only one weirwood then the CotF wouldn’t have cared that the First Men chopped off a few old unnecessary appendages nor that the Andals cauterized a few more.

Uh, I dunno. I'm one entity but if someone started hacking away my fingers and toes I'd kind of want them to desist!

[the trees have eyes]

The weirwoods are widely spread over thousands of miles and are present in locations like the Isle of Faces where the connection of one grove to another seems physically impossible.  Like with Aspens a grove of weirwoods is linked by one root system but different groves are different colonies.  What ties the weirnet together are the green seers and / or enthroned singers (really depends on whether the enthroned singers are repositories of that grove's ancestor memories and that the green seers link the groves or whether the enthroned singers are the green seers). 

I imagine losing a colony has a huge impact as ancestor memories and fragments of those ancestors themselves "go dark".  I suppose for the enthroned singers or greenseers who could project their consciousness into distant groves this would be traumatic but for the regular singers it would be more of a cultural or psychological violation than the same as losing a part of your own physical body.  But if you knew the spirits of your ancestors lives on in some way - until some barbarians turned up and started murdering them - you wouldn't need to experience the slaughter at first hand to pick up weapons and fight.

[The Commentator]

Connected but not one organism. Blended consciousness who share memories across a root system.  The Starks, weirwoods, ice, darkness, and dire wolves are the savage nature in man. They are pack animals who resist laws, order, and progress.  They value freedom and chaos because they are primal and not fit for civilization.  They are the enemies of the Targaryens. The Targaryens bring order, laws, rules, discipline, and structure.  

[Hippocras]

They would not need to be a single organism.

 

In the real world, trees communicate with each other via root systems. They are still separate trees.

[SaffronLady]

5 hours ago, The Commentator said:

The Targaryens bring order, laws, rules, discipline, and structure.

That, but mostly fire and blood.

[The Commentator]

On 12/1/2023 at 8:15 PM, SaffronLady said:

That, but mostly fire and blood.

Fire brings the warmth needed for life. “Blood is the life.” The Targaryens are good. Their role is to oppose the Starks who bring death, destruction and the horrors of winter. Nature is kept in balance. Life and death. Day and night. Good and evil. 

[SaffronLady]

14 minutes ago, The Commentator said:

The Targaryens are good.

Alright, here is your sword and armor, you are now going to Tumbleton. Don't worry, you have the good Targaryens on your side, and Tessarion's not going to accidentially burn you along with the enemy.

[John Suburbs]

On 8/27/2023 at 5:30 AM, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Are the weirwoods actually one massive organism ? They're all connected to each other through their deep root network.

They're like Pando tree- a clonal colony of 'trees' that is actually just one organism connected through their massive underground root system 

Weirwoods with faces are used to see things that happened in the past or the present. They can also be used to store information (things people have seen) in the weirwood roots network. 

Jaime once fell asleep on a weirwood tree stump. But he still gets a magical dream . That's because the tree isn't actually dead. It's alive. Only the portion that comes out of the earth was chopped off. The stump is connected to the magical roots that also contain memories - things people have seen. 

Brans weirwood cave has a lot of roots that run deep beneath the surface. They actually connect to other weirwood 'trees'.

 

Besides, we haven't seen any weirwood seeds. They don't exist. That CoTF tells bran the paste he was given to eat contains weirwood seeds. She could be lying . 

 

Anyways, this also means the COTF will always have access to the sights and memories from tens of thousands of years ago and all the years between - whatever the weirwoods have seen with their faces. No doubt their genocide at the hands of the first men and andals would always be fresh in their minds. 

 

 

 

Could be. Maybe they're not trees at all.