Why isn't LF putting his chips on Sweetrobin?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

26 minutes ago, Nevets said:

GRRM likes to make things as difficult as possible for his main characters.  So my guess is that if Sansa wants an annulment, she will have difficulty obtaining one.

On the other hand, there is a lot of story still to go through, so if Sansa should face difficulties, it shouldn’t be about getting a marriage annulment.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Moiraine Sedai]

Petyr is telling Sansa one thing but his real plan could be miles different. He has Sansa under his thumb. She’s only useful at the moment. Robin is a big part of the plan to control more power and Sansa is just his way to manage the boy. 

[Lee-Sensei]

24 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Petyr is telling Sansa one thing but his real plan could be miles different. He has Sansa under his thumb. She’s only useful at the moment. Robin is a big part of the plan to control more power and Sansa is just his way to manage the boy. 

I think that's part of it, but long term I do think Littlefinger wants to marry Sansa himself. It'll never happen, but Sansa is supposed to be growing into a greater beauty than Catelyn. I think he sees this as his second chance.

[Alester Florent]

4 hours ago, Hippocras said:

LF has been trying to get Tyrion killed since the beginning of the series. His plan remains for the dwarf to die. He is not planning annulment because he is convinced he will succeed imminently in killing Sansa's current husband.

How can he possibly have any idea where Tyrion even is?

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I think that's part of it, but long term I do think Littlefinger wants to marry Sansa himself. It'll never happen, but Sansa is supposed to be growing into a greater beauty than Catelyn. I think he sees this as his second chance.

Yeah whatever his inital plans for her were they have gotten mixed up with his love/lust.

[Moiraine Sedai]

22 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

I think that's part of it, but long term I do think Littlefinger wants to marry Sansa himself. It'll never happen, but Sansa is supposed to be growing into a greater beauty than Catelyn. I think he sees this as his second chance.

That may be, but Sansa only looks like Cat. Sansa lack Cat’s intelligence. That’s why Sansa is useful for his needs. She doesn’t know any better.  She’s more similar to her Aunt Lysa.  Pete is effective at the game because he uses everybody and dispose of them when they no longer serve his needs. He will not treat Sansa any differently, in my opinion. Robin is the real power in the Vale. Pete uses Sansa to manage and pacify the little lord until he’s ready to make his move.  The people of the Vale will never accept Pete lording over them despite becoming owner of the biggest castle. His only way going forward from that is blocked by the social and political hierarchy. The establishments which he wants to tear down. I think he wants to escalate tensions into war to destroy the establishments and then build his own political system with a hierarchy determined by earned wealth instead of family lineage. Fans of meritocracy might find it an attractive system.  

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

36 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Sansa lack Cat’s intelligence.

 Sansa has never lacked intelligence, but has been incredibly naive. Over the course of the story, she has slowly gotten rid of her naivety and is now becoming a player in the game of thrones. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Lee-Sensei]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

 Sansa has never lacked intelligence, but has been incredibly naive. Over the course of the story, she has slowly gotten rid of her naivety and is now becoming a player in the game of thrones. 

Yes. I think that's a very good word for it. She was naive. She's not as naive anymore. Joffrey made sure of that when he cut of Ned's head.

[Hippocras]

On 10/6/2023 at 6:09 PM, Alester Florent said:

How can he possibly have any idea where Tyrion even is?

He likely has some idea, given that he clearly has a solid information network and keeps tabs on Varys. But even if he does not currently have any idea, his hubris is a big factor. He is confident in his ability to find him and get him killed by some means. Harry the Heir is part of a waiting game. 

[Daeron the Daring]

It feels especially strange because Robert is currently in a race for the Vale with..... noone. He has to run a marathon, sure, but he has the time of his life for that.

Now, of course, Littlefinger may need immediate and more extensive control over the Vale for some reason we are yet to be told, but Harry's also a pretty fucking wild card, if you ask me. I mean, it could work, and he might indebt him with Sansa for eternity, but still.

Sansa's 'marriage' to Tyrion is no big deal thou. Note that Petyr intended Tyrion to be executed for poisoning Joffrey, but he still has time to have Tyrion dead, or at least considered as such. Dissolvement is pretty possible thou with a lack of consummation, but it's a risk (with Tyrion alive, especially), and Petyr doesn't like that.

This situation, however is just strange. It seems similar to that of Roose "I legitimize my bastard I'd let inherit over my dead body" Bolton, since Harry is a nobody, and a betrothal to Robert with a secret promise to Harry would be a much safer bet. That is, if Petyr's unwilling to get rid of Sweetrobin himself, which would be sus either way. It's just another knot on an issue that has a clear solution.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Daeron the Daring

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Now, of course, Littlefinger may need immediate and more extensive control over the Vale for some reason we are yet to be told, but Harry's also a pretty fucking wild card, if you ask me. I mean, it could work, and he might indebt him with Sansa for eternity, but still.

Back in 2002, GRRM said that Littlefinger would run into trouble soon because for all of his scheming, he doesn’t actually have an army. Obviously, a lot of time has passed since then, so we don't know if any of that is still in play.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 10/7/2023 at 9:09 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

 Sansa has never lacked intelligence, but has been incredibly naive. Over the course of the story, she has slowly gotten rid of her naivety and is now becoming a player in the game of thrones. 

Sansa does lack intelligence. I don’t hate Sansa like people do but she is weak in the thinking department.  As far as becoming a player, no she is not. The Sans has morals and empathy but she is not a player. 

[Hippocras]

12 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Sansa does lack intelligence. I don’t hate Sansa like people do but she is weak in the thinking department.  As far as becoming a player, no she is not. The Sans has morals and empathy but she is not a player. 

Yet.

She is still growing up. She IS intelligent (probably not gifted, but intelligent), at a 13 year old level. The mistakes she has made and the naivety in her POV is because of her age, not her intelligence. I have a gifted child. High IQ. Quite naive. 

Her path is clearly about becoming a player. There is basically zero doubt that that is the essence of her storyline. But it does not mean she is quite there yet.

[The hairy bear]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:44 PM, Alester Florent said:

Yes, poor little Robert is rather sickly, but he's made it this far and there's no particular reason he should drop dead any time soon with proper care. And he's surely going to be easier to control than Harry, a much older prospect who owes LF nothing.

I think LF takes it for granted that Robert will drop dead sooner or later. He has all the information available, and has had the resources to consult with the most expert maesters. We are told that the seizures are becoming more and more frequent, and that may be a bad sign. LF claims in the AFFC that it's not a matter of if Robert dies, but when.

And if when Robert dies LF hasn't done anything, then Harry inherits the Vale and, as you say, he owes him nothing. He can be kicked away immediately. That's why LF tries to manipulate things so that he can control him in some way. Marrying him to his Sansa, helping him rise to lordship, and maybe, even making him complicit in Sweetrobin's death, would be strong steps in that direction.

On 10/5/2023 at 10:00 AM, Alden Rothack said:

Harry may be older than that

The world app claims Harry was 18 when knighted.

14 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Sansa does lack intelligence. I don’t hate Sansa like people do but she is weak in the thinking department.

Strong disagree. You are basing your claim on mistakes that she did when she was eleven, and without having all the information and the privilege of retrospect.

Sansa has mastered all the lessons he was taught by her septa (sewing, songs, heraldry,...). She was able to identify Barristan Selmy and Renly Baratheon instantly and under stress. When she became a prisoner, she quickly developed strong survival skills, and even managing to manipulate his captors on occasion (such as when he convinced Joffrey not to execute Dontos). She has managed to keep the Alaynne persona at the Eyre without being discovered... I suggest you to read this excellent tmblr on the matter.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

18 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

As far as becoming a player, no she is not.

She is gradually becoming one. We can see it in the way she handles Harry the Heir in her TWOW sample chapter.

[Gilbert Green]

12 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

She is gradually becoming one. We can see it in the way she handles Harry the Heir in her TWOW sample chapter.

Hard to see what you mean.

What you are talking about is Sansa doing (1) girly-girl things; (2) on LF's orders; and (3) it's pretty darned innocent.

Yes, Sansa imagines she is being a clever boots.  But not for this.  What makes her a clever boots, in her mind, is her scheme to surround Sweetrobin with Winged Knights.

Now I'm not saying this is a bad idea.  But it is still head-in-the-clouds Sansa doing head-in-the-clouds Sansa things.

Another clever thing she might be doing is throwing herself into her "Alayne" role, thereby hiding her true thoughts, not only from LF, but also from the reader.  Still, that would be very Sansa of her.

LF no doubt imagines he is two steps ahead of her.  He plans to manipulate the results of the tourney so that all the winners are his catspaws.

Still, some mystery knight might slip through.

 

 

 

 

[Springwatch]

15 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Another clever thing she might be doing is throwing herself into her "Alayne" role, thereby hiding her true thoughts, not only from LF, but also from the reader.

Yes, this, absolutely. 

Anyway, I thought her handling of Harry was genius - he's hooked (as much as he can be from a first date), and she still has him at arm's length. I'm sure LF expected her to allow Harry some liberties to win his favour.

She manipulates SR pretty well, and she's showing intelligent interest in people's motives - it's not full-on the game of thrones yet, but those skills are useful.

15 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

LF no doubt imagines he is two steps ahead of her.  He plans to manipulate the results of the tourney so that all the winners are his catspaws.

Yeah, I think so.  But LF/Petyr is a split personality too. His plans depend on SR eventually dying, but at the same time he provides this incredibly elite bodyguard, which will add considerable difficulty if it comes to murder. I think he's literally in two minds about SR, and Sansa too - he desires her, and he names her after his mother (ick!)

15 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Still, some mystery knight might slip through.

No-one gets her favour. The avalanche comes down, and pretty much everybody dies. End of all LF's fine plans.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Anyway, I thought her handling of Harry was genius - he's hooked (as much as he can be from a first date), and she still has him at arm's length. I'm sure LF expected her to allow Harry some liberties to win his favour.

I really hope that we'll get more info in book form sooner rather than later.