Videogames: All Valves on Deck

[Werthead]

2 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Can't address Rockstar, but Witcher 2 was still the NWN Aurora engine, whereas Witcher 3 was the Red Engine - the same one used in CP77. 

The Witcher 2 was the first game to use the RED Engine. The Aurora Engine - in a heavily modified form - was used solely for The Witcher 1.

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

I mean other companies who’ve had half of Bethesda’s game and budget and time have delivered far superior games…so let’s not claim BGS hasn’t had the necessary business support to deliver good games. Especially since MS has been bankrolling them.

To reframe it: 

Sometimes a writer has an idea for a novel that they love, and with which they are absolutely enamoured, and for them means a lot, and speaks to their personal creative impulses. But that novel might not work for everyone else, and not land the way they want it to. 

Same idea here. Bethesda had this idea percolating for a long time, and it was something that they wanted to make. And maybe they found it personally creatively satisfying, which doesn't always mean it'll connect with audiences. 

And maybe - as with, for example David Bowie albums, sometimes getting that quirky experimental thing they wanted to do out of the way helps them thusly make something with broader appeal that reaches a wider audience and is more successful. 

You have to allow for artists to try and make weird shit that's not always going to work for everyone. It's how this stuff works, whether it's a siloed text/game, whatever, made by one artist, or by a team, or something larger. 

They made the game they wanted to make, that tells us more about what they value as gamers and designers, and there's something interesting there. (Sadly, it's a game I can't play as my pool ole' computer isn't powerful to run it, but eventually, one day, I'll try it out.)

[IlyaP]

2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The Witcher 2 was the first game to use the RED Engine. The Aurora Engine - in a heavily modified form - was used solely for The Witcher 1.

Hot damn. I thought it was still the Aurora Engine. I stand corrected. Thanks @Werthead!

[IlyaP]

4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Even if it did okay in sales/Game Pass subs, Microsoft will definitely want the acclaim as well, and seeing Starfield not get just curb-stomped critically but utterly atomised by Baldur's Gate III and Phantom Liberty will have been disappointing. They wanted a game that could dominate the discourse like Skyrim did.

Not unlike what happened with Dragon Age 3 and Witcher 3 six months later, eh?

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

7 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Can't address Rockstar, but Witcher 2 was still the NWN Aurora engine, whereas Witcher 3 was the Red Engine - the same one used in CP77. 

That was Witcher 1, Witcher 2 was in RED. My point was other companies seem to iterate on their engines in a much more evolutionary manner than BGS.

[IlyaP]

1 minute ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

That was Witcher 1, Witcher 2 was in RED. My point was other companies seem to iterate on their engines in a much more evolutionary manner than BGS.

DSO2 and BG3 might be an exception there. I played a bit of both, and in a Pepsi/Coke style competition, I would not be able to tell you which was which if you asked me, put a gun to my head, or offered me a craft beer of my choice.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

9 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

. 

They made the game they wanted to make, that tells us more about what they value as gamers and designers, and there's something interesting there. (Sadly, it's a game I can't play as my pool ole' computer isn't powerful to run it, but eventually, one day, I'll try it out.)

You’ve been playing CP2077 on PC right ? If so you can definitely run Starfield !

[IlyaP]

Just now, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

You’ve been playing CP2077 on PC right ? If so you can definitely run Starfield !

I tried. I really did. I got Myst level framerates. It was deeply unfun. 

Borrowing a friend's videocard until I get a new job and can afford a new videocard for my system, as my GTX 1060 6gb simply is not enough to render all the stuff Creation Engine 2 has to offer. And Starfield *is* Ilya crack in terms of what it has on offer.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

1 hour ago, IlyaP said:

I tried. I really did. I got Myst level framerates. It was deeply unfun. 

Borrowing a friend's videocard until I get a new job and can afford a new videocard for my system, as my GTX 1060 6gb simply is not enough to render all the stuff Creation Engine 2 has to offer. And Starfield *is* Ilya crack in terms of what it has on offer.

Wow so it looks worse AND runs worse than Cyberpunk ? Remind me why was this game not criticised for technical issues at launch…. Really makes the huge amount of vitriol directed at CP2077 at launch even more jarring in comparison.

 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

1 hour ago, IlyaP said:

To reframe it: 

Sometimes a writer has an idea for a novel that they love, and with which they are absolutely enamoured, and for them means a lot, and speaks to their personal creative impulses. But that novel might not work for everyone else, and not land the way they want it to. 

Same idea here. Bethesda had this idea percolating for a long time, and it was something that they wanted to make. And maybe they found it personally creatively satisfying, which doesn't always mean it'll connect with audiences. 

And maybe - as with, for example David Bowie albums, sometimes getting that quirky experimental thing they wanted to do out of the way helps them thusly make something with broader appeal that reaches a wider audience and is more successful. 

You have to allow for artists to try and make weird shit that's not always going to work for everyone. It's how this stuff works, whether it's a siloed text/game, whatever, made by one artist, or by a team, or something larger. 

They made the game they wanted to make, that tells us more about what they value as gamers and designers, and there's something interesting there. (Sadly, it's a game I can't play as my pool ole' computer isn't powerful to run it, but eventually, one day, I'll try it out.)

I guess that viewpoint is fair. I expected Skyrim in space and by all accounts this game certainly ain’t that.

[Gorn]

2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

To reframe it: 

Sometimes a writer has an idea for a novel that they love, and with which they are absolutely enamoured, and for them means a lot, and speaks to their personal creative impulses. But that novel might not work for everyone else, and not land the way they want it to. 

Same idea here. Bethesda had this idea percolating for a long time, and it was something that they wanted to make. And maybe they found it personally creatively satisfying, which doesn't always mean it'll connect with audiences. 

And maybe - as with, for example David Bowie albums, sometimes getting that quirky experimental thing they wanted to do out of the way helps them thusly make something with broader appeal that reaches a wider audience and is more successful. 

You have to allow for artists to try and make weird shit that's not always going to work for everyone. It's how this stuff works, whether it's a siloed text/game, whatever, made by one artist, or by a team, or something larger. 

They made the game they wanted to make, that tells us more about what they value as gamers and designers, and there's something interesting there. (Sadly, it's a game I can't play as my pool ole' computer isn't powerful to run it, but eventually, one day, I'll try it out.)

Bethesda hasn't really made a "quirky experimental thing" as a main game since Morrowind, or maaaybe Dawnguard if you count DLCs.

The main complaint that I've seen from Starfield players is that it is too bland, and too oriented toward "wider audience" to the point where it lacks any depth. And Pagliarulo has gone on record that his design philosophy is to "keep it simple", and that he doesn't write complex stories and characters because some players won't care about them.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Gorn

[Werthead]

Yeah, Starfield is more punishing on hardware then CP77 or Baldur's Gate 3 and looks less impressive than either of them. Another problem with sticking a new renderer on a very, very old engine is that you don't get the best optimisation possible.

It's an okay game but I think I've seen almost everything worth seeing in it at well under 50 hours, which is the least of any Bethesda game I think I've played since I played Daggerfall in 1998. There isn't a massive amount of meaningful content in the game. My last un-exhaustive very quicky run through Skyrim took 50 hours, my last exhaustive everything-and-the-kitchen-sink run through Fallout 4 took ~120 hours.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Werthead

[IlyaP]

Final Fantasy XV: Windows Edition was on sale on Steam, so I've just picked that up. And ye gods, it's a 105gig install, so that's definitely an overnight install. 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Final Fantasy XV: Windows Edition was on sale on Steam, so I've just picked that up. And ye gods, it's a 105gig install, so that's definitely an overnight install. 

Get 1 gbps fiber bro , or are Australian ISPs prohibitively expensive ? It’s dirt cheap in India. I feel 1 gbps has kinda become mandatory for PC gaming + a streamer household now 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Get 1 gbps fiber bro , or are Australia ISPs prohibitively expensive

Aussie internet is a series of tin cans connected to strings.

At least, that was the stereotype 30 years ago.

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Aussie internet is a series of tin cans connected to strings.

At least, that was the stereotype 30 years ago.

Still is. 

Getting the kinds of internet Rod mentioned here is, uh, not cheap. And not within our price range at the moment.

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Get 1 gbps fiber bro , or are Australian ISPs prohibitively expensive ? It’s dirt cheap in India. I feel 1 gbps has kinda become mandatory for PC gaming + a streamer household now 

You would scream over here. Like, literally, scream. The internet here is...

Uh. 

*looks at Siri*

"Hey Siri, what's a synonym for 'Crap'?"

"Hi there, a synonym for crap is 'Australian internet speeds'."

*wince*

[Impmk2]

So many Australian households still use copper to connect to the internet. For many there's no paying for fiber option because the fiber does not physically exist. You'd have to pay to get it run down your street.

[IlyaP]

1 minute ago, Impmk2 said:

So many Australian households still use copper to connect to the internet. For many there's no paying for fiber option because the fiber does not physically exist. You'd have to pay to get it run down your street.

We have fiber to the node and it's still slow. 

A friend back in the states has fiber to the home and he taunts me with the blazing speeds he gets. TAUNTS ME I SAY.

[Impmk2]

Just now, IlyaP said:

We have fiber to the node and it's still slow. 

A friend back in the states has fiber to the home and he taunts me with the blazing speeds he gets. TAUNTS ME I SAY.

Yeah I was stuck on a fttn connection at my old place. It was slow as hell and dropped out all the time. I feel for you.

Luckily now on a hfc (coax), which I can at least get a steady 100mbps out of.