Do you agree that Cersei Lannister is so tragic that her Freudian Excuse alone would make her Inconsistently Heinous?

[SeanF]

43 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:

Yeah, let's blame a woman who is seriously traumatized by her abusive marriage to a rapist for not wanting to have said rapist's children.

Do you realize that a lot of women who are raped, abort their rapist's child simply because they can't cope with the trauma. Are these women also evil/immoral or whatever because they don't want to have a child from the person who raped. Why do you expect Cersei to have a child with a man who raped her, so that this child could remind her further of what she has experienced and traumatize her further. How selfish of her that Cersei doesn't want this?

And yeah, let's blame this traumatized woman for the war doing what most women do after being raped just because she is in a position as queen and even though there are so many other people who are to blame for the deaths. You are essentially saying that Cersei has to put up with rape and has to endure the trauma of having a child which would remind her of her rapes and say she is evil because she doesn't want this.

And for the record, Cersei tried to avoid the war by negotiating with Ned Stark to leave her alone, so it's not like Cersei wanted to be caught or cause a succession war. Ned Stark was the one who chose to try to arrest her still, which means that the choice to prevent the war was his and he chose to try and arrest her for the sake of his "honor" which directly led to the war. Just because he is more "honorable" than Cersei and because he was following the oppressive and sexist laws of his society while Cersei wasn't, doesn't mean he is not at least as much responsible for what happened as Cersei.

Or why don't you actually blame the people who order war crimes to be committed against the common folk which is something Cersei doesn't do by the way, because she was pretty inactive during the war and her overall body count is pretty low.

Or why don't you blame Littlefinger who was the one who intentionally caused the War of the Five Kings in the first place but blame a traumatized woman who simply didn't want to have her rapist's children and wasn't aiming to cause it in the first place?

The only reason why you only blame Cersei is because you don't like her but you like or are indifferent to characters like Ned, or Jaime, or Littlefinger, or Lysa, etc., so of course they are completely blameless for the war unlike the woman who didn't want to have children with her rapist. Tywin also shares a much bigger fault than Cersei because he was the one who ordered the Riverlands to be decimated, making him responsible for the biggest war crimes during the war and the biggest amount of victims, yet I don't see you blaming him either.

Cersei is an utter horror to the small folk.  We see this right at the start, where Sandor kills Mycah, to please her.  It just gets worse from there.

She’s not just a bystander in TWOT5K.  She’s Queen Regent.  She threatens to break the hands of smiths, and cares not a jot about the people of the city going hungry, while she and her court stuff themselves with fine foods and wines. She knows full well her son is a psychopathic usurper, yet does nothing to restrain his cruelty towards the commons.

This isn’t a case of applying 21st century values anachronistically.  Protecting the people is meant to be one of her jobs.  

Edited December 26, 2023 by SeanF

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

15 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:

Cersei loves her children, meanwhile Tywin doesn't love any of his kids (which is even listed on his Near Pure Evil page). Cersei is Also capable of feeling remorse unlike Tywin. Also, Cersei has much bigger excuses for her actions than Tywin.

Tywin didn't experience the following things:

1) He didn't experience systematic sexism on a constant basis and had a much easier life than her because he was a man and a heir to Casterly Rock.

2) He wasn't emotionally abused and neglected by his own father all the time.

3) He didn't receive a prophecy which foretold his death and the death of all his kids which made him paranoid and caused him to commit crimes to stop it from happening.

4) He wasn't forced into an abusive marriage and raped for 14 years.

5) He wasn't threatened with execution and the execution of his lover and his kids if anyone finds out he is cheating on his abusive spouse.

And Tywin is largely responsible for the way Cersei is which makes him even worse than her. If Cersei was raised by, say Ned Stark, who was a supportive father and taught his children moral values and wasn't emotionally abusive, she would have become a good person.

Cersei doesn't love her kids for themselves or views them as persons, she loves them as extensions of herself, whose shameless spoiling and indulging of Joffrey largely turned him into a sadistic monster, and she's a horrible terrible mother to Tommen.

Also she was already a horrible person as a kid who twisted Tyrion's pennis while he was a baby, threatened a maid of mutilation and may have pushed her own friend to her death into a well. 

And she has not a single positive or non-toxic relation with any member of her family or any real friend because she isn't a friend to begin with. 

At least Tywin had a sincere love for and positive relation with Joanna, and had an at least decent relation with Kevan.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[StarkTullies]

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

Do you agree that Cersei Lannister is so tragic that her Freudian Excuse alone would make her Inconsistently Heinous?

I intensely disagree.  Cersei is not the most evil character in the story, but she is absolutely the most evil non-Prologue/Epilogue POV character.  Nothing about her character is "so tragic", and anything that might have made her slightly sympathetic is washed away by the surfeit of her horrible deeds.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

You already know that Cersei Lannister is Inconsistently Heinous

I don't know how you can start your extremely repetitive copy-and-paste threads with "for those of you who don't know", but then assume that we "know" that she is inconsistently heinous.  Her heinousness is quite consistent.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

She lost her mother at the age of 7 which has left her traumatized.

Yes, that is sad.  It is not unique in this world however, and I don't see all the other characters in this story who lost their mother at a young age (the vast majority of the POV characters and half the rest of Westeros) becoming unhinged lunatics.  There is no evidence that Cersei was "traumatized" however.

Seven-year-old Cersei wanting to kill her baby brother was not out of "trauma" but because she is cruel and sadistic.  Jaime lost his mother too, and I daresay Jaime loved his mother more than Cersei did, and we didn't see Jaime wishing death on his baby brother.  But murdering babies is what Cersei loves to do.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

At the age of 10, Cersei received a prophecy from Maggy that all of her kids would die, that a younger and more baeutiful queen would take everything she holds dear and then Cersei herself would be killed by her younger brother. This made Cersei very paranoid about her life and the lives of her children.

No it didn't.  Cersei thought that by murdering Melara (which she did do), the prophesy wouldn't happen if no one remembered it.  She boasted to Maggie in her mind that her prophesy failed.  She didn't start to worry about the prophesy until after Tyrion murdered Tywin.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

made her even more abusive towards Tyrion because she believes that he is the younger brother from the prophecy and caused her to become distrustful towards most other people

At least you said "even more abusive", acknowledging that Cersei was indeed abusive.  But even when she was just "a little bit abusive" toward Tyrion, she still wanted him dead.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

A lot of the crimes she commits are an attempt to prevent this prophecy from happening and saving her children and herself.

If she wanted to prevent the prophecy, she could have: NOT murdered Melara (which she did do), NOT have aborted Robert's children, NOT have started a war to put golden crowns on her bastard children's heads.

And no... the vast majority of her crimes were not about preventing this prophecy from happening (see above).  You could argue that Cersei's dwarf genocide and torture of the Blue Bard to destroy Margaery came from her prophecy-related paranoia, but nothing else.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

Her father Tywin was neglectful most of the time, barely displayed any parental love aside from a few occasions and he was a brutal ruler who taught his kids that they should be merciless, that they shouldn't care about morality only about the end results and that they should look down on small folk or anyone who isn't a Lannister.

Yes Tywin is a monster, and yes Tywin is a terrible parent.  Are we talking about being raised under a bad influence, or the "trauma" and "tragedy" of Cersei's upbringing, because Cersei was not traumatized by Tywin.  She wanted to be Tywin Lannister with teats, and she needed no encouragement from her father to look down at anyone who isn't a Lannister.  You can't blame Cersei's terrible governance on his bad teachings, because Tywin also taught to make peace with enemies when needed, which is something she never learned.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

She was married to Robert Baratheon, who cheated on her and abused her by sometimes even raping her which also has an affect on her

Yes, Robert was a terrible man and a terrible husband, but there is no sympathy for Cersei for his cheating.  She didn't cheat on Robert because he cheated on her first; she slept with her twin the morning of her wedding.  She also didn't cheat with just anybody... she cheated with her twin brother who looked just like her, and it was the closest she had to having sex with herself.  Cersei is a true narcissist.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

In the world of Westeros if it's discovered that she had cheated on her husband with Jaime, she and all of her kids would be executed while her husband also cheats on her all the time with dozens of different women which displays the double standards of Westerosi laws. The reason why she kills Robert and Ned is because she wants to protect her life and the life of her kids from execution.

You're conveniently leaving out the detail that Cersei's treason is not only adultery, but committing incest with her brother AND passing off her incest-bastard children as Robert's heirs.  Regardless, you are right that the laws are sexist that her committing adultery with a non-brother and not fraudulently passing off bastards as heirs is treason in itself, but you are incredibly wrong that this is why she murdered Robert.  She murdered Robert for power.

Interestingly, while trying to defend Cersei, you added one crime that she actually isn't guilty of.  She wanted Ned to take the black, not be killed.  She did however order the slaughter of the entire Stark household- even Septa Mordane- and there is no non-absurd argument that can be made that Septa Mordane was murdered to protect Cersei's children.

On 12/24/2023 at 5:26 PM, boltons are sick said:

In general, she has suffered from systematic sexism throughout her whole life starting from childhood because she was born in a highly sexist society where women are inferior to men and she and Jaime were treated differently because of their gender.

Yes, Westeros is sexist.  Yet ~50% of the Westerosi population are women, and they don't all turn out to be like Cersei.  Cersei has it better than any other woman in Westeros in regard to power and privelege and better than the vast majority of men.  It is sexist that there has only been one woman sitting on the Small Council throughout these books, but that one woman is Cersei.  She ruled the Seven Kingdoms in A Feast for Crows with absolute power, and I don't remember any of the characters questioning her ability to rule because she was a woman.

In fact, the most misogynistic character in the series is probably... Cersei.  She has nothing but contempt for other women, and I feel no sympathy for Cersei for what could have happened to her for her adultery, when she framed Margaery for adultery that she did not commit with the hopes of getting her executed.  This is when you can blame the prophecy, but what purpose did Cersei have to gloat to Margaery that her brother was on his death bed for a mission Cersei sent him on so he would die?  Cersei hated Margaery because she is a cruel and evil person; the prophecy is just an excuse.

Cersei is evil.  No tragedy, no trauma, no inconsistency.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 12/26/2023 at 6:20 PM, boltons are sick said:

Yeah, Ned promised to "protect" by simply giving her a little headstart before he tells Robert. After that, Robert would have found her through Varys' magical network of spies and would have killed her and her kids. 

I really don't see where this whole argument that Ned promised her protection comes from when he literally threatens her life and just gives her a few days to get out of the city before he tells Robert about her cheating on him who would execute her for it. And even if she took his offer, she and her kids would have still died, so her only option to protect her family was to stay in the capital, kill Robert and then deal with Ned afterwards. She had no other choice.

Yes, she did. This is the base reason your argument is wrong. zshe did. She had so many choices. But she is a selfish, self-centered natcissist. Honedtly, this level of delusion has now reached Tywin-apologia. Tywin and Cersei choose to be horrible people. zthey choose to cause harm to others. They are bad people. And I am done with any argument that argued they aren’t. It’s stupid. They are selfish asshats. Stop defending selfish asshats. 

[boltons are sick]

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Yes, she did. This is the base reason your argument is wrong. zshe did. She had so many choices. But she is a selfish, self-centered natcissist. Honedtly, this level of delusion has now reached Tywin-apologia. Tywin and Cersei choose to be horrible people. zthey choose to cause harm to others. They are bad people. And I am done with any argument that argued they aren’t. It’s stupid. They are selfish asshats. Stop defending selfish asshats. 

Weren't you the one who defended Robb Stark pillaging the Westerlands and killing Lannister peasants with "this is just how wars were fought back then" or something like that even though you could make the exact same argument for Tywin pillaging the Riverlands. You were also the one who defended Daenerys torturing two innocent girls in front of their father with "she was just trying to bring killers to justice".

Most of the characters in ASOIAF have done terrible things, but I guess it's only fine to defend the terrible actions of characters you like, but if you don't like the characters, then you just think that they are bad people who don't have any justifiable reason to do what they do, etc, even though Cersei hasn't actually done worse than some of the people you defend. 

And you claim that Cersei had so many choices to save her children, but you didn't even bother to list any of them (no, taking Ned's offer doesn't count for the reasons I already explained) and just switch back to your argument about how I defend bad people even though you literally defend Daenerys who burned a rape victim alive, chose over 100 random people to crucify just because 1 or 2 of them committed a terrible crimes and tortured 2 innocent girls in front of their father. And she doesn't even have Cersei's excuse that her family's lives were in danger in these instances, she just wanted to impose her own version of "justice" because she thinks that everything she does and says is right because she is the "rightful ruler".

Just admit that your prejudiced treatment against Cersei compared to other characters doesn't stem from any moral high ground but because you simply don't like Cersei but you like these other characters and that's the only reason why you are willing to excuse them and not her and the reason for your opinions doesn't actually stem from any morality but from whether you personally like or dislike the character.

Edited December 27, 2023 by boltons are sick

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

2 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

Weren't you the one who defended Robb Stark pillaging the Westerlands and killing Lannister peasants with "this is just how wars were fought back then" or something like that even though you could make the exact same argument for Tywin pillaging the Riverlands. You were also the one who defended Daenerys torturing two innocent girls in front of their father with "she was just trying to bring killers to justice".

Most of the characters in ASOIAF have done terrible things, but I guess it's only fine to defend the terrible actions of characters you like, but if you don't like the characters, then you just think that they are bad people who don't have any justifiable reason to do what they do, etc, even though Cersei hasn't actually done worse than some of the people you defend. 

And you claim that Cersei had so many choices to save her children, but you didn't even bother to list any of them (no, taking Ned's offer doesn't count for the reasons I already explained) and just switch back to your argument about how I defend bad people even though you literally defend Daenerys who burned a rape victim alive, chose over 100 random people to crucify just because 1 or 2 of them committed a terrible crimes and tortured 2 innocent girls in front of their father. And she doesn't even have Cersei's excuse that her family's lives were in danger in these instances, she just wanted to impose her own version of "justice" because she thinks that everything she does and says is right because she is the "rightful ruler".

Just admit that your prejudiced treatment against Cersei compared to other characters doesn't stem from any moral high ground but because you simply don't like Cersei but you like these other characters and that's the only reason why you are willing to excuse them and not her and the reason for your opinions doesn't actually stem from any morality but from whether you personally like or dislike the character.

No that is 100% not me. Can you only comprehend copy paste content? I am super progressive and annoy people here by saying liek the opposite of your suggestions. I have actively defended Cersei when people try to blame her for Robert or Jaime or others actions. Honestly outside of you, I probably have been the only person I see actually ever defending Cersei. Like, come on. Know who you are talking to at leadt if you are going to engage in that kind of blaming attitude. 

[SaffronLady]

I have to admit this is pretty rich.

2 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

Just admit that your prejudiced treatment against Cersei compared to other characters doesn't stem from any moral high ground but because you simply don't like Cersei

There is a context to this quote, but just isolated like this ... c'mon, why do you think almost everyone replying to the thread finds Cersei consistently heinous? We dislike her - because we ARE ON THE MORAL HIGH GROUND. That's not prejudice, that's GRRM successfully creating a character people hate and hate-love. 

"F-ck, this is really a piece of work, but a really believable power-hungry, self-absorbed, entitled, narcissist, cruel, sadistic and stupid player of the game of thrones." If this is the reaction GRRM wants from his readers, you trying to make Cersei sympathetic actually is doing him a disservice.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

4 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

Weren't you the one who defended Robb Stark pillaging the Westerlands and killing Lannister peasants with "this is just how wars were fought back then" or something like that even though you could make the exact same argument for Tywin pillaging the Riverlands. You were also the one who defended Daenerys torturing two innocent girls in front of their father with "she was just trying to bring killers to justice".

Most of the characters in ASOIAF have done terrible things, but I guess it's only fine to defend the terrible actions of characters you like, but if you don't like the characters, then you just think that they are bad people who don't have any justifiable reason to do what they do, etc, even though Cersei hasn't actually done worse than some of the people you defend. 

And you claim that Cersei had so many choices to save her children, but you didn't even bother to list any of them (no, taking Ned's offer doesn't count for the reasons I already explained) and just switch back to your argument about how I defend bad people even though you literally defend Daenerys who burned a rape victim alive, chose over 100 random people to crucify just because 1 or 2 of them committed a terrible crimes and tortured 2 innocent girls in front of their father. And she doesn't even have Cersei's excuse that her family's lives were in danger in these instances, she just wanted to impose her own version of "justice" because she thinks that everything she does and says is right because she is the "rightful ruler".

Just admit that your prejudiced treatment against Cersei compared to other characters doesn't stem from any moral high ground but because you simply don't like Cersei but you like these other characters and that's the only reason why you are willing to excuse them and not her and the reason for your opinions doesn't actually stem from any morality but from whether you personally like or dislike the character.

Honestly, I know I already answered this, but this is such an awful mischaracterization of me as a person on this forum to be like libel almsot. You literally just lied about things I never said or did. I mean, you literally acted like I favored TYWIN in this commment, someone I most certainly and clearly hate, and have made massive posts talking about how much I hate him on multiple occassions (he is the worst, but cersei is right there behind him). 

It’s not even a strawmen argument, because a strawmen argument at least has a basis in the person you are engaging with…you just lied. You jsut made up things and then made a point as though it made any sense. Honestly, it’s just such a shitty thing to do. Don’t talk to me if you can’t actually engage with me. Because it is a waste if my time, and I won’t have someone libeling me and making shit up about me. 

[boltons are sick]

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Honestly, I know I already answered this, but this is such an awful mischaracterization of me as a person on this forum to be like libel almsot. You literally just lied about things I never said or did. I mean, you literally acted like I favored TYWIN in this commment, someone I most certainly and clearly hate, and have made massive posts talking about how much I hate him on multiple occassions (he is the worst, but cersei is right there behind him). 

It’s not even a strawmen argument, because a strawmen argument at least has a basis in the person you are engaging with…you just lied. You jsut made up things and then made a point as though it made any sense. Honestly, it’s just such a shitty thing to do. Don’t talk to me if you can’t actually engage with me. Because it is a waste if my time, and I won’t have someone libeling me and making shit up about me. 

I never said in this comment that you favored Tywin, it's pretty clear from all your comments you hate him, so read more carefully next time what I have written. This is what I wrote:

Quote

Weren't you the one who defended Robb Stark pillaging the Westerlands and killing Lannister peasants with "this is just how wars were fought back then" or something like that even though you could make the exact same argument for Tywin pillaging the Riverlands.

However, I do remember from one of our previous discussions that you defended Robb's pillaging because "this was just how wars were back then" or something like that and I just pointed out in this comment that you could use the exact same defense for Tywin's actions in the Riverlands (even though it would be incorrect) but you are not doing it because you favor Robb and the Starks in general but hate Tywin.

Similarly, you also defended Daenerys's actions in one of our previous discussions, even the torture of two children in front of their father because "she was trying to find killers" or something like that. You also defended her crucification of over 100 random people without trial which was done for the crimes of 2-3 people. I am pretty sure that if Cersei had done these things for the exact same reasons, you would have crucified her and condemned her, but because it's Danny, she is fine.

That's why I annoyed not just by you but by almost everyone in this fandom who acts like defending a character like Cersei apparently makes you a bad person and is totally unacceptable, and then they go around and defend the actions of characters like Tyrion, Daenerys, Stannis, etc. who do just as bad. These people act like they have the moral highground, but they don't they just defend the characters they like and condemn the characters they dislike without actually caring for morality because otherwise they would just admit that almost everyone in the story is a shitty person who has done terrible things without trying to put certain characters who have done bad things on pedestal and condemn others like Cersei who haven't done worse.

Edited December 27, 2023 by boltons are sick

[SaffronLady]

9 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:

That's why I annoyed not just by you but by almost everyone in this fandom who acts like defending a character like Cersei apparently makes you a bad person and is totally unacceptable

Speaking only for myself here, but I don't think defending Cersei is "totally unacceptable". You have a bias; you speak up; the topic is about a fictional character. I, personally, am ok about this. I am biased against Cersei, after all.

At least Cersei is not like other people who declare intentions to reduce Gaza to ash and rubble. Defending such real-life individuals is truly heartless.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

I never said in this comment that you favored Tywin, it's pretty clear from all your comments you hate him, so read more carefully next time what I have written. This is what I wrote:

However, I do remember from one of our previous discussions that you defended Robb's pillaging because "this was just how wars were back then" or something like that and I just pointed out in this comment that you could use the exact same defense for Tywin's actions in the Riverlands (even though it would be incorrect) but you are not doing it because you favor Robb and the Starks in general but hate Tywin.

Similarly, you also defended Daenerys's actions in one of our previous discussions, even the torture of two children in front of their father because "she was trying to find killers" or something like that. You also defended her crucification of over 100 random people without trial which was done for the crimes of 2-3 people. I am pretty sure that if Cersei had done these things for the exact same reasons, you would have crucified her and condemned her, but because it's Danny, she is fine.

That's why I annoyed not just by you but by almost everyone in this fandom who acts like defending a character like Cersei apparently makes you a bad person and is totally unacceptable, and then they go around and defend the actions of characters like Tyrion, Daenerys, Stannis, etc. who do just as bad. These people act like they have the moral highground, but they don't they just defend the characters they like and condemn the characters they dislike without actually caring for morality because otherwise they would just admit that almost everyone in the story is a shitty person who has done terrible things without trying to put certain characters who have done bad things on pedestal and condemn others like Cersei who haven't done worse.

Robb and Dany - whatever their faults - also defend the smallfolk who are entitled to their protection.

Cersei does not.  In fact, she laughs at their sufferings (eg “most of them were no doubt praying for a good raping.”)

Edited December 27, 2023 by SeanF

[kissdbyfire]

If I may, I suggest everyone just acknowledges that Cersei is a victim of basically everyone she ever encounters, she’s very intelligent, loves her children fiercely, and would, no doubt, be the bestest ruler of the whole of Planetos. 
 

Maybe it will work.

[SaffronLady]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

If I may, I suggest everyone just acknowledges that Cersei is a victim of basically everyone she ever encounters, she’s very intelligent, loves her children fiercely, and would, no doubt, be the bestest ruler of the whole of Planetos. 
 

Maybe it will work.

I must disagree. Both on the opinion itself, and the idea it would work.

[kissdbyfire]

I'm dead certain it wouldn't work.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

If I may, I suggest everyone just acknowledges that Cersei is a victim of basically everyone she ever encounters, she’s very intelligent, loves her children fiercely, and would, no doubt, be the bestest ruler of the whole of Planetos. 
 

Maybe it will work.

That's D&D talking lol

[Alester Florent]

8 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

Just admit that your prejudiced treatment against Cersei compared to other characters doesn't stem from any moral high ground but because you simply don't like Cersei but you like these other characters and that's the only reason why you are willing to excuse them and not her and the reason for your opinions doesn't actually stem from any morality but from whether you personally like or dislike the character.

You've got it backwards. People don't think Cersei is a terrible person because they dislike her. They dislike her because she's a terrible person.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

You've got it backwards. People don't think Cersei is a terrible person because they dislike her. They dislike her because she's a terrible person.

This x 1,000,000.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 hour ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

That's D&D talking lol

I still can't understand how on Earth Dumbo & Doofy thought that Cersei was an awesome and competent woman and ruler, worthy of respect and admiration, and was the final boss of the show instead of the White Walkers and the Night King. Or rather I don't know what on Earth they have been smoking for this to happen.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

 

17 hours ago, boltons are sick said:

I never said in this comment that you favored Tywin, it's pretty clear from all your comments you hate him, so read more carefully next time what I have written. This is what I wrote:

However, I do remember from one of our previous discussions that you defended Robb's pillaging because "this was just how wars were back then" or something like that and I just pointed out in this comment that you could use the exact same defense for Tywin's actions in the Riverlands (even though it would be incorrect) but you are not doing it because you favor Robb and the Starks in general but hate Tywin.

Similarly, you also defended Daenerys's actions in one of our previous discussions, even the torture of two children in front of their father because "she was trying to find killers" or something like that. You also defended her crucification of over 100 random people without trial which was done for the crimes of 2-3 people. I am pretty sure that if Cersei had done these things for the exact same reasons, you would have crucified her and condemned her, but because it's Danny, she is fine.

That's why I annoyed not just by you but by almost everyone in this fandom who acts like defending a character like Cersei apparently makes you a bad person and is totally unacceptable, and then they go around and defend the actions of characters like Tyrion, Daenerys, Stannis, etc. who do just as bad. These people act like they have the moral highground, but they don't they just defend the characters they like and condemn the characters they dislike without actually caring for morality because otherwise they would just admit that almost everyone in the story is a shitty person who has done terrible things without trying to put certain characters who have done bad things on pedestal and condemn others like Cersei who haven't done worse.

No. I didn’t. I didn’t say those things. You. Are. Lying. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Lord of Raventree Hall

[Jaenara Belarys]

@Lord of Raventree Hall, at this point with how this guy's threads go every single time, I would just suggest that people simply mute/ignore him. 

I've done that (but I will admit, it's not wholly successful. I'm only here because I wanted to read this thread out of boredom and me having the flaw of liking to witness people I disagree with get absolutely dogged on). 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jaenara Belarys