Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 minutes ago, Rippounet said: The inability to understand why someone might sacrifice themselves for a cause is telling, as is the oft repeated mantra that only some forms of protest are worthy of respect. Would it be okay if he shot himself in the head to protest the Israeli invasion of Gaza? Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: use his energy in a positive way that could have meaningful outcomes Have you considered that he maybe he set himself on fire because felt there was no other way to have a 'meaningful outcome'? It is not a spur of the moment choice. I doubt he just looked at the news one day and went 'right, time to burn myself to death!'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 "Boycotts don't work." Not to mention, the USA and UK have been working extra hard to make it illegal to boycott Israel. Mass protests get ignored by the people in power. Not to mention they're deemed inconvenient by the apathetic. The USA just vetoed a third ceasefire resolution, making it impossible for the ICJ measures to be implemented. Donations and aid trucks can't even get into Gaza because Israeli civilians, teenagers included, think Gazans aren't suffering enough. They are throwing rave parties at transition points, blocking the aid from reaching kids who are literally eating animal feed and grass. Even if you donate money online, people in the North of Gaza can't even use it because what is there to buy? Not to mention, gofundme is holding on to people's donations. The UN and other aid agencies have now issued multiple alerts about a developing famine in Gaza. Etcetera. Etcetera. Etcetera. The stuff on our screens is not normal. But yeah, this poor guy should have just tried to be a little harder to be more "positive" with his actions. kissdbyfire, Durckad, Craving Peaches and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) The inhumanity on display here is disgusting. Sneering imperialists mocking and discrediting the actions of one who was willing to sacrifice himself in the name of those who are the victims of an ongoing genocide despite the fact he is not directly affected by said genocide. The inhumanity on display here is disgusting. Of course, it is the same folks who have been cheering the exact crimes against humanity that he is protesting are downplaying the legitimacy of his actions. We are not disconnected by this either. Our tax dollars are directly going towards the murder of Palestinians. Also if you think we are disconnected from the horrors that we are seeing, you're lying to yourself. The only reason we are able to live the lives we live is due to the exploitation and brutalization of the global south. You can blind yourself to this reality, comfort yourself with your hollow luxuries but that is just craven rationalization that allows you to not feel guilty for your excess and extravagance while other suffer to provide it to you. Edited February 26 by GrimTuesday kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Would it be okay if he shot himself in the head to protest the Israeli invasion of Gaza? It would be a bit more confusing as an intended message given the history of using it. Would it be okay if he did a hunger strike until he died? What form of nonviolent protest involving self sacrifice is acceptable to you? And if he did any of those, would you be even remotely talking about it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Kalbear said: It would be a bit more confusing as an intended message given the history of using it. Would it be okay if he did a hunger strike until he died? What form of nonviolent protest involving self sacrifice is acceptable to you? And if he did any of those, would you be even remotely talking about it now? How about most that don’t involve suicide. And are we talking about Gaza or this man killing himself? Because the later isn’t what his actions were supposed to be about… right? Edited February 26 by Ser Scot A Ellison Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: How about most that don’t involve suicide. Like signing petitions? Tweeting? Other forms of slacktivism? Have any of those ever been able to really draw attention to a cause outside of the people who were already paying attention to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Like signing petitions? Tweeting? Other forms of slacktivism? Have any of those ever been able to really draw attention to a cause outside of the people who were already paying attention to it? Are we talking about Gaza or this man’s suicide? Because they aren’t the same thing. (As for attention how many threads on Gaza have there been here? It is constantly in the news.) Edited February 26 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Are we talking about Gaza or this man’s suicide? Because they aren’t the same thing. I’m talking about self-immolation as a form of protest that has been used for centuries throughout the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Are we talking about Gaza or this man’s suicide? Because they aren’t the same thing. (As for attention how many threads on Gaza have their been here? It is constantly in the news.) Well we've been instructed not to discuss Gaza so maybe that's got something to do with the way this discussion in this particular thread has been going. Maybe something be constantly in the news while the world looked on asking nicely for it to stop seemed absurd to this person. Rippounet and kissdbyfire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I’m talking about self-immolation as a form of protest that has been used for centuries throughout the world. And how is that bringing attention to Gaza? I’m never going to be a fan of suicide. Mr. Chatywin et al. and Jace, Extat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Maybe something be constantly in the news while the world looked on asking nicely for it to stop seemed absurd to this person. Should we send in US troops to seperate the combatants? And for the record everyone who is pushing for “from the River to the Sea” be they Likud or Hamas… sucks. Edited February 26 by Ser Scot A Ellison Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 30 minutes ago, Kalbear said: So please, do show your work here - what of your suggestions has shown any meaningful outcome to what he was protesting? How many online protests have helped? Can you even point to one? How have donations helped when aid is being denied right now? As far as I can tell you're happy with the idea of working towards something that they can't possibly influence in any way as long as it doesn't inconvenience you in some way, but you're not okay with something that actually generates attention. Show your work. How does setting yourself on fire help? You're inconveniencing a lot of people and now your family has to morn your death. It's not like you're going to change people's opinions. Just make those close to you sadder. Quote As @kissdbyfire pointed out this is a very old form of protest that has been done for quite a while across the entire world, and signifies a very specific kind of final message. I don't need to defend or rationalize his behavior because history has already done so, but I wasn't doing either; I especially don't need to wrongly state it isn't altruism because I don't like the cause it represents. I'll say it another way: in today's world where attention is one of the most highly sought-after resources that exist and things like online protest are quite possibly the least effective way of doing anything, doing something that generates front page news across the US is quite easily one of the most effective means of protest one can do; doing so in a way that harms no one else to any particular extent and is a form of nonviolent protest even more so. It's not altruistic because it's not actually helping. Adopting a refugee would be way more helpful than setting yourself on fire. Praising the act is pretty strange when there's so many other ways to help that would have been far more productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 30 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Have you considered that he maybe he set himself on fire because felt there was no other way to have a 'meaningful outcome'? It is not a spur of the moment choice. I doubt he just looked at the news one day and went 'right, time to burn myself to death!'. We don't really know that. And he felt like that's the best way to make a meaningful impact, perhaps he was not in a good state of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Should we send in US troops to seperate the combatants? And for the record everyone who is pushing for “from the River to the Sea” be they Likud or Hamas… sucks. What's the point of this question Scot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said: What's the point of this question Scot? What do you want the US to do? And I’ll drop the subject after this. Edited February 26 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 12 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I’m talking about self-immolation as a form of protest that has been used for centuries throughout the world. That's like justifying stupid religious beliefs because they've existed for a long time. In a month no one will remember his name and it will have no impact on the war. Only his family will remember and forever feel the pain. Edited February 26 by Mr. Chatywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: What do you want the US to do? Couple of things off the top of head… Stop vetoing UN resolutions? Stop sending bombs and ammo and who knows what else? Don’t go out of your way and be one of 3 countries (I think?) to defend the indefensible at the ICJ? Craving Peaches, Ser Scot A Ellison, Larry of the Lawn and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: That's like justifying stupid religious beliefs because they've existed for a long time. In a month no one will remember his name and it will have no impact on the war. Only his family will remember and forever feel the pain. The link I posted has a long list of persons who used self-immolation as a form of political protest, specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: The link I posted has a long list of persons who used self-immolation as a form of political protest, specifically. And my guess is less than .1% of the world's population can name three of them off the top of their head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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