LongRider Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Live updates for Trump's hush money trial. Trump trial live updates: Judge denies motion to recuse himself (msn.com) Former President Donald Trump is on trial in New York City, where he is facing felony charges related to a 2016 hush money payment to adult film actress Stormy Daniels. It marks the first time in history that a former U.S. president has been tried on criminal charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Wahhhhhhhht? Do even They known what They mean? Trump supporters echo pro-Palestinian ‘genocide Joe’ chant It’s unclear what they meant by it, as Trump has pledged similarly strong support for Israel https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/14/genocide-israel-gaza-iran-trump-biden/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 16 minutes ago, Zorral said: Wahhhhhhhht? Do even They known what They mean? Trump supporters echo pro-Palestinian ‘genocide Joe’ chant It’s unclear what they meant by it, as Trump has pledged similarly strong support for Israel https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/14/genocide-israel-gaza-iran-trump-biden/ Perhaps giving shouting points to Trumpanistas is a bad thing for the left to do? Zorral 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Perhaps giving shouting points to Trumpanistas is a bad thing for the left to do? Perhaps supporting war crimes is a bad thing to do? Durckad and Zorral 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 4 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Perhaps supporting war crimes is a bad thing to do? Is Biden “supporting war crimes”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 18 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Is Biden “supporting war crimes”? That's the viewpoint of those left folks who are calling him genocide Joe. My point is that if you're afraid of criticizing your leaders because the other side may use that as ammunition you've got a lot bigger problems than them using your own slogans against you. DireWolfSpirit and Larry of the Lawn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 20 minutes ago, Kalbear said: That's the viewpoint of those left folks who are calling him genocide Joe. My point is that if you're afraid of criticizing your leaders because the other side may use that as ammunition you've got a lot bigger problems than them using your own slogans against you. They’re helping Trump and his supporters. Including rather nasty anti-semites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: They’re helping Trump and his supporters. Including rather nasty anti-semites. Again, this means that literally there is no criticism of your leader because the other side might use it against that person. That is an obviously illiberal viewpoint. It is quite remarkable to me to see what values get left by the wayside when people are afraid. So I guess the response I have is - so what? Many of them are more than well aware that Trump will be harmful to their lives, possibly far more directly than it will be to yours. Telling people whose families and friends are being killed that they should be quiet because their anger, displeasure and choice of expression might not be politically expedient for you is...well, that's definitely something. DireWolfSpirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Again, this means that literally there is no criticism of your leader because the other side might use it against that person. That is an obviously illiberal viewpoint. It is quite remarkable to me to see what values get left by the wayside when people are afraid. So I guess the response I have is - so what? Many of them are more than well aware that Trump will be harmful to their lives, possibly far more directly than it will be to yours. Telling people whose families and friends are being killed that they should be quiet because their anger, displeasure and choice of expression might not be politically expedient for you is...well, that's definitely something. There is a difference between criticism and chanting “Genocide Joe” in the streets giving ammunition to people who want to hurt them and who wouldn’t blink if Bibi nuked Gaza city. Biden is a long way from perfect but he is trying to restrain Israel in ways Trump never would. The way they criticize Biden is short sighted and self defeating in my opinion. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: There is a difference between criticism and chanting “Genocide Joe” in the streets giving ammunition to people who want to hurt them and who wouldn’t blink if Bibi nuked Gaza city. Biden is a long way from perfect but he is trying to restrain Israel in ways Trump never would. The way they criticize Biden is short sighted and self defeating in my opinion. I don't think there is any difference. Unless you're really believing that a specific slogan is going to make a major difference compared to nuanced criticism - and I guess that's your prerogative - the slogan only has power because of the inference of it actually being linked to real issues that matter and have some facts. Do you think that "Joe supports war crimes" is going to be somehow massively ineffective? This seems to say that you shouldn't criticize, or you shouldn't criticize in any way that might harm the candidate of your choice, or you shouldn't criticize if I think that it might be a problem. Maybe they shouldn't criticize on message boards dedicated to a fantasy novel! Ultimately there is no place or form of criticism that cannot be weaponized, which means you are against criticism. And you may be right that it is self-defeating if you think that their goals are aligned with yours. As pointed out in another linked video upthread if the choice is between orange hitler and genocide Joe the solution may be not to support a system that gives those as the only two options. Larry of the Lawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The way they criticize Biden is short sighted and self defeating in my opinion. Do you think the people who are protesting against the Biden administration irt its positions on the war aren’t aware that Trump will be worse and worse for them more so than your average white American? I think they’re very aware of that, especially b/c they’ve already had 4 years of trump and know a 2nd term would be significantly worse. Larry of the Lawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Do you think the people who are protesting against the Biden administration irt its positions on the war aren’t aware that Trump will be worse and worse for them more so than your average white American? I think they’re very aware of that, especially b/c they’ve already had 4 years of trump and know a 2nd term would be significantly worse. They aren’t behaving, as far as I can tell, as if they know that. But, as Kalbear points out perhaps I don’t understand why they equate Trump and Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: They aren’t behaving, as far as I can tell, as if they know that. But, as Kalbear points out perhaps I don’t understand why they equate Trump and Biden. I don't think they equate the two. I think that at least some of them refuse to participate or align in a system that forces the choices of killing their loved ones or killing their loved ones but also feeling kinda bad about it. They would rather fight that system than choose a slightly more palatable choice. And no, that doesn't mean picking a third party; that means not participating in the system as it is at all, and trying to bring down that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: They aren’t behaving, as far as I can tell, as if they know that. But, as Kalbear points out perhaps I don’t understand why they equate Trump and Biden. I find it hard to believe that they don’t know how bad Trump is; again, they’ve already lived through 4 years of that hell. Mind you, that doesn’t apply to all who are protesting b/c as far as I understand it, this is not a position that only Muslims and/or Arab Americans have. So one could argue that the younger zoomers who strongly oppose Biden’s position on the war aren’t really aware of how bad Trump is. Another thing is, I really don’t think they equate Trump and Biden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 5 minutes ago, Kalbear said: And no, that doesn't mean picking a third party; that means not participating in the system as it is at all, and trying to bring down that system. If the US is “brought down” what happens to Palestinians without the US there to attempt to restrain the Israeli government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: If the US is “brought down” what happens to Palestinians without the US there to attempt to restrain the Israeli government? Why do you think that the US (or whatever replaces it) would not be more involved in being against Israel? The cheeky answer is 'the same thing that is already happening, but at least it wouldn't be US bombs'. The US has shown very little ability to restrain Israel as it is, but even assuming that they are doing a fine job of it they are also selling bombs and planes - the same bombs and planes being used right now to do drone strikes and airstrikes on world kitchen workers and food distributions. And yes, it could be worse and I'm usually quite happy to say that you shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of the good. That said I'm not really going to condemn people who are quite unhappy because their government is facilitating the deaths of their families, and I'm really not going to chastise them about a fucking slogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 27 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: If the US is “brought down” what happens to Palestinians without the US there to attempt to restrain the Israeli government? What's happening now, but faster. Was that supposed to be a trick question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Is Biden “supporting war crimes”? Yes, or at the very least enabling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 29 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: If the US is “brought down” what happens to Palestinians without the US there to attempt to restrain the Israeli government? To many on the pro Palestenian side, the US is not so much a restrainer as an enabler. Israel can rely on US weapons tech and aid, as well as a permanent security council vote, and thus far the only price is a bit of diplomatic tut-tuting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 In the meantime for those terrified that peer pressure is forcing kids to want to identify differently than their birth assigned gender identity, it got me thinking about what is in the headlines every day of women attacked and killed every day around the world, one cannot help speculating upon The Screwfly Solution By James Tiptree Jr., first published in Analog. There has been a rise in men killing women in the modern-day world. Scientists desperately try to understand why this phenomenon is occurring and must do everything in their power to stop this before all of humanity becomes extinct. Sexism, Hate, Mental Illness: Why Are Men Randomly Punching Women? Conversation about the attacks on the streets of New York have centered on mental illness, but the offenses seem to have their roots in hatred of women. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/nyregion/new-york-city-random-attacks-women.html Femicide surge: the Cycladic figures found in the Aegean show a deep respect for the female body. How did Greece lose this? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/apr/15/femicide-surge-cycladic-figures-greece Quote .... This particularly hit home when I was in Athens, as the headlines were dominated by the recent upsurge in femicides. Protesters have been taking to the streets to campaign for femicide to be recognised as a distinct crime in Greece. This came after the killing of a 28-year-old woman, Kyriaki Griva, apparently by her former partner, when pleading for help from the police outside a station in western Attica. There have also been numerous reports of violence against women, including one case in January in which a 41-year-old pregnant woman was allegedly murdered by her partner and his friend. .... Man punches child in Grand Central week after breaking woman's nose: police https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/grand-central-attacker-arrested-again/5318950/ Just 3 examples from the weekend. DireWolfSpirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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