Bloodraven, Bran, and the Old Gods

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Took a break for a while because no wifi or mobile reception and these threads are the delights I am greeted with...

Well, seemed better for awhile, then back to the same old grind.   

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Took a break for a while because no wifi or mobile reception and these threads are the delights I am greeted with...

Well one of us is cursed, or both of us. Because I was gone for a while too, but would occasionally check in to find some really interesting discussions being held. I only just came back a couple weeks ago and I feel like the Gingerbread man sobbing whilst being forced to listen to Farquaad share his theories about how the evil Starks are the greatest threat to the 7 kingdoms because they *looks at notes* break rules.

Edited April 26 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[Craving Peaches]

10 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I only just came back a couple weeks ago and I feel like the Gingerbread man sobbing whilst being forced to listen to Farquaad share his theories about how the evil Starks are the greatest threat to the 7 kingdoms because they *looks at notes* break rules.

With the numbers of these threads and how ceaseless the legions of Stark haters are, I feel like Gingy being chased by all the zombified clones of his girlfriend in Scared Shrekless.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:06 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Bloodraven has a plan to save the people of Westeros. 

Leaf - "In the world that men have made, there is no room for (direwolves), or us."

Is man the real threat?  One would think from what we're getting from Leaf. Then the following is contradictory to that argument.  Bloodraven wants to save all.

"(Bloodraven) has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers.  For us, for you, for the realms of men."

"When (singers) died, they went into the wood, into leaf limb and root, and the trees remembered.  All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew of this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods.  The singers believe they are the old gods.  When singers die they become a part of that Godhood."

Bloodraven means to save all by migrating their memories and knowledge into the trees.  That's what his plan sounds like to me.  I changed my mind about Bran's future after reading this chapter.  I used to think Bran will survive through the story and live at the end.  I don't think that anymore.  I now think his body will die and he will achieve that Godhood when he joins the hive minds inside the trees.  But there is trouble down the road.

"Never fear the darkness, Bran.  The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.  Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

All alone in the dark watching the human drama through the eyes of the trees and the ravens.  That is Bran's future.  And Bran seems to slowly accept it as his dreams of knighthood slowly evaporates in the gloom of the cave.  There is trouble though.  Bran continues to violate one of the ethics of skinchanging.  He keeps forcing himself into the poor stable boy and spies on the Reeds.  He begins to develop strong feelings for Meera Reed.  I think this is what will turn Bran from the potential greenseer who will save everyone into a selfish boy who will use his power to do harm.  Already he has eaten human flesh through his direwolf.  Bran is slowly becoming bad. 

 

He has already become a cannibal through his direwolf.  The next stage through the tree.  He will feed on the blood of the sacrificial victims.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:21 PM, Pontius Pilate said:

BR holds no hope for mankind and threw in the towel if this is his best plan.  It's not a bad plan.  He saves the ghosts of all in Westeros and make them part of the data stored in the tree network.  He saves the trees at the same time because no humans will mean no more cutting trees.  Jon will be the first to live after losing his body and finding a new home in his Direwolf.  Ghost is indeed a fitting name for the dw.  The Direwolf will be Jon's ghost from here on.  He gets to live as an individual in the wolf instead of joining a collective entity inside the trees.  He's always been somewhat of a lone wolf.  

Weirwoods are not the Old Gods. The OGs are hidden underground sucking blood through the trees.  We are told in history when Allysanne and Jaeherys outlawed the first night and built a buffer zone between the lords' fief and the Wall.  Must have also outlawed human sacrifice.  The OGs got by because Craster was sacrificing for the realm.  His absence is a problem for the OGs.  I think Mormont sort of understood the necessity of what Craster did.  He just can't explain it to his people because it's an awkward truth.  The peace will break if or when Mellissandre sacrifices Craster's son.  The boy is a son of Ice and a close kin of the Starks.  It's a terrible insult to sacrifice a pure Stark blood to R'hllor.  The boy has been promised to the Others since the day he was born.  

 

Jon Snow "has been promised to the Others since the day he was born."  He is more Stark compared to Robb and Bran.  He has the northern look and the wild temperament.  We know the decree forbade the lord's right to the first night and distanced the wall from the rest of the north because of the Gift.  That did not stop the north from doing what they had.  Roose said old traditions die hard and we know he continued.  If Roose was doing it so were the other lords.  They were just careful to keep it to themselves.  It is even possible Alaric was giving human sacrifices to the Stark's weirwood under the nose of Queen Allyssane.  He could say, "Oh it is only sheep blood my lady. To honor the tree."  Allyssane would not know he was serving dinner to his Stark ancestors.

Edited April 28 by James Fenimore Cooper XXII

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 4/15/2024 at 7:06 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Bloodraven has a plan to save the people of Westeros. 

Leaf - "In the world that men have made, there is no room for (direwolves), or us."

Is man the real threat?  One would think from what we're getting from Leaf. Then the following is contradictory to that argument.  Bloodraven wants to save all.

"(Bloodraven) has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers.  For us, for you, for the realms of men."

"When (singers) died, they went into the wood, into leaf limb and root, and the trees remembered.  All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew of this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods.  The singers believe they are the old gods.  When singers die they become a part of that Godhood."

Bloodraven means to save all by migrating their memories and knowledge into the trees.  That's what his plan sounds like to me.  I changed my mind about Bran's future after reading this chapter.  I used to think Bran will survive through the story and live at the end.  I don't think that anymore.  I now think his body will die and he will achieve that Godhood when he joins the hive minds inside the trees.  But there is trouble down the road.

"Never fear the darkness, Bran.  The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.  Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

All alone in the dark watching the human drama through the eyes of the trees and the ravens.  That is Bran's future.  And Bran seems to slowly accept it as his dreams of knighthood slowly evaporates in the gloom of the cave.  There is trouble though.  Bran continues to violate one of the ethics of skinchanging.  He keeps forcing himself into the poor stable boy and spies on the Reeds.  He begins to develop strong feelings for Meera Reed.  I think this is what will turn Bran from the potential greenseer who will save everyone into a selfish boy who will use his power to do harm.  Already he has eaten human flesh through his direwolf.  Bran is slowly becoming bad. 

 

Bran will begin using Hodor's body to commit horrible acts if nobody stops him.  The size of Hodor make him dangerous.  Bran inside Hodor's head make him more dangerous.  

[Northern Sword]

6 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Bran will begin using Hodor's body to commit horrible acts if nobody stops him.  The size of Hodor make him dangerous.  Bran inside Hodor's head make him more dangerous.  

Yes, yes, Evil crippled Bran "using" Hodor for unspeakable atrocities... As long as he holds the door tho :)

[Craving Peaches]

8 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Bran will begin using Hodor's body to commit horrible acts if nobody stops him.  The size of Hodor make him dangerous.  Bran inside Hodor's head make him more dangerous.  

Daenerys will begin using Drogon to commit horrible acts if no one stops her. The size of Dragon make him dangerous. Daenerys riding him make him more dangerous.

[Ring3r]

On 4/14/2024 at 7:06 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Bloodraven has a plan to save the people of Westeros. 

Leaf - "In the world that men have made, there is no room for (direwolves), or us."

Is man the real threat?  One would think from what we're getting from Leaf. Then the following is contradictory to that argument.  Bloodraven wants to save all.

"(Bloodraven) has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers.  For us, for you, for the realms of men."

"When (singers) died, they went into the wood, into leaf limb and root, and the trees remembered.  All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew of this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods.  The singers believe they are the old gods.  When singers die they become a part of that Godhood."

Bloodraven means to save all by migrating their memories and knowledge into the trees.  That's what his plan sounds like to me.  I changed my mind about Bran's future after reading this chapter.  I used to think Bran will survive through the story and live at the end.  I don't think that anymore.  I now think his body will die and he will achieve that Godhood when he joins the hive minds inside the trees.  But there is trouble down the road.

"Never fear the darkness, Bran.  The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.  Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

All alone in the dark watching the human drama through the eyes of the trees and the ravens.  That is Bran's future.  And Bran seems to slowly accept it as his dreams of knighthood slowly evaporates in the gloom of the cave.  There is trouble though.  Bran continues to violate one of the ethics of skinchanging.  He keeps forcing himself into the poor stable boy and spies on the Reeds.  He begins to develop strong feelings for Meera Reed.  I think this is what will turn Bran from the potential greenseer who will save everyone into a selfish boy who will use his power to do harm.  Already he has eaten human flesh through his direwolf.  Bran is slowly becoming bad. 

 

This is probably the most confusing topic in the entire series.  Bran becoming king is confirmed by GRRM.....but....king of what?  King of Westeros?  Or the new Night's King?  King of Winter?  It would be very much GRRM's style to say Bran becomes king....but leave out what he is King of.

For that matter...even if Bran did become the new Night's King....does that make Bran bad?  We don't know, because we don't know why the Others came back in the first place.  We don't know why they came into being either. Clearly they are meant to fight something.....but is that dragons?  Or was it the Bloodstone Emperor?  Maybe Euron's birth (3 years prior to the tragedy at summerhall) woke them?  Euron mirrors the Bloodstone Emperor in his actions...

We just don't know.

Edited 21 hours ago by Ring3r