Jon Targaryen Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I thought the killers were the Others. That psychoanalyst Other said Ben is right where he wants to be. Perhaps Ben has some way of communicating with his people. The boat people are still stuck on the boat anyway, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul on Ice and Fire Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Ben. Have I mentioned I hate him? But he's amazing. He's a master manipulator. And these people were SO cruel to Michael. (This makes it sound like I like Michael or approve of him. I don't. I never have. But I still don't think he's the worst person ever, or that he deserves this.) That's a good point about the cruelty of the Others toward Michael. None of the other survivors ever saw how he was being pushed by Ben. They probably just think he cut the deal on his own. ETA: Ben is SO fucking full of shit. He gassed the entire Dharma Initiative. Now he's trying to tell Michael he's a nice guy who only kills when necessary? Is this where the helicopter pilot went to? On a "recon" mission with some of the guys who were practicing shooting things? It seems like it's the most likely. None of the people on the Island heard or saw the helicopter. None of the weapons practice involved silenced weapons either. When Michael went down to his cabin and brought the bomb out the sound of gunfire was very distinctive. The weapon practice makes it look like there are more combat oriented types as well. Big Bugger certainly looked the part. Still strange that they sent in the Freighter Four first. I'd say Widmore. I mean, I know Ben is a liar, but I really don't think he faked the crash. But they both have good motives for doing it: Ben to protect the island, and Widmore to protect the island from anyone but him finding it. My money is on Widmore. It would have taken Ben more time to find out which flight crashed, gotten to the Flame(?), transmitted his orders to the off Island people etc than it would have for Widmore. It also takes way more than 3.2 million to set that up. Also: Anyone else laugh when it came to the list request? I can see Ben ordering someone to make a list of lists. Pretty cool that Miles knew Michael was lying - my best guess is he could see Libby following him. And it was awesome how she was bringing him blankets in the hospital - since she died going to get blankets for Hurley and her. She was wicked creepy this time around. Wow, nice catch on the blankets! I think Miles is communicating with some other ghosts for the amount of money that Ben can get. I think Miles is going to get whacked by Ben as well. and I forgot that the helicopter was gone. Speaking of helicopters...someone upthread mentioned that there should be two helicopters...because Naomi jumped out of one that crashed. But in the flashback this episode, it's clear there was ever only 1 helicopter. Did Naomi's really crash (I thought it the folks on the island saw it crash in the ocean as Naomi parachuted down)? It only looks like one helicopter from Micheal's flashback. There might have been a large shipping container on the freighter as well. Maybe it contained a small two seat copter of some sort. And lastly...Tom...gay?!?! Didn't see that one! It was alluded to when Kate was first captured and showering. ETA: How did none of the freighter people recognize Michael? Come one, Frank should have recognized him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulofritter Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well Tom did tell Kate that she 'wasn't his type', so it's no big surprise to me. I was expecting it. SPOILER: A spoiler that will likely never make it onscreen. In an early magazine interview, the writers discussed revealing one of the major characters as homosexual. Though there was some speculation about Boone, they more or less confirmed that it would be Michael. Michael's relationship problems in his first flashback episode fit with this. Also betting that a third party planted the wreckage, to force a confrontation between Widmore and the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieStone Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 It was alluded to when Kate was first captured and showering. Yeah...I'd forgotten about that line. Didn't think much of it at the time...just seemed like more condescending attitude from the Others towards the crash survivors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I thought the killers were the Others. That psychoanalyst Other said Ben is right where he wants to be. Perhaps Ben has some way of communicating with his people. The boat people are still stuck on the boat anyway, right? My first assumption was that it was Ben's people who shot Carl and Danielle. The fact that Alex wasn't hit, or seemingly a target bears this out for me. Did the timeline for Michael's time back on the mainland work for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regina Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 As for the shooting at the end...I'm not sure Danielle is necessarily dead. The shot that hit her was in the lower right abdomen...they can have her survive that. Rosseau may not necceasrily be dead if the island decides that she has more work to do, as is the case with Michael and what was evidently the case with Patchy. I'm not counting her out yet, either. I think (hope) the island will keep her alive. Heck, she survived out there on her own for so many years, despite all the odds. I don't think she would have lasted so long if the island didn't have more plans for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'm not counting her out yet, either. I think (hope) the island will keep her alive. Heck, she survived out there on her own for so many years, despite all the odds. I don't think she would have lasted so long if the island didn't have more plans for her. Unless those plans were to lead Alex to that spot... Though how about the interesting aspect of the Island not letting Michael go, even after he was off it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Unless those plans were to lead Alex to that spot... Though how about the interesting aspect of the Island not letting Michael go, even after he was off it...? Fits in with the future version of Jack who (apparently) kept trying to commit suicide and kept getting distracted or interfered with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Kilimaro Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 My first assumption was that it was Ben's people who shot Carl and Danielle. The fact that Alex wasn't hit, or seemingly a target bears this out for me. I had the sad feeling the episode might be going down that road when Ben was talking about how the Temple "isn't for everyone", and he says it in this way that means it's just for the Others. But Danielle is not and never was one of them. That's precisely the kind of trick that Ben would pull, although it does make you wonder just how he pulled it off. Anyway, the way that the episode ended certainly gave me the impression that it was the Others who did in Carl and Danielle. Rousseau, in particular, certainly seemed like she knew that she was about to die when she told Alex to run and that Alex was probably not going to die right there. Plus creepy jungle shit is right up the Others' alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanrn Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well it sounded like Silenced Mp5's semi auto to me. 1 Shooter it looked like though which was odd. Plus all the Other equipment is 70/80s or so Military surplus. They still came woefully undermanned, what was that like 4-6 people in tactical vests playing with mp5s. If the Losties hadn't inflicted a fair few castualties on the Others they wouldn't stand a chance and I don't think they are much better off now. Also that wasn't creepy jungle shit, no whispering, middle of the day, good weather, silenced weapons, thats just people with a degree of combat training or experience of hunting. Who know how to move with some degree of silence and hide in 5 foot tall thick grass. That thing with the flag in the boomb was just nasty. I still don't get why you they dropped Naomi unarmed and alone onto the island when she was ment to be protecting the other 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-for-Joffrey Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I still don't get why you they dropped Naomi unarmed and alone onto the island when she was ment to be protecting the other 4. Maybe she was supposed to find Ben before everyone else landed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 ETA: Ben is SO fucking full of shit. He gassed the entire Dharma Initiative. Now he's trying to tell Michael he's a nice guy who only kills when necessary? We still don't have the faintest idea what the Dharma Initiative were doing on the Island, though. But if the information from the Lost Experience is any indication, it wasn't at all benevolent. That was also fifteen years ago, and he was talking in the present tense. I'm torn on who shot Rousseau and Karl. Part of me says it's the people from the boat because they'd have every incentive to want to capture Alex, and otherwise the scene with the clay pigeons is a bit of a red herring. But I can certainly see why the Others would want those two dead as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 As an aside...I laughed at how the producers wanted to show Walt, so we get the brief glance of him behind the curtains...and it's still obvious as hell that he's 3 years older and twice his original size. It looked like a completely different actor to me. My first assumption was that it was Ben's people who shot Carl and Danielle. The fact that Alex wasn't hit, or seemingly a target bears this out for me. Did the timeline for Michael's time back on the mainland work for everyone? The timeline is very tight: Michael and Walt would have had to have flown to NYC straight from Fiji, gone their seperate ways almost immediately, then for Michael to have been recruited by Tom within 1-2 weeks at the most, then for him to have flown back to Fiji and gotten onto the freighter. It's within the boundaries of the possible, certainly. My main concern was Tom: he was pretty much around for most or all of Season 3 and I'm not sure if there was a large enough gap for him take off to NYC in the middle of it all. The writers are generally pretty good with the timeline, though, so it should track. As for the cliffhanger, from Ausiello: SPOILER: LostYes, yes... somebody dies... but TWO are shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 The timeline is very tight: Michael and Walt would have had to have flown to NYC straight from Fiji, gone their seperate ways almost immediately, then for Michael to have been recruited by Tom within 1-2 weeks at the most, then for him to have flown back to Fiji and gotten onto the freighter. It's within the boundaries of the possible, certainly. My main concern was Tom: he was pretty much around for most or all of Season 3 and I'm not sure if there was a large enough gap for him take off to NYC in the middle of it all. The writers are generally pretty good with the timeline, though, so it should track. My other problem: The injuries Michale seemed to have sustained from the car crash...seemed to heal REALLY fast...didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Your thinking too hard about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanrn Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 "Its the Island"! Can be used to explain alot of things, although not the stupidity of the Wildmore lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Ben showed someone (cant remember who) a tape of Whidmore and his goons beating some guy up. But there is a part where Whidmore looks into the camera like he knows it's there. I think Ben and Whidmore are in cahoots tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Some interesting info in from DarkUFO's site: Apparently the writers got together 2 weeks before the strike and created a 'battle plan' for how to end Season 4 in a worst-case scenario, namely if they only got a couple of episodes after the strike. Apparently the assumption was that the strike would go on much longer. The writers therefore getting 5 episodes to tell the story is apparently a Very Good Thing and it means that in terms of the plans they had it was a case of expanding them to fill 5, rather than shrinking them down from 8 to 5. It also appears likely that the remaining 3 eps will be used to create double-length eps in Seasons 5 and 6 rather than bloating out the episode orders for those seasons. However, the truncated episode order does mean that some harsh decisions have had to be made: SPOILER: Lost Season 4Apparently certain characters like Sawyer and Claire won't get centric episodes this year at all, and the need to further the Oceanic Six's story means we'll likely get more flash-forwards of Kate, Sayid, Jack and Hurley, if not Sun as well. That probably accounts for the remainder of the season with no-one else getting a centric ep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 so is anyone else suffering from withdrawal yet? I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that there are no more episodes until the end of this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Nope BSG will more than satisfactorily fill the gap. Unless it sucks massively of course, but I have faith they'll get things back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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