Lost Season 4 Part Deux

[All-for-Joffrey]

So all Jacob wanted was Sawyer and Kate? To get locked up together and make a baby, presumably.

Later in season 3 Mikhal (Patchy) explains to Sayid, Kate and John that none of them are on Jacob's lists for various reasons. Sayid and Kate are obvious because they've killed people, so Jacob/the island won't want to have much to do with them (thus, neither Jack, Sawyer nor Kate were on Jacob's list). However, I wonder if Ben lied about John being on the list because he saw him as a threat to his position with Jacob. Mikhal's reason for John not being on the list was that he was "too angry," but I kind of doubt this because of Jacob's later interaction with John in the season. I think the jobs of Ethan and Goodwin were to match up who survived the crash with people who were on Jacob's lists and make cases for other people who weren't on the list but would be good additions to the Others. Maybe not the last part but because Ben said that's what Goodwin was doing, and there's usually some element of truth to what Ben says (even though he clearly exxagreated and no doubt instructed him to look into Ana Lucia and the other tailies further), I would imagine that was part of their job. I am kind of annoyed about how long they've dragged this whole list business out though.

[Werthead]

Ben has reached a whole new level of creepyness.

Agreed. I think after the end of last season people were thinking that Jacob was the 'big bad' and Ben merely his flunky, and Ben's importance would drop once Jacob was in play more. Of course, now it looks like we're getting to the point of delineating 'sides' in the story and it looks like Ben may be the 'big bad' after all. And I really liked it that Jack found out just how evil and ruthless Ben is (preparing to gas the Island, claiming Juliet as his own) just as Locke decides to trust him. A very nice piece of writing there.

[Fatuous]

Agreed. I think after the end of last season people were thinking that Jacob was the 'big bad' and Ben merely his flunky, and Ben's importance would drop once Jacob was in play more. Of course, now it looks like we're getting to the point of delineating 'sides' in the story and it looks like Ben may be the 'big bad' after all. And I really liked it that Jack found out just how evil and ruthless Ben is (preparing to gas the Island, claiming Juliet as his own) just as Locke decides to trust him. A very nice piece of writing there.

Well, a distorted view will do that. I'm more on Locke and Ben's side because so far, Ben has very little to do with bringing things and people to the Island, like killer gas, animals and machines. Does Juliet really look like Ben's old girlfriend? I suppose he must have spared her during the purge, they hooked up and she got pregnant...

You can see where that would go. And why Ben would do some of the things he did. Every monster has an origin story.

You're choosing to side with Charlotte's story and Juliet's POV without even seeing Ben's side of it. Interesting.

[Jaxom 1974]

You're choosing to side with Charlotte's story and Juliet's POV without even seeing Ben's side of it. Interesting.

Isn't that how the writers are leading us right now? We're not exactly seeing Ben's side or why he's doing what he's doing are we? Hard to side with the creepy guy when he's out to gas the island...

And was he out to gas the island? To what end? He wasn't exactly prepared for that right then, was he? Were the alarms going off because the gas was due to be released or because Faaday was messing with it?

[Plunja of Braavos]

RE: Lists

I think the lists Ben tells Goodwin and Jacob to get are different than Jacob's list. Goodwin and Ethan were just supposed to get the names of the survivors. This would allow Ben to get the files and dossiers on them. Once they knew who survived then Jacob's list is who he thinks is important for the island. So it is two different lists.

I am completely off Jack's side. His narrowmindedness in fulfilling his dream of getting everyone off the island is aggravating. I find Charlotte so annoying. I wish they would just kill her off already. Ben is creepy and while I like Locke I don't think he is an effective leader.

Right now the mysteries that most intrigue me are:

*Who is Jacob?

*Why does Hurley apologize to Jack for going with Locke?

*How does Sayid end up working for Ben off the island?

I have a friend who is catching up with Lost on DVD. She is on season 2 and watches 3-4 episodes in a row. She doesn't see what the big deal is. Also, she'll ask me questions and most of my replies are along the lines of "I don't know" or "They haven't answered that yet." Another friend is doing the same thing and thinks its great. I don't know. I am beginning to think that the allure of the show isn't necessarily the plot or the characters. It's the constant twists and new mysteries that add suspense week to week. That keeps it going when it doesn't make sense or they leave things unanswered. I am beginning to think the whole show may crumble if watched successively. The main excitement is waiting a another week to find out what happens next.

Who's watched earlier seasons in quick succession on DVD and is now watching it week to week? Which is better viewing?

[Isis]

I watched the second half of season three in a big chunk and I rediscovered my enjoyment of the show. I'd got to the point at the start of season three where I wasn't that fussed if I saw it from one week to the next.

It isn't so much about taking sides, re. Ben being fundamentally creepy. It's all these different levels of deceit he has on the go, and has had for years presumably. He could teach Sawyer a thing or two about the long con.

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

I'm starting to think the lists are a con. Presumably Jacob, the man behind the man behind the curtain, can look into someone's soul and see if they are good or not. Goodwin, who is at least a couple steps down in power, doesn't have that ability. If who was good enough to be on the list was up for debate it's impossible to rule off a bunch of people without meeting them. Goodwin is mysteriously transferring this argument back to Ben, who is presenting it to Jacob.

[Mexal]

Who's watched earlier seasons in quick succession on DVD and is now watching it week to week? Which is better viewing?

I watched Season 1 and 2 from DVD. I think I watched anywhere from 3-7 episodes in a row. I loved it.

I think it's a lot worse waiting week to week because not only do you have to deal with the week wait, but you have to deal with commercials as well. Lately, I've been waiting til Friday and downloading it so I can avoid the commercials.

Anyway, for most serial shows I've watched, getting all the episodes and watching them at your leisure is far more entertaining than watching it when it's on prime time. I did it with Lost, Prison Break, Firefly and Jericho.

[aeu]

Were the alarms going off because the gas was due to be released or because Faaday was messing with it?

From what I understand Ben had the gas ready to be used in case things go bad and Windmore / Dharma / Hanzo / (whoever his enemies are) come to capture the island. He wasn't releasing it yet, the freighter people just wanted to find and disable WMDs before the main occupation.

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

From what I understand Ben had the gas ready to be used in case things go bad and Windmore / Dharma / Hanzo / (whoever his enemies are) come to capture the island. He wasn't releasing it yet, the freighter people just wanted to find and disable WMDs before the main occupation.

So George Bush is his real enemy?

The Others are in cahoots with al Qaeda?

[Xanrn]

Well the crux of the matter, the Losties are a bunch of idiots who listen to who shouts the hardest.

Witness the Locke and Jack arguement "I'M RIGHT" "NO I AM" "NO I AM".

At that point someone with half a brain should have said "Shut the fuck up retards and think for a goddam second, we can't take the risk of either of you being wrong, so lets stop arguing and come up with a 3rd option" and then shot Ben in the face a few times.

Ben being alive is just so dumb, especially that idiot Locke, its like watching an organgrinder with his little bald monkey.

Also I think Jack has been stripped of his ability to trust anyone, but is not stupid enough to let everyone know he no longer trusts anyone.

He didn't trust thoose 2 were doing what they said they were doing, he just didn't want to push the arguement.

As for Harper her disappearing trick was hardly spooky, J&J looking the opposite direction for 30 seconds mean Hurley could pull that trick.

[Fatuous]

From what I understand Ben had the gas ready to be used in case things go bad and Windmore / Dharma / Hanzo / (whoever his enemies are) come to capture the island. He wasn't releasing it yet, the freighter people just wanted to find and disable WMDs before the main occupation.

And Dharma had the gas to use against hostiles or Hostiles, depends on how you look at it. So, how did the freighter people know about it? They even had a hand drawn map. And I would say that Ben didn't have it "ready" for his own use, he just kept it where Dharma left it and pretty much for the same reason.

None of this adds up. Both Ben's people and the Freighter people know about the 815 survivors, personal history and everything. Neither group trusts the survivors at all but they're trying to set them against the other faction. Jack's playing into the freighter people in the same way he fell in with Ben's group; he'll help anyone as long as he can get off the Island. At least Locke's consistant in his loyalty; He plays second banana to Ben and the Island as long as Locke can get some answers.

And I agree that both are failing as leaders. Too shortsighted.

[Demonblade]

Who's watched earlier seasons in quick succession on DVD and is now watching it week to week? Which is better viewing?

I watched the first two seasons on DVD and obviously watching sometimes 8 episodes in a row is better than watching it in prime time, what with all the commercials and waiting a whole week for each episode. But I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for in an answer. If you watch them successively, it's clear that there's some kind of plan going on, but with so many things going on at once, waiting for one thing to be made clearer is frustrating when you have to wait so long for each episode when watching on prime time. On the DVD viewings, it's obvious to me that instead of fucking with the viewers, the makers of the show are trying to give some time on everything, not on one thing all at once. Personally I never got the whole "OMG they're making it up as they go along!!" thing because it's obvious to me that this isn't the case.

[HokieStone]

As for Harper her disappearing trick was hardly spooky, J&J looking the opposite direction for 30 seconds mean Hurley could pull that trick.

Except that they only looked away for 3-5 seconds, and they were in a fairly clear area, which means they would have seen her dashing off though the woods at the very least. Combine that with all the whispers when she first showed up, and there's obviously something a little "supernatural" (for lack of a better word at the moment) about her appearance.

[Mexal]

Except that they only looked away for 3-5 seconds, and they were in a fairly clear area, which means they would have seen her dashing off though the woods at the very least. Combine that with all the whispers when she first showed up, and there's obviously something a little "supernatural" (for lack of a better word at the moment) about her appearance.

Maybe she just ducked?

[Blaine]

On the DVD viewings, it's obvious to me that instead of fucking with the viewers, the makers of the show are trying to give some time on everything, not on one thing all at once. Personally I never got the whole "OMG they're making it up as they go along!!" thing because it's obvious to me that this isn't the case.

I don't know about that. I'm not sure how DVD viewings would fix that fact that the writers obviously had no idea what to do with:

Boone, Shannon, Michael, Walt, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie and pretty much everyone else they've killed off.

[Shryke]

I don't know about that. I'm not sure how DVD viewings would fix that fact that the writers obviously had no idea what to do with:

Boone, Shannon, Michael, Walt, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie and pretty much everyone else they've killed off.

Some of those they simply didn't have much else to do with, others the actors wanted out, others they killed for extra effect, and so on. All those deaths are for a variety of reasons.

The only place it's obvious they were a bit lost was mid Season 2, where they didn't seem to really seemed to be spinning their wheels and killing time.

[aeu]

I don't know about that. I'm not sure how DVD viewings would fix that fact that the writers obviously had no idea what to do with:

Boone, Shannon, Michael, Walt, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie and pretty much everyone else they've killed off.

Don't forget the fact that Ben was suppossed to be dead after a couple of episodes.

I watched Season 2 on DVD in a relatively short time and the rest as it aired. To me watching on DVD worked much better, but a) You don't get to follow the weekly discussion. It's getting very very hard to avoid being spoiled if you wait until the DVDs come out.

[Shryke]

Don't forget the fact that Ben was suppossed to be dead after a couple of episodes.

Eh, they liked the actor. So they made him the LEADER of the Others, instead of just one of them.

[Demonblade]

I don't know about that. I'm not sure how DVD viewings would fix that fact that the writers obviously had no idea what to do with:

Boone, Shannon, Michael, Walt, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, Charlie and pretty much everyone else they've killed off.

Snide comments aside, it's obvious that with the exception of Libby and possibly Eko, of all of those characters they killed off (as far as I know, Michael and Walt weren't killed, btw), the writers didn't have much purpose to keep them on the show, and in many cases showed that Lost is willing to kill off characters to further illustrate the dangers the crash survivors face. Boone is a primary example of this.