Lost Season 4 Part Deux

[Zulofritter]

See the link in my signature if you're having trouble wrapping your head around time travel.

[Shryke]

Did he see the cards before hand or not? I thought it was a different kind of test, more like the ESP test from Ghostbusters.

The dialogue implies that , yes he did. He just can't remember what the cards are.

[Isis]

I'm wondering how you split up the actors then. I've liked all of them, except maybe Nikki & Paolo, and their episode was excellent.

Totally subjectively! I think that the quality of acting is the icing on the cake - an episode that moves the story forward, has effective dialogue etc has a bit more impact when it concerns one of the better actors because the whole thing is fully absorbing and there are no distractions for the viewer. For me, unconvincing acting has the same effect as factual errors/ugly phrasing/unclear descriptions in books - it reminds me that I'm watching/reading a story.

[Werthead]

Interesting point nailed by this guy here. Kristin from E! Online suggested that some stuff she'd heard on the grapevine backed it up, but it wasnt entirely accurate.

The last episode tells us that anyone exposed to a great deal of EMP or radiation cannot leave the Island without a 'constant' or they'll go mental and have their brains explode. The above theory postulates, however, that the area of exposure to the explosion of the Swan Hatch was much greater than previously suspected, enough to encompass a large chunk of the Island, including the beach.

The theorist goes on to explain that this is why people such as Claire remain on the Island, as they were exposed to the EMP radiation and cannot leave without adverse side-effects. The same for Bernard, Rose and Locke (although they probably won't leave for medical reasons), not to mention the 20-odd unnamed survivors of 815.

So, who was far enough away from the explosion to be unaffected, and presumably able to leave the Island without a problem?

Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer were prisoners of the Others at the time. Michael and Walt were with them at the time.

Sayid, Jin and Sun were on the Elizabeth off the coast near the Others' fake camp on the other side of the Island.

This is most interesting when you consider that all four of the revealed members of the Oceanic Six are among this 'out of range' group, plus we have some possibilities for the remaining members (if the theory is correct).

There is a question mark over Aaron, though, who was on the beach at the time of the explosion and later shown off the Island. It is possible that since only the consciousness time-travels and Aaron is still less than two months old, his consciousness is not developed sufficiently to be affected. Thus he can leave the Island in perfect safety.

[Ran]

And Eloise the Rat had sufficient consciousness to time-travel... ? I'm thinking there is a hole in this theory.

Maybe Aaron is protected in some fashion by having been born on the island. His brain has been able to adapt to the magnetowhatsis...

Hrm. Babies born on the island, protected from the negative effects of the island's field.... Potential chrononauts who don't need a constant? Is this what Ben is after, or what Dharma was hoping for? Hrm.

[Bormon]

Could you imagine, having a your consious mind from the future being shoved back into your inutero body?

[Werthead]

And Eloise the Rat had sufficient consciousness to time-travel... ? I'm thinking there is a hole in this theory.

Eloise the Rat is blatantly some kind of hardcore super-rat. Given DHARMA's hyper-intelligent orang-utan, Joop, I wouldn't rule anything out here

But good point.

Maybe Aaron is protected in some fashion by having been born on the island. His brain has been able to adapt to the magnetowhatsis...

I suspect this is a better explanation.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Maybe Aaron is protected in some fashion by having been born on the island. His brain has been able to adapt to the magnetowhatsis...

Or maybe not? Maybe he has a constant? (Kate/his mother? If Kate, then maybe Aaron is the "he" and why she says that "he'll be wondering where I've been? Farfetched, and no real explanation of why - she wouldn't even hold him before).

[Fatuous]

The idea is pretty awful; Desmond was having time/consciousness "problems" from the EMP right from the start. To infer anything else that the EMP may have done to people who didn't already travel through time from bathing in it is just nonsense.

The "Island jump" didn't cause the problem, it made it worse.

There's more to Faraday's "side effects" than he's letting on. For example: Did he bring his machine with him? Was Minkowski a test subject? Did Faraday use the ray on himself?

Further thoughts occur: Faraday's heading was not the heading that Ben gave to Michael. Was Desmond's reaction expected and perhaps even intended? Are the Freighter people trying to terrorize the 815 surviivors to stay on the Island? {Conspiracy: Widmore knows that Desmond is having some time problems. Penny's photo was bait to get him on the Freighter}.

Why does Minkowski's stay in the "sick bay" locked in with Sayid and Desmond {a sickbay that can turn into a brig, now that's just convenient} just scream "set-up" to me?

Who's the captain? I still think it's Minkowski. He may be dead or not but the rest of the crew were afraid of Minkowski long before he went "crazy" so who knows.

And maybe I need some sleep.

[Ran]

Wouldn't the heading be in part dependent on where you're leaving in relation to the island? If the time warp effects starts pretty close to the island, it'd have to be different, I think. Michael took off from the dock, while the helicopter is nearer the middle of the island.

Not sure how different the effects would be, though.

In any case, I don't believe Faraday gave incorrect coordinates. He's clearly not a particularly duplicitous character.

[Fatuous]

Wouldn't the heading be in part dependent on where you're leaving in relation to the island? If the time warp effects starts pretty close to the island, it'd have to be different, I think. Michael took off from the dock, while the helicopter is nearer the middle of the island.

Not sure how different the effects would be, though.

In any case, I don't believe Faraday gave incorrect coordinates. He's clearly not a particularly duplicitous character.

I thought degree heading was measured in relation to North {360,0}; It's useful when you have to be far more precise than N {360}, NW {315} and even NNW{337.5}. If degree heading changes from where you start from {or has to be changed}, I can't imagine how useful or relevant it would be for a distance over 20 miles.

Or I'm wrong. Either one.

I would say Faraday's clearly not good at being duplicitous unless, perhaps it involves his scientific work. I don't know yet.

[delete this account pls]

Faraday definitely didn't recognize Desmond in 2004, and is almost certainly suffering some sort of memory problems, perhaps related to time travel. When he and Desmond meet in '96, he says something about how he'll remember that meeting in 2004. Desmond says No, he doesn't. Faraday asks how that's possible and Desmond replies "Maybe you just forgot." Faraday makes a face and says that isn't very likely. Seems some pretty obvious foreshadowing. Then later, during the Eloise experiment Faraday tells Desmond prolonged exposure to the radiation is bad, which is why Faraday wears a vest. Desmond half jokingly says "Shouldn't you wear a helmet as well?" and Faraday looks kinds of surprised/rueful. So I'd say prolonged exposure, due to his unprotected head, has effected Faraday in some way. The note in his journal about Desmond being his Constant implies it's related to the time travel stuff - Faraday told Desmond a Constant has to be something important, something that means a lot to the person. Desmond is that Constant for Faraday because he helped in the breakthrough of Faraday's life's work.

[All-for-Joffrey]

The idea is pretty awful; Desmond was having time/consciousness "problems" from the EMP right from the start. To infer anything else that the EMP may have done to people who didn't already travel through time from bathing in it is just nonsense.

The "Island jump" didn't cause the problem, it made it worse.

There's more to Faraday's "side effects" than he's letting on. For example: Did he bring his machine with him? Was Minkowski a test subject? Did Faraday use the ray on himself?

Further thoughts occur: Faraday's heading was not the heading that Ben gave to Michael. Was Desmond's reaction expected and perhaps even intended? Are the Freighter people trying to terrorize the 815 surviivors to stay on the Island? {Conspiracy: Widmore knows that Desmond is having some time problems. Penny's photo was bait to get him on the Freighter}.

Why does Minkowski's stay in the "sick bay" locked in with Sayid and Desmond {a sickbay that can turn into a brig, now that's just convenient} just scream "set-up" to me?

Who's the captain? I still think it's Minkowski. He may be dead or not but the rest of the crew were afraid of Minkowski long before he went "crazy" so who knows.

And maybe I need some sleep.

I think what Ran said is most likely but another theory could be that Ben intentionally gave Michael the wrong bearing, which is much more likely and in character than Farady giving Frank the wrong bearing.

[HokieStone]

I still haven't seen anything that convinces me they avoid the time travel paradoxes - there's a lot of talk about how/why Daniel doesn't remember the 1996 meeting, but what about Desmond...why doesn't he remember it? And why wouldn't he have recognized Sayid the first time he saw him?

But, we're on to a new episode, which I thought was pretty darn good...

- Charles Widmore is confirmed as the "big bad guy" - at least, as far as we know. I suppose this is who the man that visited Hurley (and hired Faraday, Charlotte, etc.) works for. And probably Sayid's future lover/assassin.

- Ben's crush on Juliette...didn't see that coming really, but it makes things interesting. I remember from Ben's flashback episode that he had some kind of girlfriend, but I don't remember the details. I thought she died when they were teenagers or so - she gave him some kind of doll that he kept to remember her by...is that right? Anyway, does Juliette look like her?

- Goodwin's wife (I've forgotten her name already, damn short term memory) - I found the whole scene where she confronts Juliette in the jungle to be possible the most interesting scene of the episode. First, all of the whispering preceding her arrival. Then she essentially just disappears into thin air. And she claims to be in communication with Ben, even though we know he's locked up in a cell. Is it possible she's dead, and is some kind of spirit? This would tie in with Jacob, and Jack's dad possibly. And if so...does Juliette know that she is dead? Because Juliette wasn't shocked to see her. At least not shocked in the "oh my God you're dead!" sense. So, if this woman is some kind of spirit, either Juliette doesn't know she's dead, or Juliette is not shocked to see a dead person.

- Ben's mole on the boat. Everything is screaming Michael at this point. From Ben telling Locke to "sit down" before he told him, to the preview for next week saying "someone returns who you never thought you'd see again".

[Kat]

The fact that the preview for next week says "and a survivor who you never thought you'd see again!" is pretty funny, since Michael's been in the cast list/credits every week so far.

[Tyria]

- Ben's crush on Juliette...didn't see that coming really, but it makes things interesting. I remember from Ben's flashback episode that he had some kind of girlfriend, but I don't remember the details. I thought she died when they were teenagers or so - she gave him some kind of doll that he kept to remember her by...is that right?

I always thought that they had some sort of relationship in the past. When the others had Jack, Kate and Sawyer captive, Ben is talking to her and the Other comes in the Sun kills later on the boat. Her reaction to them talking made me think that something was going on. Ben always had a creepy (or more so) look on his face when talking to her, and she always had a sort of wary or unnerved look on her face like someone who wishes their ex would stop harassing them.

As to Ben's girlfriend, they never really said (I don't think?) if they were dating, or just friends when they were kids. I always assumed she was killed when he gassed everyone.

Goodwin's wife (I've forgotten her name already, damn short term memory) - I found the whole scene where she confronts Juliette in the jungle to be possible the most interesting scene of the episode. First, all of the whispering preceding her arrival.

I thought it was the smoke monster thingy. It always makes those noises when it appears.

[Jaxom 1974]

I still haven't seen anything that convinces me they avoid the time travel paradoxes - there's a lot of talk about how/why Daniel doesn't remember the 1996 meeting, but what about Desmond...why doesn't he remember it? And why wouldn't he have recognized Sayid the first time he saw him?

Simple explanation for Desmond is that the Desmond that meets Faraday is the 2004 version. He hasn't met Daniel until the island. His time jumping that happens is his 1996 self switching bodies with his 2004 self.

Pretty good episode last night.

Here's the thing though: Will we ever have a definitive answer on what the heck is going on with this boat? I mean, it's Charles Widmore is behind it, is he DHARMA or something else? Though it's Charles Widmore, Penny obvioulsly doesn't know anything about it. The idea that the four "Boaties" are there to help...they don't really seem to have a clue what's going on, do they?

And the preview said we'd learn the identity of the final member of the Oceanic 6 next week. So does that confirn Aaron is one of them then? Or simply a bad preview voice over again?

[Bormon]

Wow, where to start.

First off I guess is that Ben has a thing for Juliette. I didn't realize that this was big news. I mean ever since they had the first Juliette flash back, she has some sort of connection to Ben. I mean I thought that she lived with him at one point. I always seemed obvious that he had something over her (which his why she wanted Jack to kill him)

Ok, next. I am guessing no one was too suprised to see Widmore as the owner of the boat. Once they showed in the Desmond jump back (as opposed to a flashback) that he bought the journal from the black rock I assumed that he was part of it. Now the big question is how much of a connection to Dharma he has. Its obvious that he has knowledge of what went on there (how else would Daniel and Charolotte know about the Tempest and the gas contained there)

Lastly, EVERYONE assumes that Michael is the guy on the boat. I think this is incorrect. I mean given the level of scrutiny that this show gets do you really think they would make it that obvious. I am thinking its someone that either thought previously dead....OR John's girl friend from before (I forget her name)

Though I do believe that Michael might be on the boat, but as a prisoner (Thats going to be an interesting reunion)

[Jaxom 1974]

Lastly, EVERYONE assumes that Michael is the guy on the boat. I think this is incorrect. I mean given the level of scrutiny that this show gets do you really think they would make it that obvious. I am thinking its someone that either thought previously dead....OR John's girl friend from before (I forget her name)

It has to be someone significant to the show overall though, right? Michael makes sense from that respect, or Walt. To have it be someone who wouldn't really be worth the impact on Sayid or Desmond would be ineffective, no?

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I've been nursing the crackpot theory that Sayid is Ben's "man on the boat" since the last Sayid episode. I know Michael makes more sense in a lot of ways, but I thought he wasn't going to be on for a couple more episodes. Also (1) it fits Ben's MO to bluff a little around the edges of the truth (he said he had a man on the boat, what he could have really meant is that he will have a man on the boat) and (2) I can't shake the idea that Sayid somehow knew Ben. Completely crackpot, I'm aware.

I'm also not convinced that it is confirmed that Widmore is our "bad guy." Ben is a farseeing soul. He obviously had prepared the tape and the file for Locke's viewing pleasure at some point before, and likely edited it to suit his purposes. Harper stated that Ben is exactly where Ben wants to be when she met Juliet in the jungle. Charlotte and Faraday clearly did want to turn off the poison gas and think that Ben is the bad guy. I'm currently considering them both to be "bad guys" until further notice.

Finally, on Harper's appearance, do I remember correctly that those whispering sounds also have appeared when people have seen Walt? Didn't Shannon hear them before she saw him? I'm wondering if it's connected to the "black box" or if somehow certain people on the island (those "on the list?") are able to project their consciousness (thus allowing Ben to "leave captivity" and talk to Harper).