NFL offseason II

[Scuba Steve]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1462748' date='Jul 30 2008, 13.29']Might wanna consider a team that has no fans on this board. Like the Chiefs. Or the Panthers.[/quote]

Hey! I'm a Panthers fan! I'm just too lazy to post all that much. :P

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Trebla' post='1464121' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.40']yeah because those 1st round draft choices ALWAYS pan out. Rodgers is automatically going to be a star.[/quote]
Yeah, because I guaranteed in my post that Rodgers is going to be a star. That's exactly what I said.

The Packers did their due diligence. They coddled Brett Favre through all his offseason dramas. They sent executives to come stroke his hand when he seemed like he wanted to come back from his retirement. Rodgers has kept his mouth shut through the drama, remained respectful of his predecessor, and patiently awaited his turn.

I'm not predicting Rodgers is going to turn into the next Favre, or even the next Trent Dilfer. But he's the one the Packers have chosen to be their next QB. They invested a first-round draft pick in him and they've been training him for it for years. Favre's the one who retired and then came back to upset the apple cart with his demands.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1464122' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.40']And if the team had simply acquiesced with his demands, how popular do you think Packers management would be with their shareholders for trading Favre to their division rivals? If Favre's last good year leads the Vikings to a division title and a deep march into the playoffs, how many effigies of Ted Thompson would be burned in the streets of Green Bay? How much of a rift does that cause in the Green Bay locker room? How bad does it get for Aaron Rodgers, the guy they "dumped" Favre for?[/quote]

As popular as the 49ers were when they cut Joe Montana and won a Super Bowl a couple years later. If they have faith in Rodgers then put your money where your mouth is like the Niners did with Steve Young.

[quote]There's a difference, all right, but where is the line? How "legendary" does a player have to be to get the kind of unreasoning devotion that Favre seems to demand? How many touchdowns do you have to throw before it becomes okay to spend four or five years causing drama with your retirement watch, tearfully retire, and then unretire with a demand to be released to your division rivals?[/quote]

Oh I guess you've missed the many, many, many media stories about how Favre wants to play with the Packers. He said if they aren't going to start him, then release him after they had told him they didn't want him back except as a back-up. Oh I see you forgot that part.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1464134' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.47']As popular as the 49ers were when they cut Joe Montana and won a Super Bowl a couple years later. If they have faith in Rodgers then put your money where your mouth is like the Niners did with Steve Young.[/quote]
Was Montana demanding to be traded to the Rams? Did he dither every year about whether or not he was going to retire? The Niners traded Montana to a team in the other conference. As far as I've seen, Brett Favre has turned his nose up at every possibility that is NOT the Vikes or Bears. I was a 49ers fan then and I disliked how they treated Montana. I never really warmed up to Steve Young until his Super Bowl year (after many fulsome frustrations of watching Young collapse in the playoffs). I rooted for the Chiefs against the 49ers when Montana was playing for the Chiefs. But Montana never made as much of a public mess for the 49ers as Favre has made for the Packers, and by fuck, Montana won [i]four[/i] Super Bowls.

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1464134' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.47']Oh I guess you've missed the many, many, many media stories about how Favre wants to play with the Packers. He said if they aren't going to start him, then release him after they had told him they didn't want him back except as a back-up. Oh I see you forgot that part.[/quote]
Funny, the understanding I've gotten is that he told them he's cool with leaving the Packers, fully appreciates that it's Rodgers' turn now, and he can be on his way as soon as he's given the opportunity to sign with their division rivals. If I were Ted Thompson, I wouldn't let him sign with the Vikes or Bears either.

[Jaime L]

Agree with Slurktan and Trebla.

Rodgers has earned [i]nothing. [/i] I don't get the necessity of being so rigid in favor of a completely unproven guy over the guy who made your franchise relevant over the last two decades. Who cares that Rodgers has to wait some more? How long did Steve Young wait? Would be a different story if Favre was a shell of his former self, but he just came off his second best season ever.

I agree Favre's been selfish as hell through this whole thing. But superstars usually are. Both he and Thompson want to have their cake and eat it too. The difference is only Favre can. He holds all the cards based on still being better than Aaron Rodgers (everyone knows he would win in an open competition) and the ability to nix any possible trade by choosing to retire again. If Thompson would've recognized this from the beginning he could've avoided an avalanche of embarrassment culminating in this $20 million offer which comes off as both sleazy [i]and [/i]stupid. Either Favre can still play or he can't. If he can still play, why are you so foolishly stubborn against giving him his job back? If he can't, why are you so afraid of trading him to a division rival? It's just the stupidity of extreme rigidity, the need to follow this [i]one[/i] set plan, and being unable to adapt.

[Trebla]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1464130' date='Jul 31 2008, 13.44']Yeah, because I guaranteed in my post that Rodgers is going to be a star. That's exactly what I said.

The Packers did their due diligence. They coddled Brett Favre through all his offseason dramas. They sent executives to come stroke his hand when he seemed like he wanted to come back from his retirement. Rodgers has kept his mouth shut through the drama, remained respectful of his predecessor, and patiently awaited his turn.

I'm not predicting Rodgers is going to turn into the next Favre, or even the next Trent Dilfer. But he's the one the Packers have chosen to be their next QB. They invested a first-round draft pick in him and they've been training him for it for years. Favre's the one who retired and then came back to upset the apple cart with his demands.[/quote]

well, the Packers could ask the Bears how it went with getting rid of the proven running back in Thomas Jones in favor of the #1 draft pick in Cedric Benson who they spent a few years grooming. ;)

ETA: missed a word

[Space Bandito]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1464060' date='Jul 31 2008, 13.58']Space Bandito,

Bledsoe was traded inside the division the very next offseason after he lost his starting job due to injury. So you are saying that the Packers should have just traded Favre to the Vikings or Bears earlier?[/quote]

Yes. If you truly believe in your QB, show it. Bledsoe went to a Super Bowl against the God Emperor of the NFL Farve and lost and was the toast of New England. He won a playoff game in 2001 after Brady got hurt and was benched again in the Super Bowl. Belichick also said good bye to Kosar and was booed out of town. Belichick said good bye to Bledsoe and many (at the time) were shocked, but it worked out for the best. I am simply saying that a team needs to make difficult decisions.

Players don't have many rights in the NFL and Warren Sapp once compared it to slavery. Farve is trying to use his status with fans, media and past players to get what he wants. In some ways you can't blame him, but a[b] team has needs [/b]as well. I don't see how bringing in Brett Farve to any team is going to help. Eli Manning was no legend and look at what he accomplished. Now if you excuse me I am going to go throw up for just complementing a Manning.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Trebla' post='1464152' date='Jul 31 2008, 15.01']well, the Packers could ask the Bears how it went with getting rid of the proven running back in Thomas Jones in favor of the #1 draft pick in Cedric Benson who they spent a few years grooming. ;)

ETA: missed a word[/quote]
Rodgers may not be the next Joe Montana, but he's not Cedric Benson either.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Space Bandito' post='1464169' date='Jul 31 2008, 15.10']Yes. If you truly believe in your QB, show it. Bledsoe went to a Super Bowl against the God Emperor of the NFL Farve and lost and was the toast of New England. He won a playoff game in 2001 after Brady got hurt and was benched again in the Super Bowl. Belichick also said good bye to Kosar and was booed out of town. Belichick said good bye to Bledsoe and many (at the time) were shocked, but it worked out for the best. I am simply saying that a team needs to make difficult decisions.

Players don't have many rights in the NFL and Warren Sapp once compared it to slavery. Farve is trying to use his status with fans, media and past players to get what he wants. In some ways you can't blame him, but a[b] team has needs [/b]as well. I don't see how bringing in Brett Farve to any team is going to help. Eli Manning was no legend and look at what he accomlished. Now if you excuse me I am going to throw up for just complementing a Manning.[/quote]

Oh I quite agree and what I've been saying is that the Packers should have taken a page from the Patriots book. Cut him or if you could pry a third rounder from Minnesota then trade him. At best Favre has two years left and 4 games against you. Take the hit and move on, don't drag it out and make yourself and your organization look increasingly like morons each new day. At that point you would still be able to invite him to team functions after he retires for good, which is always a popular move for the fans and in the Packers case, Owners. Now? I can't see that happening as long as Thompson is there. Even if Rodgers is the second coming of Joe Montana this is still going to be a black mark against him because he's made himself and his organization look like fools.

[Jaime L]

Gotta say, I always enjoy a good "Who's the bigger asshole" debate. Especially on one that splits the board as evenly as this one.

And while I was both shocked at the $20 million offer and the concession that they may now willing to trade him to the Vikes or Bears, it [i]did[/i] finally make this story more interesting than annoying for the first time.

[Space Bandito]

What some might not remember. The year Bledsoe was traded - 2002. The Patriots missed the playoffs. But boy were those Bills pumped!

With that said, I can't wait to see Farve play. But in this day of Blogs, ESPN Ocho, and yes message boards, stories do get beaten to a bloody fucking pulp. While it is nice to have my team be under the radar, it would be great to know that there are more things going on in the world than Manny and Farve.

For expample: What is Joey Porter doing? Has he threatened anyone yet? Has anyone gone to visit Vick in jail? How about a nice Bryant Gumball interview. I havn't seen T.O. doing crunches in a long time. I didn't think I would miss those abs, but you do. :unsure:

Anyway. There are a lot of different stories this off season. From WR contract disputes, to QB battles, to coaches who just don't listen our advice, and more . Perhaps things will get better when we get to those awesome preseason games. Every time I turn on ESPN they seem to be doing a countdown to a certain Green Bay game. Oh well.

[DanteGabriel]

You know, I don't even know why I've spent so much time and energy posting defenses of the Packers. I do wish well for Aaron Rodgers, because of my affection for his alma mater and because I feel like the 49ers made the wrong decision in 2005. I don't care that much about the Packers or Ted Thompson. But I'm fucking sick of Brett Favre, his prima donna routine, his yearly retirement circus, and the free ride he gets from the press. Favre didn't single-handedly rescue the Packers from ignominy. Oh yes, he was a part of it, and certainly a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But Reggie White had every bit as much to do with the Packers' return to respectability as Favre.

Ted Thompson may have done dumb things. But the instant Brett Favre decided he didn't really mean it when he weepily retired in March, there was no good way out of this situation for the Packers. They were presented with their choice of poisons.

[Gold Storm]

IMHO both the Packers and Farve are looking bad, the Packers were tired of the will or wont he Farve saga the last couple years, so after he set the records last year he retired and they were happy too see it end. It got near the start of the season and Farve missed being in football, so he goes to the Packers and wants to play some more. The Packers do not want him back. The Packers have too trade or release him. Farve will not be the backup, so they must deal him away. They want to control where he will go, but they cannot without trading him, and what team would trade for him if the Packers are just going to release hm anyways.

[Rockroi]

I just do not see what the Packer brass should have done different.

A. [b]Do they not believe Favre when he says "I've retired"? [/b]In that way, they look at Rogers and say, "Sorry kid, we know you should now be the defacto starter, but we just don't believe our old buddy Brett. He'll be back!" Makes no sense.

B. [b]Do they happily welcome Brett back? [/b] "Yeah, we know you retired and changed your mind, and yeah we do sort of have your replacement all here ready to go. But ghosh dawn it! You are so scruffy-looking with that permanent 3 days of growth! We can't keep our hands off you! Sure, you are going to retire in the next 1-3 years, and when that happens our franchise will be TOTALLY fucked. I mean, have you seen what has happened to other organizations once their franchise QB leaves? Miami? Denver? San Fran? But still, WELCOME BACK BUDDY!!!! ....

"OH SHIT AARON! when did you walk in? Oh shit! Ah.. yeah... remember when we called you in our office and said that you were our starter and that Brett was gone? Yeah, well ol' feller, ah... shit... he's back. Now please, stay our #2! Where you going?"

C. [b]Trade Favre[/b]. Greaaaaat. First, Brett seems to only want to be tarded to Minnesoda. He won't go to the Jets or TB. So, that leaves the Pack with... "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we would like to annouce that the Packers- maybe the most desperate franchise in the NFL now -has decided to trade Brett favre, a HoF QB to teh Vikings, our biggest rival in the NFC North. Yeah, we know its a terrible move, but thankfully, we got a second round pick out of it. we're probably going to be drafting a QB."

D. [b]Release Favre[/b]. See C.

I want to know what the pack should have done. Those who say that Rogers has not "done anything" seem to forget that EVERY QB started out not doing anything. Hell, they ahve to start somewhere! The pack like what they see in Rogers and they seem to have some track record with picking QBs (Favre, Hasselbeck). Why should we doubt them?

The flip side is that Favre has stated all along that he loved the Packers, the fans, and his teammates. And now he has put himself above them all.

[awesome possum]

Favre is being a giant douche about this. Let him rot on the bench.

[Gold Storm]

If he is still on the team, it will put Rodgers under a lot of pressure, they should just release him. If he goes to the Vikings big deal, just blitz him with Bennett and knock him into nest week. There have been a ton of great players whom have finished their career playing for other teams than the one they were great with, Farve will just be one of those.

[Rhaco]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1464194' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.37']But Reggie White had every bit as much to do with the Packers' return to respectability as Favre.

Ted Thompson may have done dumb things. But the instant Brett Favre decided he didn't really mean it when he weepily retired in March, there was no good way out of this situation for the Packers. They were presented with their choice of poisons.[/quote]
Speaking of White, I seem to recall him retiring as a Packer, coming out of retirement, still being under contract with the Packers, asking for his release... and the Packers granting him that release. Different management back then, though.

Comparing this situation to that, I know which one I think was better handled.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1464194' date='Jul 31 2008, 14.37']You know, I don't even know why I've spent so much time and energy posting defenses of the Packers. I do wish well for Aaron Rodgers, because of my affection for his alma mater and because I feel like the 49ers made the wrong decision in 2005. I don't care that much about the Packers or Ted Thompson. But I'm fucking sick of Brett Favre, his prima donna routine, his yearly retirement circus, and the free ride he gets from the press. Favre didn't single-handedly rescue the Packers from ignominy. Oh yes, he was a part of it, and certainly a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But Reggie White had every bit as much to do with the Packers' return to respectability as Favre.

Ted Thompson may have done dumb things. But the instant Brett Favre decided he didn't really mean it when he weepily retired in March, there was no good way out of this situation for the Packers. They were presented with their choice of poisons.[/quote]

Agree with all this.

[quote name='Rockroi' post='1464279' date='Jul 31 2008, 15.32']I just do not see what the Packer brass should have done different.[/quote]

Rock, you're kidding right? So when these rumblings of Favre wanting to come back started, you would've done the same thing as Thompson and start off by saying "he's welcome to come back, but on the bench." Cause that makes a ton of sense for [i]everyone[/i] involved. Then send a wave of guys down to Mississippi to convince Favre not to come back, including sending one with an offer of $20 million for him to stay retired...showing absolutely no understanding for how Favre actually thinks about things. Then only reluctantly start looking for trading partners when it's already become a public fiasco and it's clear you are absolutely terrified of him showing up to training camp. You could tell by each half measure they tried, it was based out of the "close my eyes and count to 10 and it will all go away again" school of crisis management. They weren't willing to engage Favre meaningfully until he forced the issue. Then they got desperate. When really they should've been considering his seriousness to return from the first.

They had years to get to know this guy and it's clear they still don't understand him at all.

[quote]I want to know what the pack should have done. Those who say that Rogers has not "done anything" seem to forget that EVERY QB started out not doing anything. Hell, they ahve to start somewhere![/quote]

Exactly! That's why we're saying don't make special accommodations for an unproven. Especially not over a probowl proven QB who got you within seconds of the Superbowl.

By the way didn't Strahan do the [i]exact[/i] same thing for the Giants last year? Was anyone outraged over Mathias Kiwanuka not getting his chance?

[Space Bandito]

[url="http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080731/PKR01/80731163/1978"]Green Bay Newspaper: Talks with Jets Heat Up[/url]


[quote]The New York Jets are in serious talks with the Green Bay Packers and Brett Favre’s agent about acquiring the legendary quarterback, a source said today.[/quote]

The rest of the article is same 'ole bullshit. The only intersting news is that his agent is part of the talks. If that is true, perhaps he has had a change of heart?

[Inkdaub]

Pre-season play begins for my Seahawks next Friday when we play at the Vikings. I can't wait.