Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 3

[Alaerien]

Personally, i could never use the write or die. I usually pump out a few pages, maybe as much as ten, and then i break. Play some video games, read - both. Then i go back to it.

You don't have to write for hours using Write or Die. It has a in-built timer - I usually aim for 500 words in 15 minutes or thereabouts. Write or Die doesn't work for everyone, of course, but I find it very effective at keeping me focused. :)

[Arthmail]

You don't have to write for hours using Write or Die. It has a in-built timer - I usually aim for 500 words in 15 minutes or thereabouts. Write or Die doesn't work for everyone, of course, but I find it very effective at keeping me focused. :)

I find that if i tell myself i can't look at porn until i get a section done, i need no more motivation.

[The_BlauerDragon]

I find that if i tell myself i can't look at porn until i get a section done, i need no more motivation.

Hey, I very well may try that approach! Since I wirte about as slowly as I read (don't know how to type, so I finger peck), and I wouldn't know the first thing about how to make an outline, this "No porn until after that next chapter" approach seems like it just might work for me. Thanks!

I'll also be looking through the links and such provided. I guess I'll have to toss in some "Outrageously Good Luck" (DeM) whenever the protag gets himself into a bind and comfort myself with the "I'll find a way to fix it in revision" approach.

As for the story itself... er... it's complicated. Centers on the dangers of allowing men to dictate faith, on the corrupting nature of the power to have others believe you have authority to speak for the Gods, and upon the inner struggles of trying to place "the greater good" (and personal responsibilities) as a first priority without sacrificing self needs and desires completely along the way.

[TheEvilKing]

Started working on a new one today that I've been thinking about for a while. Hopefully I'll stick with it this time. It's a fantasy that explores religion, war, politics etc. In what I hope is a nice twist on the usual "wizards are abominations" trope often seen in fantasy religions, anyone with magic is considered a prophet and revered, sometimes even worshipped, by the main faiths.

Probably gonna stick with humans as the only race. Although I might toy with the idea of lots of alt-animals. Dragons, unicorns, griffons, etc. I don't know much of a part they'll play in the story (will probably use some as mounts for battle), but it might add some nice flavour.

[Ebenstone]

Draft 5.0 of Winter's Discord is done! Cut it down to 83k from 99k. Now comes the waiting, which is more complicated than it needs to be right now.

Anyway, I wanted to get moving on a new project, but I've got a bit of a stomach bug wreaking havoc with me right now.

I will keep you all up to date!

Alae, I LOVE reading your blog and IRONBANE sounds awesome. I'd love to beta it, but I'm so busy right now, I'm afraid I'd do it no justice. (Ask poor Myrddin about that! I'm working on it this week Stuart!!!)

Check the blog for additional updates.

EDIT: Submitted about 10 minutes ago.

[Myrddin]

]Draft 5.0 of Winter's Discord is done! Cut it down to 83k from 99k. Now comes the waiting, which is more complicated than it needs to be right now.

EDIT: Submitted about 10 minutes ago.

Congrats! Did you send it off to Fine Print or Brendon (sp?)?

(Ask poor Myrddin about that! I'm working on it this week Stuart!!!)

Heh. I knew you were revising your own stuff, so no worries. But you were the only one who responded with updates to me at all. Well, one other beta is finishing up her second book on a deadline with her editor (I'm also beta reading her chapters) and another is a friend of mine from the UK. I don't expect many comments from her, but she read some of my original stuttering stabs at writing back in 1995, so it's more a way to share the writing journey with her than a real avenue for feedback.

I had to send off emails to the rest of my betas this week asking what was up. I know it's alot of work, so I don't mind if someone offers to beta and then has to back out, but tell me! :)

And Blauer: Sounds like you need an outline. :) It can be anything you want it to be. You don't need the lame format you learned in school

I.

A.

B.

II.

etc

My outline tends to be about a paragraph per chapter where I just tell the overall action/plot/character moments.

The best thing about an outline is that it's not set in stone. And you can identify plot or character problems before plunking out thousands of words in prose.

I've already heard back from two who said they got busy and forgot, but are now reading.

[Snikt5]

I've finally completed my first draft. It comes in at 126K words. I am now in the middle of an agonising month's break as I seek to get some distance from the project and return to edit with a fresh pair of eyes.

[Ebenstone]

Hey, I very well may try that approach! Since I wirte about as slowly as I read (don't know how to type, so I finger peck), and I wouldn't know the first thing about how to make an outline, this "No porn until after that next chapter" approach seems like it just might work for me. Thanks!

I'll also be looking through the links and such provided. I guess I'll have to toss in some "Outrageously Good Luck" (DeM) whenever the protag gets himself into a bind and comfort myself with the "I'll find a way to fix it in revision" approach.

As for the story itself... er... it's complicated. Centers on the dangers of allowing men to dictate faith, on the corrupting nature of the power to have others believe you have authority to speak for the Gods, and upon the inner struggles of trying to place "the greater good" (and personal responsibilities) as a first priority without sacrificing self needs and desires completely along the way.

I outline the same way Myrddin does, about a paragraph per chapter. But one thing I've been trying I took from a screenwriting course I took in college. I write a treatment of the entire story so I know the entire arc. I've done this with two pending projects and they are gone now thanks to the wrecked HD last August. One I'm going to work on later this year.

My next project is outlined a paragraph per chapter.

Myr, sent it to Brendan and now I just wait. You'll get an email if something happens.

[Myrddin]

I just clicked though every page of the last two threads, looking for my process of storyboarding... I was sure I had shared it here at least once. Would've been faster just to type it out.

Anyway.

Aside from outlining, I also started storyboarding my books with notecards.

Have you ever seen a behinds the scenes DVD special feature for an animated or special effects movie? They break down the film into shots and post them on a huge wall so you could read the whole movie, bit by bit. I do something like this for my books as a brainstorming method.

Since I have multiple POV characters, I give each one a notecard color. Then I write out the main character/plot points for each one, with general plot or information in white. Then on the larest cork board I can find, I pin the notecards in place to mimic the flow of story in the novel.

When I'm done, I can stand back and read a rough draft of the story. Well, read it in sound bit form. :) But this helps identify holes in the story.

(Note: when using multiple POV characters, it's really easy to see how the story balance is. Too much yellow? Add green. Or blue to clumped? Spread it out. etc.)

Then I chunk the story into chapters and write my detailed outline described above. The thing to remember about both of these tools is that they are not set in stone. My final draft is very different fromt he storyboard I built how ever many years ago. Each step brought about changes: storyboard --> outline --> first draft --> revised draft

This works for me, but every writer is different. Develop what aids/strategy helps you the best.

[Alaerien]

Thread's been quiet lately. What is everyone up to? I had a quiet week, so I've been:

* Beta reading two YA urban fantasies, one short, one long. The second one just got an agent offer yesterday, so I'm not sure how much help the author still needs.

* Critiquing more chapters of my critique partner's fantasy novel.

* Outlining a YA urban fantasy of my own. I started it last November, but stalled at 20k. I am such an outline freak, I absolutely could not continue until I knew where my next big dramatic climax was coming from.

* Re-outlining my urban fantasy, which needs a new viewpoint and about 20k of new scenes. Gulp.

* Editing some more of my epic fantasy.

Phew. :)

[Zoë Sumra]

Hum. I've been:

• Continuing to type up the latest red pen run of my SF novel, which was a line edit
  
• Identifying scenes that are slightly too long, i.e. ones I can cut quite harshly to lose word count
  
• Realising that even this is unlikely to take the thing below 175K (it'll be 190Kish after I've finished typing up the line edit)
  
• Wondering whether sending a beautiful covering letter, synopsis and first three polished chapters to an agent without mentioning the finished word count anywhere in the documentation gives a higher or lower chance of the package being filed immediately under B than mentioning in the covering letter that the book is 175K plus
  
• Wanting to draft more of the damned book's sequel
  
• Wondering if a better plan is to draft a prequel instead, on the grounds that it'll be considerably shorter; negative is that it'll be a family-scale tale of space yakuza and I don't know how grabbing it'll be
  
• Actually drafting an AU version of a small part of the end of the sequel, for practice only
  

So, not my most productive period ever, though typing the line edit isn't going badly.

[kuenjato]

from the last month:

* editing my very first novel. Quite painful, sometimes, and surprising when I least expect it. The only reason I'm bothering with it is because I plan on binding all of my works for a personal library and I have to make the 'finished' product as bearable as possible.

* On that note, I've edited the first 36k of a sci-fi novel I started roughly 10 years ago (roughly 1/2 complete). I've finished it in screenplay format last year but I'm too busy with the below projects to transcribe the events into prose form right now.

* Continual work on book 2 of the five-book epic fantasy series. Currently 217,000, another 90k or so to go. Probably finish this sucker at the end of summer. I've already begun drafting the prologue and chapter 1 of book 3. I've outlined it at roughly 220k or so.

* I've begun a YA fantasy novel for my daughter (still a month and a half until birth but I figure I better start early). Just around 2k right now. I'm going to spend quite a bit of time with this in march, before baby comes.

* A project for my creative writing class -- a satire and commentary on cults, conspiracy theory, religion, etc. -- sort of 'Faust meets West Side Story'. 12,000k in the last month. It will probably break just over 70k when I finish.

Yeah, and my professors keep bugging me about my current research... I don't mention any of the above during my assurances ;)

[Ebenstone]

As I said in my post from last week, I'm in the process of waiting right now. As for "what's new," it's not so new. Here's what the line up looks like:

1. Jaiman Zarachek and the Sisters of Khoda

All my old peeps from the original BWB Writer's Group should remember the name Jaiman Zarachek as the protagonist from my horrid trunk novel "The Falling Dark." I've reimagined the idea a bit (I intend to go back to TFD at some point, just not now) as a YA series about Jaiman's experiences as a cadet (a motif in my work, methinks) and this is the first one. The initial idea for the series is 2 alternating POVs: Jaiman and then Jaiman's "girl." Later books MIGHT get additional POVs, especially Jaiman's best friend, Brandt. I've got at least the next two books titled as well: JZ and the Race to Standish (think a fantasy version of Smokey and the Bandit) AND JZ and the Lies of a King (some courtly romance maybe). But Sisters is a chase the princess story with some complications. I'm intending to dive back in on Sunday with the intent of finishing it by April break. Think of it as NANO plus two.

2. Spring's Tempest

The follow up to Winter. I'd actually written a complete 80k version of this about 2 years ago right after I finished draft one of Winter and lost it in the great "thumb drive" incident of that year. But I've changed enough of the first book that a complete "redo" was necessary, so it's not that big a deal. I've arced out the whole series, I've just got to fill in and see what works and what doesn't. I'm thinking this one will be "bigger" than Winter since more will be going on in it and the characters will be spread out all over the place.

3. Legend Killer

Still in it's gestation stages, but the best way I can describe this is "The Watchmen" meets "The Steel Remains."

4. And trying to actually help out my good friend Myrddin on his book....

5. And there might be a pesky rewrite of Winter required by an editor...but that a BIG might.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Always nice to read about people working hard on their stuff.

Last few months have been a pain in the butt and I downright hate the Olympics they're so distracting...Curling my nemesis! Why can't I look away from your twisting granite slabs? But I'm still slowly making some progress on two of my projects.

1. The Betrothal: or How I Saved Alan Edwards from 40 Years of Hell my teen/romantic comedy, which I'm letting sit to gain some distance from it to help with my next edit, or at least to help with my sanity from reading through it for the billionth time. I'll be working up the nerve to start a cover letter and synopsis sometime around the middle of the year. Still sitting at a perfect 100k but trying to find the balance between humor--which is great, romance--which works to my astonishment, and plot--which is kind of sagging up the middle of the novel with exposition and not the funny.

2. My Urban Fantasy/Occult Detective/whatever-label-you-want-to-give-it tentatively and purposely campy titled The Foul Mouth and the Fanged Lady. I like writing first person stories that know they're being told and this is one. Shooting for 70k to 80k, 16 chapters split into two stories of 8 each and switched up between the timelines. The 'past' timeline is our main character as a recent 'college' graduate looking back on all the stupid shit he did in his school days at usual magical school, the 'present' timeline is our main character as a forty something father looking back at all the stupid shit he did as a young adult just out of school. About 25k of the way through it so far, working on the 'past' story. My balance problem in this one so far is how much a pissed off 14 year old white trash kid would actually curse and talk about inappropriate things and how much is too excessive for reader's precious innocent minds.

[Myrddin]

• Realising that even this is unlikely to take the thing below 175K (it'll be 190Kish after I've finished typing up the line edit)
  

This is me. I have 90% of my chapters revised and "final", but with only 50% of my word cut goals met. Oh and I have two and a half chapters of new material that needs to be written (probably add 7k), which will hurt what progress I've made trimming this thing down...

I've realized it's going to need a third draft. The good news is that I'm really happy with how the second draft (formerly known as the "Final Draft"...) has turned out. Storywise, I've accomplished everything I wanted to, both in pumping up the drama, heightening tension, and tightening the characterizations and story. If 180,000 words was fine for a first time author, this draft would be "Final", but I think I need to go through it again for more agressive cutting.

Ideally, I'd do this with my beta responses in hand... ;) *coughcough*

I've also been beta reading a book that will be published by Wizards of the Coast's Eberron line. Not sure when it'll be published, but it's due to the editor soon. Speaking of which, I need to finish the last four chapters and send them back...

[Ealdorman Halasahr]

One author, don't know which one but he's an acclaimed, very known one, says he writes just about whenever he finds the time. Gaps between doing laundry and getting your kids from the local kindergarten and so forth.

His point is that he's able to write some 20 minutes here, 20 minutes there. Those minutes are valuable, and he writes about a page or two each day. And that's one whole book a year, right?

Personally, I'd like to (love to) sit down writing bits and pieces one minute here, and one there, but it doesn't work for me. I need consistency - we're talking hours, even days here.

But, hey, I'm not an accomplished writer yet, and I'm still working on my sixth draft. But my beta-reader likes the story, thus far ...

A bonus: I've also started writing this short-story - or novella, even - which takes place in the same world as the one I've been working so hard with the last couple of years. But whereas the longer story doesn't have any kind of deadline, or anything, the shorter does. And that deadline is only three weeks away. Help!

[The_BlauerDragon]

Just wanted to pop in and give everyone a little update. The last few weeks have been fairly productive. I've developed a new system to help me stay focused and actually write. Since I am not exceptionally fast with anything that I do, I have started off with a deadline of 1/2 page per day. If I do a full page on any one particular day, then I can access the porn (or the video game, or movie, or whatever...). If I don't write at all any one day, that's fine but there's no treat either. Every 10 days I will be checking my progress. If I have not met the minimum requirement (5 full pages), then I will have to sit down and write out a full explanation of my excuses for why I did not get it done (minimum 500 words per excuse). I figure that my fear of writing such expositions will provide extra incentive.

[slim da reaper]

Here's some advice from Elmore Leonard on writing The Culture show, starts about 37:45.

There's also a link to his book Ten rules for writing fiction

[Jerol]

I've worked hard at creating other races and it's a bitch to come up with something that is not an elf, dwarf, or Ent because those tropes are so stamped in a fantasy reader's brain. But I think I beat it. Plus I got some dragons that aren't at all like fantasy dragons - more like dinosaurs with nasty habits.

[Myrddin]

Jim Hines posted a survey on how/when/when people sold their first novels. It not necessarily causitive information, but shows some interesting trends.

In personal news, my query got critiqued by Jodi Meadows* last weekend (second one). She called it strong, and had some suggestions to make it stronger. Feeling better about starting the query process soon.

Still hammering out revisions. Down to the last four chapters. Two of them just need the usual read through to cut out words, but the other two need more work. One is the climax for one of the main POV's which I needed to alter a bit, and the other is a new chapter, because the afore mentioned chapter didn't give that character enough resolution. My outline for this one is short. Here's to hoping the chapter turns out short...

With the new material added (I think 3 new chapters have been added during the rewrite), the revised "first draft" total is 203,000. WIth my cuts during revision, my current manuscript total is 189,000. Two steps forward (cutting) and one big ste back (adding new material). This book just doesn't want to be shorter. Once I finish revising these last 4 chapters, I'm going to read back through it with a red marker. Again. I'd love to get down to 165,000. 175,000 would be ok, but I'd rather get it lower.

*Jodi read slush for a literary agent for years and just got an agent of her own recently.