Survivor: Heroes vs Villians

[Gertrude]

For sure Rob got a nasty shock. He now realizes what a worthy opponent Russell is. I still maintain that it isn't a mark against Rob, rather a ton of marks for Russell and now Rob knows he's up against some serious shit. We don't know if Rob talked to Tyson after he talked to Russell or not. Rob has always been cocky, sure, but he always has his ducks in a row. (Well, Marquesas wasn't his best showing, but he had glimmers of greatness there too) Perhaps Rob did make a mistake in assessing Tyson's loyalty, not to the alliance, but to the plan. We don't really know because we are only shown what makes for a good story.

[Blaine]

Rob got a lesson in Russell's freaky power to pull amazing shit out of his ass in order to save it. Ultimately, you could say any loss/victory is due to Tyson, but that's true about any group vote. Rob's power is in strategizing and then getting people to follow the plan. As such, Russell kicked Rob's ass tonight. Rob constructed a fail-safe plan, one that should have gotten Parvati or Russell out of the game and Tyson's flip was only half of what ruined it. The other half was Russell being crazy enough to give away the HII.

Again, I'd like to see Russell make it to merge or manage a swing to get Coach or one of the others in his alliance. I even think that if crazy Russell made it to the finale, he could convince this jury that he deserved the win this time. Mainly because this jury is made up of veterans. Who knows?

Either way, even if he goes home next week, Russell pulled off an amazing feat tonight. It could have been one of the dumbest moves ever. Now it's one that proves he absolutely has the largest balls of anybody to play this silly game.

[The Wedge]

My wish is that they could somehow vote Sandra off sooner rather than later.

She is grating, does nothing in challenges, and relies on laying low far too much to be entertaining.

I didn't see the season she won, but how the heck did she do it?

[awesome possum]

My wish is that they could somehow vote Sandra off sooner rather than later.

She is grating, does nothing in challenges, and relies on laying low far too much to be entertaining.

I didn't see the season she won, but how the heck did she do it?

By doing nothing in challenges and laying low far too much. It's been a while since I saw the season, but I think she basically did next to nothing for most of the season and got incredibly lucky by always being the next one to go after so and so. After the merge the tribe was very bipolar with alliances changing every two or three days (or about once an episode) and again she was almost always the next one to go after so-and-so. She did make one major move when she convinced the women of the opposing alliance to flip and go with a girl-power alliance to oust the alpha males, but that lasted for all of one episode again - though it would reemerge when the final two guys went on reward together and the women decided to get rid of the final alpha male.

She basically won because she made it to the final three with two unlikable people - a older Scoutmaster who harped about her Scout attributes constantly but had betrayed almost everyone throughout the game, and Johnny Fairplay. The Scoutmaster won the final immunity challenge and chose to take Sandra to the final tribal because she wasn't as much of a dick as Fairplay.

She was one of the most under-the-radar coattail riders to have ever won, and is only memorable because she talked all sorts of trash the entire time.

[Slurktan]

She was one of the most under-the-radar coattail riders to have ever won, and is only memorable because she talked all sorts of trash the entire time.

There was also a part where Rupert was kicked off where Rupert had caught fish for the tribe to eat the next day after that tribal council, Sandra got rid of the fish and then blamed it on another person who was in her alliance.

She won because she was against Lill, the scoutmaster who had already been voted out of the game and so was guaranteed to lose in a fight.

[Tsavong Lah]

My wish is that they could somehow vote Sandra off sooner rather than later.

She is grating, does nothing in challenges, and relies on laying low far too much to be entertaining.

I didn't see the season she won, but how the heck did she do it?

Sandra was a shining star in her season, matched only by Johnny Fairplay. And I say this with all seriousness, as I think they were both incredibly entertaining. Sandra was a character with a big mouth and a strategy that was "anybody but me". How did she win? She switched allegiances almost daily, depending on who had the power. She didn't play a controlling game, but she also didn't play a coattail riding game. She didn't attach herself to one person and let them take her to the end. She made the smart move every step of the way, without being the instigator herself.

I actually think she played the greatest under the radar game ever, and an actual pro-active one. Definitely not a coattail rider, and incredibly entertaining.

Some great quotes:

"What the fuck? I can get loud too!" (absolutely screaming this at Fairplay)

"John's like a girl."

"I think she, you know, liked her... in a sexual way."

And just lots of swearing in general. Loved Sandra. This season she has been too invisible though, but obviously she is surrounded by big personalities, and Danielle.

[awesome possum]

Definitely not a coattail rider, and incredibly entertaining.

I agree she was entertaining, but she was a coattail rider. She just jumped onto different coattails instead of riding a single one. She did step up and make moves when she had to, but her strategy (besides anyone but me) was to let anyone but her make the moves as well.

[Gertrude]

I agree with TL - Sandra absolutely did not ride coat-tails. She let it be known that she was ok with voting anyone as long as it wasn't her, meaning she was a vote people could actively lobby for if they needed a swing. She did a lot at the very end to actively persuade people to vote with her. She dragged Tijuana to spy on Fairplay and ... that other guy so she could see they were full of shit. She was responsible for the female alliance. She was also completely awesome in the first challenge with her mad Spanish skills - quite likely the only challenge in which she performed well at all. She got them barbeque chicken from someone's backyard. She also saw through Fairplay's lie, which I love her for.

Small nitpick- she didn't actually blame Christa for the fish, she just didn't correct the situation when others assumed it was her.

Yes, she can be grating, but I happen to like loud-mouthed opinionated women, so I kind of love her. She is entertaining. She has been invisible so I am hoping that means she goes far and they will focus more on her later, but that's not a sure indicator. She unhooked Sugar's bra hoping that it would slow her down due to embarrassment - totally thinking outside the box and slightly underhanded. I'm all about Sandra and she's my favorite right now. Just show her damnit!

[Gertrude]

I agree she was entertaining, but she was a coattail rider. She just jumped onto different coattails instead of riding a single one. She did step up and make moves when she had to, but her strategy (besides anyone but me) was to let anyone but her make the moves as well.

I don't understand why most people think that this is a weaker strategy than trying to control the game? It is most always used in a derogatory manner, but isn't the point of Survivor to survive? Not everyone will chose the same path as people have different strengths - you can be physically dominant or a mastermind and get total respect, but god forbid you take a less out-front,paint-a-target-on-you path.

I think part of it can be attributed to the difference in the sexes. I'm not saying people are being sexist, but men and women tend to think in different ways and men can understand the dominant approach better, while women see the value in the supporting roles (Men-hunters/protector and women-nurturing/social) This is an oversimplification, obviously, but I think in general, men and women might admire different qualities.

[The Wedge]

I don't question the validity of Sandra's strategy. All's fair and there are so many ways to stick around or stick your neck out to get it chopped off. She obviously knows what she's doing.

I just can't stand her. There's never a moment where she's happy about anything from the group dynamics to the confessionals. Miserable people need to have some endearing or potentially redeeming qualities for me to like them. She seems to have none.

[awesome possum]

I don't understand why most people think that this is a weaker strategy than trying to control the game? It is most always used in a derogatory manner, but isn't the point of Survivor to survive? Not everyone will chose the same path as people have different strengths - you can be physically dominant or a mastermind and get total respect, but god forbid you take a less out-front,paint-a-target-on-you path.

I think part of it can be attributed to the difference in the sexes. I'm not saying people are being sexist, but men and women tend to think in different ways and men can understand the dominant approach better, while women see the value in the supporting roles (Men-hunters/protector and women-nurturing/social) This is an oversimplification, obviously, but I think in general, men and women might admire different qualities.

I think you may be partly correct here in that I expect more out of players than the do-little or nothing approach. It's not that I don't respect the coattail riding/under-the-radar game if the person in question actually contributes. I really didn't think Sandra contributed much to her season besides entertainment value (aside from being able to speak Spanish, which helped very early in the game). She made a big move, sure, but for the most part she let others do the work for her. It got her a million dollars in the end, so it's not as if it's a bad way to play the game. It's just not one that I particularly like.

I also just find her extremely annoying. She can be funny or entertaining, sure, but holy crap is she obnoxious most of the time. I grew up around many Hispanic women very similar in attitude to her and from my experience most of them were not very good people. That definitely clouds my judgment in regards to her.

I also don't think the only option besides under the radar is controlling the game as you seem to suggest. There are many different ways to play the game and it doesn't need to have anything to do with perceived societal gender roles. I personally think it is a weak way to play. They (eta - I mean coattail/UTR players here) contribute next to nothing for the majority of the game and only when almost everyone of consequence has been voted out do they try to make a move. It has succeeded in the past, so it's not a worthless strategy, but it's just not one that I look at and say - that's how I want to play. YMMV

[Tsavong Lah]

I guess I kind of enjoy the "always pissed off" nature of Sandra. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I like her so much.

I still whole-heartedly disagree with anyone who says she was a coattail rider. Natalie in Samoa was a coattail rider, never making a move in the game to dislodge herself from Russell's posse. Her entire strategy was for Russell to dominate the game and take her with, where she could win by being nicer. Sandra's strategy was to actively move between alliances in order to ensure her safety. When she had the numbers she stuck with them, when she didn't she knew how to move. I also have huge respect for her because time after time she aligned with people she didn't like and had no reason to forgive because she understood getting far in the game was more important than having nice people around you.

The one gripe I had with her in Pearl Islands was during the FTC. She told everyone that the number one reason not to vote for Lil was because she had a hand in getting each and every one of them eliminated. A better argument would be that Lil was already voted out once, and she doesn't deserve the win because Sandra didn't need a second chance to make the final 2.

[Demonblade]

Sandra winning was the first time I approved of a coat-tail rider winning at the end. She was pretty entertaining in her season and I wonder if she has a friend in Rupert on the other side, as I seem to remember her righteous indignation at Rupert getting voted off. I don't remember all that much from that season, other than wanting Burton to take it all. I think I saw Sandra as the only one left I actually liked after Burton getting voted off. I still cringe at the thought of Lilian's pathetic weepings and Johnny Fairplay's ugly face.

[kuenjato]

essential

[SpaceChampion]

essential

Broken url.

[Slurktan]

I guess I kind of enjoy the "always pissed off" nature of Sandra. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I like her so much.

I still whole-heartedly disagree with anyone who says she was a coattail rider. Natalie in Samoa was a coattail rider, never making a move in the game to dislodge herself from Russell's posse. Her entire strategy was for Russell to dominate the game and take her with, where she could win by being nicer. Sandra's strategy was to actively move between alliances in order to ensure her safety. When she had the numbers she stuck with them, when she didn't she knew how to move. I also have huge respect for her because time after time she aligned with people she didn't like and had no reason to forgive because she understood getting far in the game was more important than having nice people around you.

The one gripe I had with her in Pearl Islands was during the FTC. She told everyone that the number one reason not to vote for Lil was because she had a hand in getting each and every one of them eliminated. A better argument would be that Lil was already voted out once, and she doesn't deserve the win because Sandra didn't need a second chance to make the final 2.

To me Sandras strategy worked to get her far in the game the last time. Whether that is a winning strategy hasn't been proved yet. Yes she actually won, but in the FTC had she said "I will shit in your mouth and eat your babies" she still would have won because Lill took her to the end. I'm curious as to whether her strategy will work when it's not that kind of situation.

[kuenjato]

Broken url.

ah, crap. Go to the survivor site at CBS and watch Coach break down the tribes using figures from King Arthur. yeah.

[Stubby]

OK. Can finally join into this thread now that we have caught up to you lot.

Highlights of the season for me so far:

The opening 5 minutes of the season - edited or not - dislocated shoulder, broken toe, boobies, nastiness and tears. Awesome TV.

Seeing how far Colby has fallen. He's become grumpy old man Colby. I keep expecting him to shout "get off my lawn". He has becomes the "buffoon" that he accused Keith of being during the Oz season.

Russell v Rob. Awesome.

James using the Nelson Munce "Ha Ha" when Probst told the villians to stop eating the hot dogs.

Parvati's cougar line about Jerri.

But without doubt, the move Russ pulled with II. Great move convincing Tyson to vote out ... Tyson!

As a side note, we have a pool going. We each put in $15 and drew a player out of the hat. If your survivor wins you win the $300. I drew Jerri and laoise drew Boston Rob. So far we still have a 1 in 14 shot at $300!

[Demonblade]

About those hot dogs, I saw the episode and noticed that the camera kept switching to the ladies munching down on hot dogs, only they didn't close their mouths. Holy shit that's disgusting! I know you're hungry as fuck but for fuck sakes, CLOSE YOUR GODDAMN MOUTHS!!

[Gertrude]

It hurts to even contemplate the vileness coming out of Russell's mouth next week. I don't think his head will fit under the shelter anymore.

I was fine with Jerri this season, willing to give her a chance and liked that she didn't have that 'Why doesn't anyone like me' chip on her shoulder. She is now dead to me and no going back. She's calling the other players idiots? Please.

It just grates on my last nerve to see Russell and Parvati giggling and smiling and patting each other on the back at how awesome they are. I'm not saying they aren't playing well - they are. Extremely well. I don't have to like it though. Seriously - those two are firmly in my top ten most hated players list and I'm not sure they don't take both top spots. Please, please god someone take them down.