Survivor: Heroes vs Villians

[awesome possum]

Wow, good stuff. I think this episode may have pulled back the curtain on Amanda, so to speak. The way she blindly followed the Tom/JT/James plan and then flopped as soon as Cirie basically scolded her with a, "bad Amanda, no!" makes me think she's never been as strategically in the game as was previously shown in her first two seasons. I definitely have to change my opinion that she was an equal part of the alliance in China and Micronesia.

JT is playing hard, almost too hard. I think it's definitely going to bite him in the ass sooner or later.

The entire Heroes tribe has basically shot themselves in the foot. Watching them this early in the game is almost like watching a merged tribe in the endgame. Just crazy.

But entertaining. The whole Coach thing, though, not so much entertaining. I get it that they're trying to flip things around by giving the Villains heroic edits and the Heroes villainous edits, but they tried a little too hard with Coach.

I do like the buildup to the Russell and Rob showdown. It's unfortunate, because they really could run the show together, but one of them won't make the merge.

[Gertrude]

It is getting very interesting. I want to see what kind of fall out - if any - there will be from Russell looking for the idol. And yes, Rob is just the man. He makes this whole thing look easy.

I was sad to see Cirie go, I really like her and she is extremely good at the social/strategy part of it. I am kind of glad to see her go in another sense though, because it means the players made some good decisions. They were all lamenting that they keep losing, and Cirie was a better choice than just about anyone else at that point if they were looking at strength in challenges. They all know that Cirie is a schemer and thus a huge threat late game - best to take her out sooner.

Cirie and Candace had a good strategy for nullifying the idol IF (really big if) everyone was solid. Leaves too much room for what JT just did. We don't know how much recruiting Tom and Colby did, but they did work it at least a little and got a little lucky. I don't say that to disparage it, because I think luck is a bigger part of winning and getting farther than people care to admit. I'm wondering if the Colby-Tom team could have survived without finding the idol and I'm doubting it. They would have needed to flip 3 people instead of 1. And btw, JT is in a good position for flipping early. Candace will be seen as an opportunist (even if they didn't already distrust her) and Cirie was the heart and glue of the opposite alliance. I'm super glad they at least got Steph out, however. Really didn't like her.

[Slurktan]

Good episode for the most part but some strange moves. Russell going to look for the idol was strange, at least in the way he tried to lie it off but then was so obvious about it. JT's move was just as strange. Granted taking out Cirie is always a smart thing but he's stuck now with Tom and Colby and they still won't have the numbers unless the idol gets put back. If the Heroes lose again next week one of those three will be gone, I'd think JT for being a snake. His best hope now is for an extended immunity run by the team.

Sidenote #1: How foolish are they editing James to look this season? Very glad Colby called him out to his face just to see what his eventual reaction is.

Sidenote #2: Coach not only is the most interesting man on Earth, he also is deeply sensitive to the thoughts of those around him. Him and Assistant Coach are a great team. (Seriously the biggest shock of the night, if not the whole season was Tyson NOT ripping Coach in the confessional after that crying fit.)

EDIT for Sidenote #3: Greased up Amanda should be put in every edition of Survivor..... ever. That is all.

[RedEyedGhost]

How much longer will Courtney last? She's looking sickly skinny already.

Russell is an idiot. "I'm going for a walk." Really? How about, "My stomach hurts, I'm going to go try and take a dump." and then he off into the woods and double back, not straight down the freaking beach.

I was sad to see Cirie go, I really like her and she is extremely good at the social/strategy part of it.

Yeah Cirie is great, but I have to give JT huge props for recognizing how big of a threat she is and taking control.

And btw, JT is in a good position for flipping early. Candace will be seen as an opportunist (even if they didn't already distrust her) and Cirie was the heart and glue of the opposite alliance.

The next tribal council for the heroes will be very interesting. Will JT feel comfortable letting Candace join in on his new alliance? He's been very leery of her so far, and if he can get two others to flip I think she'll be is the next to go.

[Teng Ai Hui]

Last of the Mohicans. King Arthur. Legend.

[Tears of Lys]

Does anyone think that Jeff Probst had a hand in JT's flip, though? or do you think he had already made up his mind?

Probst was almost like another player in the way he was arguing for keeping the stronger ones around!

And yeah, I was surprised that Tyson actually showed some empathy for our Coach. At the very least I expected him to laugh about it to the others. Makes me almost like his bony ass.

[The Wedge]

Last of the Mohicans. King Arthur. Legend.

Was King Arthur bi-polar, like Coach?

One comment about him and he crumbles into burbling tears. Next moment he's all dragon warrior.

What a puss.

Regarding the Heroes, I love a well orchestrated blindside, especially when it exposes idiocy of those who should be in control. What was Cirie's strategy, anyway? Why not play like they are voting for Tom to flush out the idol, but vote for Colby? Flip two of the Tom votes to Colby and Team Cirie is in the driver's seat regardless of how JT votes. Why did they split the Tom/Colby votes?

[Slurktan]

Regarding the Heroes, I love a well orchestrated blindside, especially when it exposes idiocy of those who should be in control. What was Cirie's strategy, anyway? Why not play like they are voting for Tom to flush out the idol, but vote for Colby? Flip two of the Tom votes to Colby and Team Cirie is in the driver's seat regardless of how JT votes. Why did they split the Tom/Colby votes?

They split because had JT stayed true 3 votes was enough to get one of the two they wanted out even if an idol is played. I'm not sure what happens if they go to a tie after an idol is played, but if they can't change their vote (if the people whose votes were vetoed by the idol cannot vote) then you cannot only have 2 people as a voting block in that situation. Once the tie is over the purple rock is drawn and those people who were tied are immune and the immunity holder is immune so neither Colby or Tom would go and any of the others would.

[Namorath]

i guess cause they are heroes and not all of them are good at the dishonesty part of survivor yet

and also some arrogance too, why do they need to be all smart and deceptive when it doesnt matter cause they are going to crush this puny twosome and send them packing

[The Wedge]

They split because had JT stayed true 3 votes was enough to get one of the two they wanted out even if an idol is played. I'm not sure what happens if they go to a tie after an idol is played, but if they can't change their vote (if the people whose votes were vetoed by the idol cannot vote) then you cannot only have 2 people as a voting block in that situation. Once the tie is over the purple rock is drawn and those people who were tied are immune and the immunity holder is immune so neither Colby or Tom would go and any of the others would.

Ahh, yes. Thanks!

[Ken Stone]

Was King Arthur bi-polar, like Coach?

One comment about him and he crumbles into burbling tears. Next moment he's all dragon warrior.

What a puss.

Regarding the Heroes, I love a well orchestrated blindside, especially when it exposes idiocy of those who should be in control. What was Cirie's strategy, anyway? Why not play like they are voting for Tom to flush out the idol, but vote for Colby? Flip two of the Tom votes to Colby and Team Cirie is in the driver's seat regardless of how JT votes. Why did they split the Tom/Colby votes?

No one talks shit about the dragon slayer without getting a "-" feedback on their post. No one.

ETA: I don't get this nonsense about keeping the "stronger" players. So far there have been 4 IC's. Only one of them was based on traditional "strength". Guess what? The hero's dominated that one challenge. If you want to win you don't need a bunch of meatheads. The best teams have balance. You need some brute strength, some good swimming, and some good puzzle solving. Stock up on only one of these and you will lose more than you win.

[awesome possum]

ETA: I don't get this nonsense about keeping the "stronger" players. So far there have been 4 IC's. Only one of them was based on traditional "strength". Guess what? The hero's dominated that one challenge. If you want to win you don't need a bunch of meatheads. The best teams have balance. You need some brute strength, some good swimming, and some good puzzle solving. Stock up on only one of these and you will lose more than you win.

It's smart to keep the physically stronger players around to the merge, not because it guarantees you immunity wins, though that can help. It's smart because once the tribes merge, the physically stronger individual immunity threats become the biggest targets. A social or strategic player like Cirie or Parvati can then sit back, pull some strings and watch as the stronger players eat each other alive and basically coast to the endgame.

That's why I don't understand Cirie was so adamant about getting rid of one of Tom/Colby... probably because Candice is so much easier to control whereas Tom/Colby won't fall in like good little soldiers.

That's why JT's move to get rid of Cirie was one of the smartest in the history of the game, in my opinion. Cirie would have easily led Rupert/James/Amanda/Candice in ousting Tom, Colby and then JT/James/Rupert if they keep losing. She likely would have paired back up with Parvati and Russell at the merge (assuming they make it to there) and after the alpha males take each other out for them, your HvV final four is almost identical to your FvF final four. That would have been pretty boring.

[Ken Stone]

It's smart to keep the physically stronger players around to the merge, not because it guarantees you immunity wins, though that can help. It's smart because once the tribes merge, the physically stronger individual immunity threats become the biggest targets. A social or strategic player like Cirie or Parvati can then sit back, pull some strings and watch as the stronger players eat each other alive and basically coast to the endgame.

Gimmea break. That's not what people are talking about when they say "We need to keep the stronger players so we can win challenges." When Jeff is shocked that they voted off Steph, it was because "She was strong and could help you win challenges". He wasn't shocked because "Hey you idiots, keep the strong people so after the merge they will be targets!"

[awesome possum]

Gimmea break. That's not what people are talking about when they say "We need to keep the stronger players so we can win challenges." When Jeff is shocked that they voted off Steph, it was because "She was strong and could help you win challenges". He wasn't shocked because "Hey you idiots, keep the strong people so after the merge they will be targets!"

I never said that was their strategy. I said that would be my strategy.

[The Wedge]

No one talks shit about the dragon slayer without getting a "-" feedback on their post. No one.

What "-" feedback? Someone must have given it a "+" in obvious agreement that Coach is a yarn-weaving, validation-seeking, self-deluding, manic depressive.

He's a weaked minded fraud if ever there was one. Boston Rob sees this and was right to refuse to validate Coach's wish for being liked.

Coach = :crying:

[Gertrude]

re: tiebreakers

If a tie is reached, they get to revote. Candace and Cirie planned for this. If it was a tie (no idol played) they vote Tom next time around. If it goes to a tie the next time, that is when the purple rock is broken out. No one wants to take a chance on pulling out that purple rock and go home if they are not on the block, so it is a very good deterrent to tied votes. If there is a tie at final four, they do a firemaking challenge instead (or have in the past). The logistics of the rock don't work in a final four situation as they learned with Paschal early on.

re: strength

While only one challenge so far was based on brute strength, most of the challenges have some sort of physicality to them. The Slip-n-slide being a good example. You don't need strength, but some athletic coordination is needed and you saw how Cirie performed. So perhaps strength is a poor word choice, and athleticism would be more accurate. Cirie was one of the least well-rounded challengers on their team. James might be on the opposite side (brawn over brains) but his area of expertise is going to come up a whole hell of a lot more than Cirie's.

re: Coach

Oh the deliciousness of Coach. I am going to have to watch this one again, just to see Coach in all his glory again. I want someone to make a Coach clip show with his best moments. I would so buy it. I also second and third the surprise that Tyson didn't rip him in the confessionals.

[Ken Stone]

What "-" feedback? Someone must have given it a "+" in obvious agreement that Coach is a yarn-weaving, validation-seeking, self-deluding, manic depressive.

He's a weaked minded fraud if ever there was one. Boston Rob sees this and was right to refuse to validate Coach's wish for being liked.

Coach = :crying:

If anything Coach was following Boston Rob's lead. At least Coach had to get his feelings hurt before he got all blubbery. All it took for Boston Rob was a couple of days on the island.

"It.. it... it's getting the best of me ... " :'(

[Whiskeyjack]

Very good episode. I was happy to see Cirie go. She's a good player and I respect her gameplay, but I didn't want to see a replay of the last All-Star game, and there are other players who I'd rather watch right now. Plus, it was just the smart move, in my opinion. They needed to get rid of her before she got control of the game.

Was also happy because I like Tom and wanted to see him stick around for a while. So it was good to see him find the immunity idol and use it to his advantage.

Only negative was that this puts Amanda at risk, depending on how the alliances shake out in the next episode. Would rather not see her leave any time soon.

On the Villains tribe....Coach is still awesome, even when he cries. Russell, on the other hand...what the fuck was he doing? I don't get it. Showing his obsession with the immunity idol wasn't a very smart move. Maybe there's something going on that we haven't seen yet because of the edit? I mean, I could understand more if he felt he was on the outside of the core alliance in his tribe, and he decided he needed the idol to shake things up (like what we saw happen with Tom last night). There has to be something like that going on. We've seen so little of the Villains alliances, so it's possible.

[Tsavong Lah]

I think the image from this episode that really stuck in my mind (aside from the lovely oiled bodies) would have to be the sheer idiocy drawn across Amanda's face. She really did not come off as a bright person.

It was good to get rid of Cirie, but I really don't think JT put himself in a good position by doing so. I can't imagine that the 4 left from that alliance are going to be happy (and they still have the majority).

I love that Rob continues to show why he's the greatest character to ever come out of this show. His incredulous "I'm a villain?" from the first episode is starting to ring more and more true. Love the guy.

Russell screwed up big time. Both on dropping the clue and being so obvious about going to look for the idol.

Love Sandra's snooping, and her line "He's a stupid ass." Classic Sandra.

Coach? I don't really feel bad for him, because he really does bring it on himself. Tyson was spot on with everything he said to him, and I hope Coach takes it to heart. Also, need more Coach and Jerri. I've been missing that interaction since the first episode.

[Kat]

I don't know what I'm going to do if Coach takes Tyson's advice to heart. At least he didn't say, "No more quotations in your confessionals," or I'd have to stop watching the show.

...ok, maybe I wouldn't. I hope the preview for next week is true, because it looks AWESOME! :thumbsup: I want the Villains to lose, not because I hate the team (only Russell), but because they're more amusing when they scramble around.