Survivor: Heroes vs Villians

[Lark the Sisterman]

Well, it seems like Tom and Colby are losing any potential grip they might have had on the game. If Colby had any cunning, he would give in to Sugar's approaches and gently tame her ("keep it down, honey bunny, people are trying to sleep" ). Then he could have had her in his back pocket, and together with Candece, Tom and Steph, they would have been a power house.

But that's why he's a hero, I guess- he lacks that kind of hypocrisy that can take you far in this game.

[Cuellar]

LOL, so true. I don't see any strategy on the part of Tom and Colby (probably editing).

Last time I saw James though, he was acting like a dipshit. James has zero strategy, and always looks like a physical threat. He isn't very bright either, therefore he has absolutely no chance in survivor. At least the Tom and Colby's out there are real heros and can sustain the alliance. James last time aligned himself with 2 of the shittiest backstabers ever, Amanda and Parvati. I like him but holy shit he needs to help himself a little.

I think the heroes tribe is full of dumbasses. They're completely incapable of solving puzzles and such as a team. I'd expect cirie to do a mediocre job, and maybe Amanda... so I'm not sure why they can't just suck it up.

It actually is a good strategy to enter a merge as the noticeably smaller tribe. People are obsessed with the final 3, and almost always the bigger tribe fractures in half and the little guys can seem to attach themselves in a new final alliance and take it to victory.

[Tsavong Lah]

LOL, so true. I don't see any strategy on the part of Tom and Colby (probably editing).

Last time I saw James though, he was acting like a dipshit. James has zero strategy, and always looks like a physical threat. He isn't very bright either, therefore he has absolutely no chance in survivor. At least the Tom and Colby's out there are real heros and can sustain the alliance. James last time aligned himself with 2 of the shittiest backstabers ever, Amanda and Parvati. I like him but holy shit he needs to help himself a little.

I think the heroes tribe is full of dumbasses. They're completely incapable of solving puzzles and such as a team. I'd expect cirie to do a mediocre job, and maybe Amanda... so I'm not sure why they can't just suck it up.

It actually is a good strategy to enter a merge as the noticeably smaller tribe. People are obsessed with the final 3, and almost always the bigger tribe fractures in half and the little guys can seem to attach themselves in a new final alliance and take it to victory.

Pretty much a perfect analysis of why James never has a shot at Survivor.

And as the game has evolved, it is approaching almost a rule that you want to be in a minority when you reach the merge, which is funny because it was the exact opposite at the beginning.

Borneo: Tagi got the numbers on Pagong and executed the first "Pagonging"

Outback: Ogakor did a surgical "Pagonging", while getting rid of its "extras" whenever they weren't needed.

Africa: Very nearly had the first breakdown of an alliance, but after getting rid of Kelly the rest of old Boran got it together (and Brandon was dumb) and stayed together.

Marquesas: The first underdog victory story. Shows the danger of being too obvious with the boot order.

Thailand: Back to Pagonging

Amazon: Rob C creates the "bottom-feeder" strategy and the "majority" switches nearly every week.

Pearl Islands: Very similar gameplay to Amazon, only replace Rob C with Fairplay. A person who at one point was in the minority (when Rupert got voted out) came back to win.

All-Stars: Boston Rob controls the game and makes it a pagonging.

Post All-Stars things start to break down more and the underdogs start doing a lot better.

Vanuatu: Chris defies all the odds, outlasting an alliance of 6 women to win.

Palau: Because of utter immunity domination, this becomes a de facto Pagonging.

Gautemala: Danni survives being the last of her tribe against 5 from the other tribe.

Panama: Haven't watched yet, will be getting to it in the next couple of weeks.

Cook Islands: Getting to this one too, but I know Yul's tribe was down 8-4 and he came back to win.

Fiji: Still have to watch.

China: Pagonging with elimination of non-essential alliance members.

Micronesia: Strange dynamics caused an alliance to form after the merge from both tribes.

Gabon: The bottom-feeders really dominated this whole season. Was really defined by Susie flipping.

Tocantins: A 6-3 comeback.

Samoa: An 8-4 comeback.

So from the first 8 seasons, only Marquesas and Amazon had someone from a minority alliance at the merge win (and Amazon was strange with alliances amongst both old and new tribes, with me counting it since the women were a minority at the merge). Pearl Islands had even 5-5, but Lill jumped to old Drake and made it to the end losing to Sandra, an old Drake.

Post All-Stars, we've seen about half the time a non-majority member has won (and I don't know what the alliances were like in Panama and Fiji, but I think Earl was in a minority alliance (oh, the pun) at the merge. And the past 3 seasons have really been defined by the unlikelies doing well.

[awesome possum]

LOL, so true. I don't see any strategy on the part of Tom and Colby (probably editing).

This is true. If they were both smart they would have cut Steph loose, but because both have to be honorable (in a game that rewards less than honorable behavior) they've set themselves up as major outsiders. The only positives they have at the moment is strength, but that won't matter if they keep losing challenges, and can only take them so far. Their only chance is to end up together after a tribe switch-up.

Last time I saw James though, he was acting like a dipshit. James has zero strategy, and always looks like a physical threat. He isn't very bright either, therefore he has absolutely no chance in survivor. At least the Tom and Colby's out there are real heros and can sustain the alliance. James last time aligned himself with 2 of the shittiest backstabers ever, Amanda and Parvati. I like him but holy shit he needs to help himself a little.

James is just about the perfect physical athlete, that's the only positive attribute he has for Survivor. He's very susceptible, which is both a negative and a positive. Positive because he's kept around longer than such a dominant physical threat would be, and negative because it means he's blindsided every time. The man was voted out with two immunity idols in his pocket, after all. He simply doesn't stand a chance.

At this point, which is admittedly very early in the game, I have to think the Heroes are in for a pagonging of their own. If the Villains have a majority come the merge, one or two Heroes might side with an alliance of Villains come the merge to make it to the final four or five. Even if the Heroes make it to the merge with a majority, the tribe is so fractured already they'll quickly align with the minority of Villains to take out their enemies. And then the Villains eat them alive.

Either way, I'd be willing to bet a Hero doesn't make it to the final two or three.

[Slurktan]

Tsavong Lah,

I disagree with your premise wholeheartedly. I mean seriously you think relying on people to be complete and utter idiots to lose themselves the game; as happened in Samoa and Tocantins is a good strategy? You think Vecepia, Danni, and Chris tribe's won from their respective seasons? Honestly? You think it was a proper strategy for example, that Chris's strategy was to get everyone on his tribe voted out and relying on bitchiness to set in so he could sneak by unnoticed until an immunity run? None of that is strategy it is all sheer luck so you are seriously proposing that people go in with a strategy of relying on sheer luck?

Some thoughts on your list:

Fiji - You haven't seen it, Pagonging

Panama - You haven't seen it, complete and utter pagonging.

Micronesia - Once the alliance formed, pagonging.

Cook Islands - Merged at 5-4 and #5 immediately flipped to 4 due to immunity idol, straight pagonging afterwards. Yul was down 8-4 pre-merge after the mutiny.

I also find it interesting that you give full credit for the "strategy" to Chris and Vecepia but do not do the reverse for Jenna in Amazon and Sandra in Pearl Islands. They were of the majority tribe at the time of merge. Technically you could also say Danni was of the majority tribe since she originally was.

Basically your "Strategy" has happened in 3 seasons. All 3 of which with completely inept and stupid majority tribes. 3 out of 19.

It is always, Always, ALWAYS better to be in the majority tribe at the merge. Even if like in Samoa it doesn't work it in their favour at least they had the power. If they wanted to in Samoa, Galu could have Pagonged Foa Foa without Foa Foa being able to do anything about it.

[Gertrude]

I agree that Colby and Tom really aren't built to get far in this game. They both got lucky they were in a majority tribe and never really had to deal with the sneaky dealings that go on when people scramble to stay alive. I'm not saying they have no skill or strategy - they obviously do, but it's different. They lead from the front and inspire people to trust them. It also makes it easy to work around them if you need to because they are pretty transparent and honest. Look at Tom when he couldn't lie to Candance about her position in the relative alliances - he didn't want to lead her on even though it was in his best interest to do so. They might adapt their playstyle, but I haven't seen evidence of it yet.

Being in a minority tribe at merge can give you some very interesting options by being swing vote and prying open existing cracks, but mostly they are reacting and not in a great position. Not somewhere you prefer to be. Obviously people can get the majority to crack and do so to their advantage, but it relies too much on luck, the fickle island gods, and the stupidity of your opponents - as said above.

[Demonblade]

Parvati: She(Jerri)'s just a bitter old cougar. :lol:

[Tears of Lys]

Parvati: She(Jerri)'s just a bitter old cougar.

Meow! And Jerri: I want to just punch her face in.

And I am now convinced that James has 'roid rage.

[Demonblade]

What's surprising to me (and shouldn't be, given the last time she was on Survivor) is that everybody knows that Parvati's dangerous. The guys are all aware and the girls are all aware, everybody knows that sooner or later her still being around is going to bite them in the ass, and despite this, they still don't get rid of her! And from the previews of next episode it looks that the pressure is most definitely off of her and the Rob/Russell showdown is on. I don't know whether to be appalled at the utter idiocy of the 'villains' tribe or impressed at Parvati's survival skills.

[Slurktan]

I honestly think I could watch a daily hour long show devoted to just following Coach around in his daily life. The guy is just a fascinating mix of douchebaggery, delusion, pride, zen, and a very, very small hint of actual strategic intelligence all mixed into one.

Seriously for the life of me I cannot see why a person or group of people would want to vote out Coach until the very end. He cannot possibly win and will be utterly and slavishly loyal to you. The perfect patsy.

As to the game, well Randy was a foregone conclusion. Pavarti is dangerous and all but Randy is just useless all around. Interesting that the challenge was blatantly favoured to the Heroes though. Instead of the "Heroes vs. Villains" name they should have went with "Strength vs. Smarts".

EDIT: I also enjoyed in the preview for next week Coach crying to Assistant Coach. I hope they team up again.

[kuenjato]

I honestly think I could watch a daily hour long show devoted to just following Coach around in his daily life. The guy is just a fascinating mix of douchebaggery, delusion, pride, zen, and a very, very small hint of actual strategic intelligence all mixed into one.

Even better is the random assortment of Coach faces. Coach meditating. Coach angry. Coach indignant/pompous. Coach sad (this one after he had to 'betray' Randy). I seriously hope he lasts a long, long way.

Though the preview indicates Russel is in trouble, given Survivor's tried-in-true switcheroo hype, he'll probably hang around for a while.

It was nice to see nasty Tyson emerge. Did he kiss JT??

[Tsavong Lah]

As to the game, well Randy was a foregone conclusion. Pavarti is dangerous and all but Randy is just useless all around. Interesting that the challenge was blatantly favoured to the Heroes though. Instead of the "Heroes vs. Villains" name they should have went with "Strength vs. Smarts".

Maybe this will be a theme in the future. Since there are rumors that they are going to start filming one regular and one all-star/returning cast survivors each year in the same location (save casting cost, scouting costs, and relocation costs) and might be based on themes.

Also, in response to your earlier post that was responding to me, I can't say I'm entirely serious about that theory. It was more to illustrate partially how dumb some people have gotten in the game, but also how smart others are. The Galu's in Samoa were an example of a dumb tribe (as were the Timbura's in Tocantins), but some strong alliances are broken by the smart people in them because they see they are not at the top of the pecking order (Rob C, Johnny Fairplay). Obviously it still always favors the smart person over the dumb person, and it is usually just a question of where the smart person (people) end up. An alliance of all smart people should be smart enough to not let anyone else in the alliance know they are lower than the very top, and then it should stick together (but not smart enough to see that everyone else is doing that too).

Haven't watched tonight's episode yet and will probably have to wait until tomorrow. I can appreciate Coach so much more than when Tocantins aired. I just need to appreciate him as a character and understand that there is no way in hell that he will ever win, so I don't have to worry about that outcome no matter how long he stays. Besides, the longer he stays the more fulfilling his exit will be.

[Gertrude]

Bah - I don't like Parvati and really wanted her out. Randy may be useless, but as people noted, he's harmless. Parvati is a snake and too slippery by half. It does rather piss me off when women use the flirt card to get ahead. I'd rather see an under-the-radar type win. To be fair though, Parvati uses sex as a supplement to some real strategic thinking and initiative. Still ... meh.

I rather like Jerri this time around. She was never really that villainous originally (IMO). She got a bad rap because she was the foil to Colby Donalson, Superstar! In her last showing, she was trying too hard to shake that rep, but now she's over it and is just herself.

I want more snark from Courtney! That's her only strength, otherwise why even have her on?

If they really are going to alternate new/old casts, I am disappointed. I will admit that I am enjoying this season so far, but really, the other two all-star efforts did nothing for me. I think the reason I am liking this one is that they are showing different sides of a lot of characters, and most of them are truly entertaining. They got a good mix of personalities. Not all of them are shining gems, but the only real duds for me so far are Amanda, Candace and Danielle. Even goody-two shoes Tom and Colby are not totally uninteresting for me.

I also like that they only do one challenge. Much more time for characters and storylines to develop and I wish they would adopt this format permanently. I find the camp life to be much more interesting than listening to Jeff's play by play of the crap they make them do.

[kuenjato]

Tsavong- Coach quoted Martin Luther King Jr. tonight to melodramatic strings. This, I feel, is just the beginning...

[Demonblade]

Well Jerri flat out accused another cast member of stealing something that wasn't even stolen and got him voted out simply because he wasn't cool enough for her clique. And the only person she was really nice to in her first season was Colby, and that was only because she was all mooney-eyed over him. She seems too fake for my taste and if I were to choose between the two, honestly, it would be Parvati I would keep, even though I know it would probably mean my doom later on. Parvati seems a lot more fun to be around than Jerri, who still strikes me as a mean-spirited bitch.

[Arbor Gold]

It was nice to see nasty Tyson emerge. Did he kiss JT??

He did! I was really pleased to see Tyson finally get some camera time, that guy is hilarious.

I've been wondering about a hidden immunity idol...looks like that will come in to play next week. Sweet.

[Gertrude]

Well Jerri flat out accused another cast member of stealing something that wasn't even stolen and got him voted out simply because he wasn't cool enough for her clique.

I did forget about that. I wouldn't want to be her friend by any means, but perhaps I should say I am enjoying her edit this season so far. How is Parvati any less mean-spirited than Jerri? They are both cast from a similar mold, I think. Maybe I like Jerri better because she summed up my feelings towards Parvati - I want to punch her in the face.

[SpaceChampion]

Candace is actually more interesting this time as an outsider. I don't quite understand why JT targeted her, since she isn't currently a threat. Shouldn't he worry more about those with alliances, or assumed alliances like Amanda/Cirie?

[Tears of Lys]

Tsavong- Coach quoted Martin Luther King Jr. tonight to melodramatic strings. This, I feel, is just the beginning...

The person responsible for pairing Coach Moments and music should be awarded an Emmy.

[Whiskeyjack]

Love this season so far. It's fun to see all of the old players back in the game. And to watch them interact with each other. I always wonder how the strong personalities from different seasons would mix if they were playing together, so I'm a huge fan of the All-Star seasons.

I think I might be the only person in the world who actually wants to see Coach win. I can see that some of you are starting to enjoy watching him, but you just want him to stick around so you can continue to be entertained. I've moved beyond that, to actually cheering for him.

Really looking forward to the Boston Rob v. Russell clash, but not sure who I want to survive. I like them both, and would prefer to have them both stick around for a while. So much more fun to watch them than a player like Sandra. I know some of you like her, but to me, she is boring as hell. She directly admitted last night that she just wants to go with the flow and follow the group. That strategy can obviously work if you are in the right situation, but I don't have any respect for it.

On the Heroes tribe....am I the only one who thinks Rupert is annoying as hell? He seems like a good guy, but one who is a bit socially awkward and trying way too hard to impress people. I'm also kind of put off by J.T. - I like that he's trying to play a strategic game, but he seems to be buying in to the idea that he can charm anybody, and it's a little obnoxious. For some reason, I'm okay with Russell acting that way, but not J.T. - maybe because Russell is more blunt about it.