NFL the offseason

[Rhom]

On ESPN radio last week, I heard them report that "multiple sources" claim that the Eagles traded McNabb to the Skins because they were afraid that Shanahan would draft Sam Bradford and that Philly would then have to face Shanny/Bradford for the next decade. They claim the McNabb trade was a pre-emptive move to block the Skins from taking a young QB that the Eagles fear.

:stunned:

Seriously? People report this sort of thing? And should I really believe that Philadelphia fears Sam Bradford that much???? I wish I could be an ESPN reporter, this is the sort of stuff my father-in-law comes back from the barber shop with! I could report that "multiple sources" told me this as well... nevermind that the multiple sources are comeing from the Rineyville equivalent of Fantastic Sams. :rolleyes:

[Trebla]

No. They don't want the problems that Holmes comes with. He's been in trouble one too many times...right after he was drafted, he was in trouble twice in the first month. The Steelers won't put up with that. It doesn't matter what they have invested in him or what they get out of the trade. They won't tolerate it. Never have, never will. (Although why they got rid of Cedric Wilson and kept James Harrison is beyond me.)Ben is next, especially if the DA in Georgia charges him in the sexual assault case. That's two strikes for him.

We're not hurting for wide receivers. We still have Hines Ward, and Randel-El re-signed. Plus Mike Wallace and a couple of others. We'll be all right.

Well, we'll see with Ben. ESPN was reporting all weekend that their sources are saying there will be no charges. The DA is expected to make the announcement today. After that, he's expected to meet with Roger Goodell. THAT will be interesting. Even if there are no charges, Goodell has in the past suspended players for violating the NFL Players Conduct.

It's going to be interesting to see if the NFL and the Steelers are REALLY willing to go after a white, star QB.

[Rhom]

It's going to be interesting to see if the NFL and the Steelers are REALLY willing to go after a white, star QB.

Well, they may have some sort of action against him; but most of the players who have run afoul of Goodell have either had a long string of incidents that were in the gray area of legality (Pacman) or have actually been convicted (Vick). Roethlisberger is certainly beginning to accumulate a track record of poor decisions, but nothing like the other players who have been suspended... yet. The question really boils down to how pre-emptive does the comish want to get. IMO.

[Jaime L]

We're not hurting for wide receivers. We still have Hines Ward, and Randel-El re-signed. Plus Mike Wallace and a couple of others. We'll be all right.

I dunno. Ward is older than the Rooneys and there's a reason the Skins purged themselves of Randle-El. Holmes was clearly their best receiver at this point. Wallace has definite potential, but if he's now getting all the attention Holmes used to draw, think there'll be a number of plays where there's just no-one open.

And what's with the Jets becoming the halfway house for all troubled AFC North WRs? Feels like they got another steal.

On ESPN radio last week, I heard them report that "multiple sources" claim that the Eagles traded McNabb to the Skins because they were afraid that Shanahan would draft Sam Bradford and that Philly would then have to face Shanny/Bradford for the next decade. They claim the McNabb trade was a pre-emptive move to block the Skins from taking a young QB that the Eagles fear.

:stunned:

Seriously? People report this sort of thing? And should I really believe that Philadelphia fears Sam Bradford that much???? I wish I could be an ESPN reporter, this is the sort of stuff my father-in-law comes back from the barber shop with! I could report that "multiple sources" told me this as well... nevermind that the multiple sources are comeing from the Rineyville equivalent of Fantastic Sams. :rolleyes:

Yeah, thought that was the most idiotic of the rumors I'd heard on PFT. Really, so the Eagles are going to give the Skins their All Pro QB to keep them from drafting a QB who's been knocked out of games on the last two times he was hit? That's the decision making? I hope the Eagles are that dumb, but I don't but it for a second.

[Nymeria Sand]

I dunno. Ward is older than the Rooneys and there's a reason the Skins purged themselves of Randle-El. Holmes was clearly their best receiver at this point. Wallace has definite potential, but if he's now getting all the attention Holmes used to draw, think there'll be a number of plays where there's just no-one open.

I can see your point. But we also signed that other receiver--Battles, I think his name is. And there's Limus Sweed, who is better than people give him credit for.

Holmes was nothing but trouble from Minute One. I think the Rooneys were right to just cut their losses and get rid of him.

We'll be all right. It might be a rough season, but it'll work out.

In other news, the Georgia DA will NOT file charges against Roethlisberger. Whether he did anything or not, that's two strikes for him. He needs to grow up and exercise more control over himself and show better judgment--he's 28, not 21, and it's time to act like it.

I hope Goodell lays down the law. And the Steelers also have the option to suspend him for a game or two on their own.

I'll be surprised if we don't draft a QB.

[Space Bandito]

When do the Jets pick up Haynesworth for a 4th and a Wendy's triple stacker with cheese?

My Patriots are putting a lot of faith in this draft and Brady's knee.

[Jaime L]

Holmes was nothing but trouble from Minute One. I think the Rooneys were right to just cut their losses and get rid of him.

Holmes might've been a problem-child, but I think you can argue the Steelers don't win that second Superbowl without him.

Ironically, I look at him like I look at Burress and the Giants. Both aren't good guys, both ended badly...but both were also integral to a Superbowl winning team and both made game-winning TD catches in the final minute of the Superbowl.

In other news, the Georgia DA will NOT file charges against Roethlisberger. Whether he did anything or not, that's two strikes for him. He needs to grow up and exercise more control over himself and show better judgment--he's 28, not 21, and it's time to act like it.

Agreed. Even if completely innocent, it still doesn't come off in a good way. Hard to look at him the same way.

When do the Jets pick up Haynesworth for a 4th and a Wendy's triple stacker with cheese?

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

[Mya Stone]

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

You and me both.

At least this season's "Hard Knocks" on HBO will be comedy. Rex Ryan + LaBabyian + Santonio = Must See TV for Mya.

[Nymeria Sand]

Holmes might've been a problem-child, but I think you can argue the Steelers don't win that second Superbowl without him.

Ironically, I look at him like I look at Burress and the Giants. Both aren't good guys, both ended badly...but both were also integral to a Superbowl winning team and both made game-winning TD catches in the final minute of the Superbowl.

Er, well, obviously we won another Super Bowl without Burress. We can win another one without Holmes. If it doesn't happen right away, so be it. We waited 26 years for one; we can wait awhile for another one. :)

Agreed. Even if completely innocent, it still doesn't come off in a good way. Hard to look at him the same way.

I doubt he was completely innocent. He admits there was "sexual contact" (by which he means she at least gave him a blow job), but what the hell was he thinking?

On second thought, don't answer that. :)

We hear stories of the same kind of thing about him here in Pittsburgh. Apparently he's an obnoxious jerk who thinks he's God's gift to women.

[Slurktan]

In other news, the Georgia DA will NOT file charges against Roethlisberger. Whether he did anything or not, that's two strikes for him. He needs to grow up and exercise more control over himself and show better judgment--he's 28, not 21, and it's time to act like it.

I hope Goodell lays down the law. And the Steelers also have the option to suspend him for a game or two on their own.

Quite frankly that is an absolutely disgusting attitude. If as it appears he did nothing, he gets punished. Because he's 28 and single and he decided he wanted to get laid in the off season. Never knew Steelers fans were the be all and end all of sexual morality.

If they suspend him if he's been deemed innocent I hope he sues them for lost wages.

[Nymeria Sand]

Quite frankly that is an absolutely disgusting attitude. If as it appears he did nothing, he gets punished. Because he's 28 and single and he decided he wanted to get laid in the off season. Never knew Steelers fans were the be all and end all of sexual morality.

If they suspend him if he's been deemed innocent I hope he sues them for lost wages.

There's a thing called a Code of Conduct. If he violated it, they can suspend him.

It's not about sexual morality. It's about his consistently poor judgment. If he wanted to get laid, he should have rented a room. Not in a disgusting bar restroom for a couple of hundred people to see. And he shoudln't do it with a 20 year old underage college girl who was probably trashed to begin with--with alcohol that HE bought her!

People lose their jobs because of stories like this that just circulate in the office or because of things posted on Facebook, whether they're true or not. Should Roethlisberger be any different because he's an NFL star? No. If anything, you'd think he'd be held to a higher standard.

But I guess you don't think his off-season, um, "performance" has anything to do with his job on the field. He's being paid to represent his team both on the field and off, and if he makes the team look bad at any time, they have the right to discipline him.

[Kalbear]

Quite frankly that is an absolutely disgusting attitude. If as it appears he did nothing, he gets punished. Because he's 28 and single and he decided he wanted to get laid in the off season. Never knew Steelers fans were the be all and end all of sexual morality.

Or - you know you have a rep, you know that women know this and are preying on you - why make it easy for them?

like it or not, Ben is a star. He's a big name. And that means there are going to be women who don't want his best interests. That does change his life some. And he's really not doing so. That alone shows bad judgment, just like the helmet crap.

Also, Santonio Holmes for a 5th rounder is robbery. The only thing better is Randy Moss for a 4th. Serious robbery. Yes, he might have been something of a troublemaker (though nothing like Burress) but he was by far the best receiver on the team and was young. I just don't see the value.

[Whiskeyjack]

Also, Santonio Holmes for a 5th rounder is robbery. The only thing better is Randy Moss for a 4th. Serious robbery. Yes, he might have been something of a troublemaker (though nothing like Burress) but he was by far the best receiver on the team and was young. I just don't see the value.

Completely agree. Horrible trade for Pittsburgh.

Even if they were dead set on dealing Holmes, how do they only get a 5th rounder?

[Nymeria Sand]

Or - you know you have a rep, you know that women know this and are preying on you - why make it easy for them?

like it or not, Ben is a star. He's a big name. And that means there are going to be women who don't want his best interests. That does change his life some. And he's really not doing so. That alone shows bad judgment, just like the helmet crap.

Also, Santonio Holmes for a 5th rounder is robbery. The only thing better is Randy Moss for a 4th. Serious robbery. Yes, he might have been something of a troublemaker (though nothing like Burress) but he was by far the best receiver on the team and was young. I just don't see the value.

It's not always about money. What we're hearing here is that they just wanted to get rid of him--it was either trade him ASAP or release him outright. If they released him outright, they'd get absolutely nothing. At least this way, they got a pick for him.

[Bronn Stone]

Quite frankly that is an absolutely disgusting attitude. If as it appears he did nothing, he gets punished. Because he's 28 and single and he decided he wanted to get laid in the off season. Never knew Steelers fans were the be all and end all of sexual morality.

If they suspend him if he's been deemed innocent I hope he sues them for lost wages.

He's in a business that involves significant revenues based on marketing value. He diminishes his value (and the value of the business) every time he gets himself in situations where accusations of this sort can be made. He is compensated quite substantially exactly because of the value he brings to the team and the organization. And this is tied first and foremost to the league's appeal to advertisers. By putting himself in position for claims of this sort to be made, he is diminishing his value to the team and the league.

The court of public opinion does not and should not equate 'the legal system can't prove the accusation true' with 'the accusation is false'. And unless the Georgia DA makes an announcement to the effect that the accuser is either engaging in fraud of suffering from severe psychological distress that makes her incapable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality, I reserve the right to consider his character most suspect. And I'd expect the Steelers and the NFL and especially their advertisers to do the same.

Mr. Roethlisberger signed a contract for $102M to represent the Steelers on the football field and off. Included in that contract were agreements on behavior both on and off the field. Ben would be a fool of the first order to respond to this situation in any manner other than accepting his responsibility to present himself in a way that represents the Steeler organization and the NFL in a positive light at all times.

If the Player's Association determines that due process hasn't been followed in accordance with the general contract, then he can let THEM take up that issue. But I don't see that happening.

[Nymeria Sand]

Holmes has been suspended for the first four games of the season:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049816-66.stm

Well, he's someone else's problem now. And he's not even a Jet for 24 hours and they've lost him for 25% of the season.

Steelers were ready to cut Holmes before trade:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049772-66.stm

The Steelers were prepared to release wide receiver Santonio Holmes had they not been able to trade him, sources told the Post-Gazette today.

They took the best deal they could find late Sunday night -- a fifth-round choice in the April 22-24 draft from the New York Jets. It was the best offer they received after talking to a number of other NFL teams about trading Holmes.

No one else wanted him.

No charges for Roethlisberger:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049817-66.stm

[Whiskeyjack]

Holmes has been suspended for the first four games of the season:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10102/1049816-66.stm

Well, he's someone else's problem now. And he's not even a Jet for 24 hours and they've lost him for 25% of the season.

It was common knowledge that he'd be suspended before the trade. I read about it on Saturday.

Still a steal for the Jets.

[Kalbear]

It is - especially if he can turn it around. And substance abuse isn't good by any means, but it's not nearly the red flag other behavioral issues are; lots of players have had issues with it and gone on for long careers.

I'm honestly shocked that the Pats didn't bite on this too. Can you imagine Moss and Holmes? And the Pats do a great job figuring out a player and getting them to buy in, and it's not like they can't afford the 5th round pick.

[Slurktan]

He's in a business that involves significant revenues based on marketing value. He diminishes his value (and the value of the business) every time he gets himself in situations where accusations of this sort can be made. He is compensated quite substantially exactly because of the value he brings to the team and the organization. And this is tied first and foremost to the league's appeal to advertisers. By putting himself in position for claims of this sort to be made, he is diminishing his value to the team and the league.

The court of public opinion does not and should not equate 'the legal system can't prove the accusation true' with 'the accusation is false'. And unless the Georgia DA makes an announcement to the effect that the accuser is either engaging in fraud of suffering from severe psychological distress that makes her incapable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality, I reserve the right to consider his character most suspect. And I'd expect the Steelers and the NFL and especially their advertisers to do the same.

Mr. Roethlisberger signed a contract for $102M to represent the Steelers on the football field and off. Included in that contract were agreements on behavior both on and off the field. Ben would be a fool of the first order to respond to this situation in any manner other than accepting his responsibility to present himself in a way that represents the Steeler organization and the NFL in a positive light at all times.

If the Player's Association determines that due process hasn't been followed in accordance with the general contract, then he can let THEM take up that issue. But I don't see that happening.

This and Nymeria's argument can be boiled down to: Protect the Shield or else. Utter horseshit. If they don't like it they can cut him and if it's out of bounds he can sue them for wrongful dismissal.

I also find it intriguing that you know what agreements are detailed in Ben Roethlisberger's contract.

Nymeria,

It's not about sexual morality. It's about his consistently poor judgment. If he wanted to get laid, he should have rented a room. Not in a disgusting bar restroom for a couple of hundred people to see. And he shoudln't do it with a 20 year old underage college girl who was probably trashed to begin with--with alcohol that HE bought her!

Actually Nymeria that paragraph is 100% about your sexual morality. So what if he likes having sex with 20 year olds in bar bathroom's where a couple hundred people apparently with Xray vision can see through things like walls and doors? Some people get off when they get shit on. Why does that matter?

Kalbear,

Yes, its very possible (and probable) that putting himself in these situations leads to him being preyed upon by people looking to take advantage. So either go out and have some fun like a normal human being or be a shut in and possibly be depressed. I can understand your thinking, I just find that solution to that particular problem repulsive.

[Space Bandito]

I'm honestly shocked that the Pats didn't bite on this too. Can you imagine Moss and Holmes? And the Pats do a great job figuring out a player and getting them to buy in, and it's not like they can't afford the 5th round pick.

Pats have been putting a lot of emphasis on locker room this off season. :dunno: That is the unofficial reason for their suckitude last season. Kraft and other officials have hinted at needing to acquire the right kind of player and that they are not merely collecting talent they they want strong character etc. Expecting Adalius Thomas to be released or traded soon.