UK Politics VII - Going down on Downing Street

[BLU-RAY]

Enjoying me some Obama/Cameron press conference right now. Do they just pull people in off the street to ask these questions? Some dumb stuff being asked, though I guess they have to ask it...

[CloudFlare]

What's the background on raiding dormant bank accounts to pay for the "Big Society" programs? What type of accounts are these? I can't believe that the government can get away with this.

[mormont]

What's the background on raiding dormant bank accounts to pay for the "Big Society" programs? What type of accounts are these? I can't believe that the government can get away with this.

Perfectly legal: the last government passed a law to allow this. But do note, 'dormant' in this case means 'no activity - no withdrawals, no deposits, no transactions of any sort - for fifteen years'. And even then you can claim back the money if you find out it's been taken by the government (and can prove it's yours, obviously).

Most of these accounts belong to dead people: the only thing they've done until now has been improve the balance sheet of banks (but very marginally, since there really aren't a lot of them).

[A wilding]

Well, I dont think you have a representative sample of opinion in the thread. I'm not mad keen on the idea myself, but the aim is a little bit more complicated than "deal with your own disasters", though getting rid of public sector workers is closer to one of the aims.

...

You are being serious, most unfair.

But I think I might see where this policy has partly come from. SE England does have its middle class enclaves (e.g. the sort of dormitory village where house prices start at £500K). These enclaves do have a fair number of people, typically early retirees and non working wives, who have time on their hands, miscellaneous useful skills, and are willing to help out the local community. They also have people who can be tapped for funding. Such communities tend to be pretty good at maintaining and improving local amenities and looking after the relatively few number of distressed people in their midst.

I suspect that many Tories have first hand experience of these enclaves and instinctively think that what they do can be copied elsewhere.

[Hereward]

I do try to be serious occasionally, particularly when someone seems to be asking a genuine question.

I take your point about affluent communities, though I don't think that's where the idea came from. The seems to have had its genesis somewhere between the religiously motivated concerns about poverty of Duncan Smith, the Swedish education model, the way the Canadians dealt with their budget crisis in the 90s(?) plus late input from the decentralisers amongst the LibDems. The Tory MPs from the affluent, community-based parts of the south are generally most opposed to the idea.

[Lyanna Stark]

The Swedish Education model? (I feel uneducated since I don't know this! Oh the irony.) :o

Are you thinking about the trade unions/social democrats drive for the masses to get educated? I am not certain I know of any other Swedish education model, unless it's the failed experiment with people running their own schools. (If it is that, God help us. It was, and always will be, an extremely bad idea.)

[Lummel]

The latter. I've heard Gove trying to defend it on the radio. I understand that in Sweden you can make money out of running one of these schools, but the conservatives are trying to have them set up without any profit motive.

[Isis]

This is not about abolishing key state services, per se (that's the comprehensive spending review!).

I know he could never be arsed to discuss politics here but it's a shame tomfoster doesn't post here anymore since this is his job now.

Personally, I don't think it will work, but I can see why they're doing it. Lots of people have been complaining about the target culture, the rigid centralisation of means and outcomes, the inaccesibility of government bodies to local and personal concerns and pressure, and the bureaucratisation of processes, plus the mindset of waiting for government to "do something"

This all reminds me of the DOH analysis of the swine flu pandemic - they used a model of 'disaster management' based on some epic flooding in the north of England. Evidence showed that in regions where there was a "community" with *gasp* 'well respected local figures' things were much better overall, recovery was quicker, people were happier and more positive about the situation. Where there was no community people were stuck waiting for central government and the PM (yes, the actual PM) to turn up and reassure them/tell them what to do, recovery took longer and people were more miserable (than usual) generally. I found that whole knight on a charger coming to the rescue thing fascinating - that people genuinely expected someone from Westminster to show up in person and fix stuff.

It makes you think twice about how you interact with your neighbours. Kind of.

Shame people are selfish, intolerant, disorganised and a bit stupid.

People are horrifically stupid. I think there's a have and have not divide with intelligence (and attending university has fuck all to do with it since they give almost everyone who goes a first or a 2:1 these days. I mean, how is that even possible? Don't get me started.).

[mcbigski]

Nice to see Cameron flying back to the UK on a commercial flight. He's actually shown leadership on reducing cost and CO2 emmisions (even if largely symbolically), unlike a lot of other politicians, who seem to recommend belt tightening and carbon rationing for others, but keep their own privileges sacrosanct.

[mormont]

The trouble with a symbolic gesture is that you could call it 'showing leadership' or you could call it 'a cheap and easy PR stunt'. Which it is will depend on whether he actually follows it up with substantial and sustained action. On the environment, at least, I am not holding my breath.

[Hereward]

In the absence of a prime ministerial plane, and taking into account that prime ministers always take commercial flights where commercial flights exist, up to this point without being condemned for a "cheap and easy PR stunt", I'm wondering where the dismissiveness comes from.

Ah yes, he's a Tory.

Edit: Actually, carry on. Anyone willing to state that the UK was the junior partner in the fight against Germany in 1940 deserves everything they get.

[Usotsuki]

He was being environmentally responsible and recycling his WSJ editorial for Sky News and simply left out the s in 1940s - from time to time we all have these lapses*.

I'm rather more amused by the Nick Clegg gaffe.

*By inadvertently replacing an o with an a one can accidentally call a Japanese police oficer a "c**t" when one meant to say "complain" - it does not make for a pleasant evening.

[Hereward]

The wanderer returns! I'd assumed your new responsibilities were preventing you from posting, but now my theory that you are actually Danny Alexander is looking less watertight. :unsure:

[Usotsuki]

:lol:

At least you didn't think I was David Laws.

[Lummel]

Nice to see Cameron flying back to the UK on a commercial flight. He's actually shown leadership on reducing cost and CO2 emmisions (even if largely symbolically), unlike a lot of other politicians, who seem to recommend belt tightening and carbon rationing for others, but keep their own privileges sacrosanct.

Meh. It would have been showing symbolic leadership if he had crossed the ocean on a sailing ship built from timber from sustainably managed forests in a british shipyard and crewed by reformed ex-offenders.

This all reminds me of the DOH analysis of the swine flu pandemic - they used a model of 'disaster management' based on some epic flooding in the north of England. Evidence showed that in regions where there was a "community" with *gasp* 'well respected local figures' things were much better overall, recovery was quicker, people were happier and more positive about the situation. Where there was no community people were stuck waiting for central government and the PM (yes, the actual PM) to turn up and reassure them/tell them what to do, recovery took longer and people were more miserable (than usual) generally. I found that whole knight on a charger coming to the rescue thing fascinating - that people genuinely expected someone from Westminster to show up in person and fix stuff.

Did the analysis have any examples of 'well respected local figures' taking a lead and how did they define a 'community'? Did either 'well respected local figures' or 'community' cause better management and quicker recovery or was this just shorthand for there being more effective organisation or structures in those places in the first place?

But yes if people do believe in the white knight from westminster galloping in to slay the dragon, then that is scary.

[Lyanna Stark]

Edit: Actually, carry on. Anyone willing to state that the UK was the junior partner in the fight against Germany in 1940 deserves everything they get.

Ouch yes. My SO is not a huge patriot but even he raised an eyebrow at this comment.

I will actually give Cameron the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a slip of the tongue (I have had my morning coffee today so I feel marvellously benevolent).

Regarding the commercial flight, isn't that almost necessary in times like these, even if there was another option? It would seem a really stupid move to go by private jet at the same time as you preach belt tightening and 25% cuts all around. Not so much a PR move as an avoidance of looking like a complete tosser.

Meh. It would have been showing symbolic leadership if he had crossed the ocean on a sailing ship built from timber from sustainably managed forests in a british shipyard and crewed by reformed ex-offenders.

:lol:

I'd have paid good money to see this!

[mormont]

In the absence of a prime ministerial plane, and taking into account that prime ministers always take commercial flights where commercial flights exist, up to this point without being condemned for a "cheap and easy PR stunt", I'm wondering where the dismissiveness comes from.

Ah yes, he's a Tory.

Edit: Actually, carry on. Anyone willing to state that the UK was the junior partner in the fight against Germany in 1940 deserves everything they get.

I didn't know what you were referencing in the edit at first. :lol: That little slip, I'm actually inclined to view charitably. Cameron made a remark without properly engaging his brain, that's all. People sometimes do.

The flight thing, to be clear: I'm dismissive only of the view expressed above that it is, in itself, worthy of praise.

(p.s.: my understanding is that, while the PM doesn't have a plane and does take commercial flights where possible, Cameron doesn't basically commandeer the first-class cabin on security grounds as previous PMs were wont to do. However, even that might be spin?)

[Lyanna Stark]

(p.s.: my understanding is that, while the PM doesn't have a plane and does take commercial flights where possible, Cameron doesn't basically commandeer the first-class cabin on security grounds as previous PMs were wont to do. However, even that might be spin?)

Spin will be when he flies Ryanair with the rest of us normal cattle and scrambles to get on among the first in order to get a window seat. :P

[Lummel]

Anyone willing to state that the UK was the junior partner in the fight against Germany in 1940 deserves everything they get.

I always thought that the appropriate response to someone saying something like that was to say that it underlined the need for both a greater emphasis on traditional teaching methods and an enhanced place in the national curriculum for Tudor and Churchill lessons.

[The Iceman of the North]

Certainly there can't be much of a debate on this? In terms of manpower, the UK was a junior partner to Uncle Joseph.