A Thread for Small Questions III

[Seerow]

Yes. aSoS appendix:

"-QYBURN, a chainless maester and sometime necromancer"

He also related his reasoning on why ghosts could be real to Jaime, and when he talks to cersei about the venom used on Gregor he says:

"But this poison...it would be useful to know more about it would it not? Send a knight to slay a knight and an archer to kill an archer, the smallfolk often say. To combat the black arts..." He did not finish the thought, but only smiled at her.

Shortly after that he admits that his expulsion from the Citadel was because he had been vivisecting humans. So we have him called a necromancer, his interest in what remains behind after death, evidence of ruthless cruelty to living human subjects in pursuit of his studies, and he practically calls him self a dark sorcerer. Yeah, he's a necromancer.

Okay, I didn't read the appendix so I missed that. And I didn't take vivisecting a living human as in of itself making him a necromancer, just a crazy bastard.

Thanks for the response.

[Shahrizai]

Qyburn creeps me out majorly...the way he appears in the beginning, kindly almost, helping Jaime and then appearing "grandfatherly" to Brienne and Cersei. Then we find out what he likes to get up to down in the Black Cells and we cease to wonder why he'd be riding with the Bloody Mummers...gross.

Mirri maz Duur had come across someone from Westeros who had also cut people up and examined them (Marwyn) but this was always AFTER they'd died, as an autopsy, presumably...not messing with poisons and zombies, etc.

[Tyrion1240]

You must be farther along than I am. I'm just after the samwell chapter with the battle at the Fist of the First Men. One of the best of the whole series, in my opinion. But, back to the question, just because she's a Dayne doesn't mean there isn't a little dragon blood running through those veins. Those Targaryens didn't all have sisters to marry.

[mcbigski]

This will probably wake the dragon, but I was wondering about the Night's Watch. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Bran's three-eyed crow is not an literal bird, but is most likely a member of the Night's Watch, perhaps something to do with their origins. It seems that mostly people from beyond The Wall refer to the Night's watch as 'crows'. And seeing as Bran opens his 'third eye' throughout the series, it stands to reason, that this Three-Eyed Crow would be a person of similar abilites, perhaps Uncle Benjen? I used to subscribe to the theory that Coldhands was Benjen, but after re-reading Bran's last chapter in ASOS, Sam states that Coldhands was sent to find Bran, to me it seems unlikely that Benjen would be someone to do the fetching. What do you think? :cheers:

Brynden Rivers aka Blood Raven, is mostly likely to be the original identity of Coldhands IMO, if Coldhands is someone who has been referenced before. Mostly he's mentioned in the Sworn Sword short story though Aemon reminisces about him at least once in AFfC, IIRC.

As for the TEC, not sure he's the same entity at all as Coldhands. He just feels more primal, somehow.

[Dryvus]

Question about Melisandre's riddle on page 24 of A Clash Of Kings. Melisandre says "Now here is a riddle. A clever fool and a foolish wise man."

....

So where's the part where it's a riddle? That's a sentence fragment.

[corbon]

Question about Melisandre's riddle on page 24 of A Clash Of Kings. Melisandre says "Now here is a riddle. A clever fool and a foolish wise man."

....

So where's the part where it's a riddle? That's a sentence fragment.

It's just a subtle (well, not really!) way of putting down Maester Cressen (IIRC), rather than actually asking a riddle. Quite nasty really, in a sneakily polite way.

It's that she can see a "riddle's answer" in tableau in the room. 'Look, its the answer to a funny riddle - a wise fool and a foolish wise man' standing here before us.

[Mad Monkey]

She might as well have said, "Hey, guys, do you know what a DUMBASS looks like? Well, a DUMBASS looks like an old man -- about 80 years of age -- with a lame hip and an even lamer brain. They usually wear these weird multicolored chains around their neck. Hey, Cressen, have you seen anyone who fits that moronic description, you dumbass?"

[Dryvus]

It's just a subtle (well, not really!) way of putting down Maester Cressen (IIRC), rather than actually asking a riddle. Quite nasty really, in a sneakily polite way.

It's that she can see a "riddle's answer" in tableau in the room. 'Look, its the answer to a funny riddle - a wise fool and a foolish wise man' standing here before us.

But she didn't say "Here is a riddle's answer." She said "Here's a riddle."

She's so dumb.

[mikeym]

Hi,

I've a wee question that's been bugging me (while to site was down - good to be back). When Brienne sees the Titan's Daughter in Brienne V (AFFC) is Arya on board on her way from Saltpans to Bravos or has it come back again?

If she is there Brienne got very close to one of the Stark girls at least, but her story would have to be running quite far behind the other stories at that point I think for the chronology to work out (that or Arya's quite far ahead).

[Quanta]

Off the top of my head I'm fairly certain that Arya is in Bravvos at the time Brienne sees the Titan's Daughter. The raid on Salt Pans happens very shortly after Arya sets out while Brienne's sighting happens some time afterwards. The chronology of the series is pretty fuzzy but I think it is fairly safe to say that Brienne sees the ship after they've dropped off Arya and returned to Westeros.

[mikeym]

Just thinking about it a bit more I don't think that there's time for the Titan's Daughter to have gone to Bravos and back. Arya leaves a matter of days or hours before the raid on Saltpans according to the the elder brother on the Quiet Isle. Brienne takes a bit of time to head to head to Saltpans not leaving immediately and not taking the most direct route there, but when she arrives the raid is still fairly fresh and the "hound" and his raiders are still trapped in the area.

(edit) You're right though about Arya's story appearing much earlier on in the book. I think maybe Arya's story is quite advanced at this point or Brienne's is quite far behind.

(another edit) There's some ideas about timelines on the AFFC Re-Read for Brienne. Although they also seem confused about the time line and when the raid of Saltpans occurred they do seem to pace it just a few days before the Titan's Daughter is seen in Madenpool. Also of note is that the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is only just getting around to burying the septon of Saltpans when Brienne arrives there.

[Werthead]

Arya's age at the start of A Game of Thrones. My 1998 and 2007 UK editions of A Game of Thrones both explicitly say nine in the appendices, and the same-year editions of A Clash of Kings many months later say she's now ten, in the latter case specifically noting the passing of her birthday in the text.

The wiki says she's eight at the start of A Game of Thrones. I know that the Revised Edition of GoT (the one which fixes the relationship of King Viserys to Daeron I and Baelor) has never been published in the UK, so this could be a revised edition change which never made it into the UK editions. Which age is correct?

[pad]

I'm re-reading AGoT and I came across a cool little tidbit:

When Lord Varys is secretly visiting Ned Stark in the Red Keep dungeon, he offhandedly mentions that Rhaenys Targaryen had a black kitten and that Varys wondered what had happened to it after she was murdered. Does anyone else think this is the same one-eyed black tomcat that Arya was attempting to catch earlier? Some described that black tom as the real master of the castle.

[PestilencE]

^ quite possibly. I'd say they're the same cat.

[Jon Targaryen]

Arya's age at the start of A Game of Thrones. My 1998 and 2007 UK editions of A Game of Thrones both explicitly say nine in the appendices, and the same-year editions of A Clash of Kings many months later say she's now ten, in the latter case specifically noting the passing of her birthday in the text.

The wiki says she's eight at the start of A Game of Thrones. I know that the Revised Edition of GoT (the one which fixes the relationship of King Viserys to Daeron I and Baelor) has never been published in the UK, so this could be a revised edition change which never made it into the UK editions. Which age is correct?

Both US 1st Edition and US Trade Paperback 2002 Edition say nine in AGOT. The only thing I can think of is Arya reflects, when talking to Ned Dayne, that she was eight when she first killed someone.

[SFDanny]

Arya's age at the start of A Game of Thrones. My 1998 and 2007 UK editions of A Game of Thrones both explicitly say nine in the appendices, and the same-year editions of A Clash of Kings many months later say she's now ten, in the latter case specifically noting the passing of her birthday in the text.

The wiki says she's eight at the start of A Game of Thrones. I know that the Revised Edition of GoT (the one which fixes the relationship of King Viserys to Daeron I and Baelor) has never been published in the UK, so this could be a revised edition change which never made it into the UK editions. Which age is correct?

the wiki is wrong if it means when we first meet Arya in Winterfell, but it is likely right if it means at the time of the events of the prologue. Arya is born early in 289 and the arrival of Robert's party in Winterfell takes place in 298 after she has turned nine.

[Dreadwolf]

Hi,

I've a wee question that's been bugging me (while to site was down - good to be back). When Brienne sees the Titan's Daughter in Brienne V (AFFC) is Arya on board on her way from Saltpans to Bravos or has it come back again?

IIRC when Arya was about to board the vessel (ASOS) she was worrying that long bargaining about selling the horse might cause her miss the ship. Hence I am of the opinion that it was probably the only ship at Saltpans by that time. (Moreover she was looking for a vessel to take her North and the Captain of the Titan*s Daughter was clear he will no go there whatever the price might be offered.)

When Brienne was at the docks she saw Titan*s Daughter leaving the port and a good amount of other vessels as well.

That is why IMO Brienne and Arya were beyond any chance of running into each other at Saltpans.

[Errant Bard]

There's some ideas about timelines on the AFFC Re-Read for Brienne. Although they also seem confused about the time line and when the raid of Saltpans occurred they do seem to pace it just a few days before the Titan's Daughter is seen in Madenpool. Also of note is that the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle is only just getting around to burying the septon of Saltpans when Brienne arrives there.

Don't forget and

Bottom line for me is that Brienne hears of The Hound raping and pillaging in Maidenpoole during Brienne 3, meaning that when she first reaches Maidenpoole, Arya already left Sandor, Rorge already picked his helm, already raped and pillaged with his band and there was time for the rumor to hit Maidenpoole (there is NO twitter in Westeros). We know the Titan's Daughter left Saltpan eight days after Arya left Sandor, and that Brienne then made a trip to Cracklaw point with Dick Crabb in Brienne 4. It just does not work to have Arya on board the Titan's Daughter in Brienne 5: if anything, she could have been onboard only if Brienne had seen the ship in Brienne 3, the ship arriving in Maidenpoole synchronised with the Hound rumours.

[mikeym]

When Brienne was at the docks she saw Titan*s Daughter leaving the port and a good amount of other vessels as well.

That is why IMO Brienne and Arya were beyond any chance of running into each other at Saltpans.

Brienne sees the Titan's Daughter when she is looking for board for the night on a ship when she is in Madenpool in Brienne V. This is also when she hears about the raid on Saltpans for the first time.

Bottom line for me is that Brienne hears of The Hound raping and pillaging in Maidenpoole during Brienne 3, meaning that when she first reaches Maidenpoole, Arya already left Sandor, Rorge already picked his helm, already raped and pillaged with his band and there was time for the rumor to hit Maidenpoole (there is NO twitter in Westeros). We know the Titan's Daughter left Saltpan eight days after Arya left Sandor, and that Brienne then made a trip to Cracklaw point with Dick Crabb in Brienne 4. It just does not work to have Arya on board the Titan's Daughter in Brienne 5: if anything, she could have been onboard only if Brienne had seen the ship in Brienne 3, the ship arriving in Maidenpoole synchronised with the Hound rumours.

I see your point. It is a bit hard to justify the time line with Arya's timeline if the "Hound" is already raping his way along the Trident in Brienne III.

Yesterday they had encountered one of Lord Randyll's patrols, bristling with longbows and lances. The horsemen had surrounded them while their captain questioned Brienne, but in the end he'd let them continue on their way. "Be wary, woman. The next men you meet may not be as honest as my lads. The Hound has crossed the Trident with a hundred outlaws, and it's said they are raping every wench they come upon and cutting off their teats for trophies."

But looking at your timeline I just can't read Brienne VI/VII (arriving at the Quiet Isle and visiting Saltpans) as being a month and a half after the event. They're only just getting around to burying the septon (surely the most important person to the faith and the first one who would be buried), and their is still the smell of smoke in the air.

The only way I can read these chapters is that the news of the raid on Saltpans arriving in Madenpool in Brienne V at roughly the same time as the Titan's Daughter (from Saltpans). Brienne then makes her way there (in no great hurry over a week or two and arrives to the aftermath of the raid. The news of the "Hound" raping his way along the Trident in Brienne III I'll just have to take as a bit of (uncharacteristic) artistic licence from GRRM as the only point in Biennne's story to feed you information about movements of the "Hound". Although I accept this most certainly does not tie in well with Arya's timeline for leaving the Hound and reaching Saltpans.

This may all be wishful thinking on my part as I would like to think Brienne at least came close to finding one of the Stark children.

[Dreadwolf]

Brienne sees the Titan's Daughter when she is looking for board for the night on a ship when she is in Madenpool in Brienne V. This is also when she hears about the raid on Saltpans for the first time.

I would just try to make my self clearer -

From ASOS (last Arya) chapter we have that in the port area there were only three ships two of which were relatively small river crafts.

Two were only river galleys, shallow draft boats made to ply the waters of the Trident. The third was bigger, . . .

We understand also that the crew was in a hurry to catch the tide.

Be quick, child, we have a tide to catch.. . .

We got from the text also Arya arrived at Saltpans approaches in the morning.

So my guess is she was speaking with the captain at about noon time - earliest.

Normally it takes no more than two hours for a vessel to get ready for sailing of course the sailor could just be bumptious with the little girl urging her with out so urgent reasons. But by all means vessel departed the same evening at the latest.

From Brienne Chapter (V) we understand that

her interest was in the larger ships that plied the stormy waters of the narrow sea. Half a dozen were in port, though one, a galleas called the Titan*s Daughter, was casting off her lines to ride out on the evening tide.

So it should be late PM

While it is not completely impossible I think is highly unlikely that for the short period of time between the noon (Arya*s boarding) and early evening (Titan*s Daughter unmooring) we would have had five or six newly arrived large sea going vessels.