Shryke Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 So if I refuse to have sex with you (this should not be surprising, really) am I now guilty of racism against canadians?You are if you do it because I'm Canadian, yes.This shit isn't complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You guys seem to be forgetting something. The man pled guilty in a plea bargain. Including allocution of facts. Only when he got his ass handed to him in the sentence did he start crying foul.He was an Arab in Israel. He knew he would lose, and his lawyer forced him to take the plea deal. It does not mean he is guilty of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 If you must call it an agreement, then call it an informal, non-binding agreement. Almost always oral or even unspoken. A sexual agreement relies on the honor of the individuals and is no way enforceable by law. (If assault takes place, that is a different matter entirely.)see: gentlemans agreementAn agreemen can be informal, or even non-verbal and still be binding.Not that an agreement to have sex is binding: It can be rescinded by any party at any point.But that's not the issue here: The issue is that this man lied, thus he invalidate the consent of the other party, hence: Rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 An agreemen can be informal, or even non-verbal and still be binding.Not that an agreement to have sex is binding: It can be rescinded by any party at any point.But that's not the issue here: The issue is that this man lied, thus he invalidate the consent of the other party, hence: Rape.You just said it wasn't a binding agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 So if I refuse to have sex with you (this should not be surprising, really) am I now guilty of racism against canadians?Canadians aren't a race. It would be bigoted but not racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You are if you do it because I'm Canadian, yes.This shit isn't complicated.This is true.It is also irrelevant: Choice of sexual partners is not subjec to discrimination laws (just imagine what fun you couldhave with gender discrimination laws) which only focuse on commrcial tranactions for the most part.It's very possible (Even likely) that the woman is a racist. It's also completely irrelevant. Both because that wasn't the only thing the accused lied about ("being married" would, I suspect, pass the reasonability test for most people) and because there's no discrimination statute that applies to sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You just said it wasn't a binding agreement.Yes, it can be revoked at any time. That's relevant how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tes'thesula Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Just to be clear, is anyone arguing the man should go to prison for 18 months for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 You are if you do it because I'm Canadian, yes.A. How can you tell? Maybe I just prefer taller men or ones with a sense of humor?B. Or theres an australian guy across the room and I love the accent. So, yeah, I'm totally discriminating - but is that illegal? Canadians aren't a race. It would be bigoted but not racist.By that definition, neither are Arabs. Or Jews. (yes, "canadian" would more or less be an equivelant social category to "arab" or "jew" here. Sort of.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delete this account pls Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 A. How can you tell? Maybe I just prefer taller men or ones with a sense of humor?B. Or theres an australian guy across the room and I love the accent. So, yeah, I'm totally discriminating - but is that illegal? Soooo ... Do you come here often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 It's a well-established cause for fraud (and various other kind of breaches and deceptions) If you lie about the particulars of an agreement you are invalidating the consent of the other party. (assuming the lie was relevant to the transation, it's *probably* not relevant if you lied about the international status of TIbet while selling somone a cucumber from Mexico) Same thing here.To be fair, your point about contract law is entirely accurate. And entirely irrelevant, because domestic and personal arrangements are not subject even to the structure of informal/verbal contracts, and are not enforcable under the civil law that pursues breach of contract. Breach of contract is not a matter for criminal law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sariel Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 This whole discussion makes me want to stab myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Consent to sexual intercourse induced by fraud or mistake has been judicially considered. We have statutes that define what consent is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Just to be clear, is anyone arguing the man should go to prison for 18 months for this?Not in my opinion at least. An anti-miscegenation law would seem to be more appropriate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 To be fair, your point about contract law is entirely accurate. And entirely irrelevant, because domestic and personal arrangements are not subject even to the structure of informal/verbal contracts, and are not enforcable under the civil law that pursues breach of contract. Breach of contract is not a matter for criminal law.Fraud, impersonation, etc. etc. are all matters for criminal, and not civil law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaerv Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 It would also be rape if he told her he was a doctor and wasn't, as has been covered up thread.Interesting. This thread taught me that my father has raped my mother when he told her that he was student of medicine instead of "only" a journalist in the beginning of their relationship.Later they married and lived together for 42 years until he died from cancer. They had their crises, as most couples have, but altogether they were happy together. She is still mourning. We learn thus that rape obviously is a good start for a happy and long-lasting marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Fraud, impersonation, etc. etc. are all matters for criminal, and not civil lawJust because something constitutes "fraud" colloquially doesn't mean it constitutes fraud legally. Most states have specific criminal fraud statutes that define the elements of the offense. From the ones I've dealt with, "sex-fraud" would not meet the elements because there's no pecuniary loss. Tortious fraud is usually much more broadly defined, and perhaps you could fit this under a civil theory in a sufficiently egregious case. But good luck getting a criminal prosecution for someone who lied about their age or weight, or how well they were doing in college, what their job is, how often they work out, or how well they liked someone's friends, families, ass, pets, or cooking. And good luck getting even a civil fraud case on any other those "fraudulent misrepresentations to get laid" activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Maybe she'll do her due diligence next time. :smileysex: Ok, the situation is not very funny. I can't believe the guy got 18 months in prison for this. It's all wrong on so many levels.ETR typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarysTheSpider Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We learn thus that rape obviously is a good start for a happy and long-lasting marriage.Word. I've also learned that I have been raped, and it's really not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 We learn thus that rape obviously is a good start for a happy and long-lasting marriage.Again, it's such a huge slap in the face to any person who has actually been raped that it staggers the imagination.Israel, as a nation, should be deeply shamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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