Calling all the kitchen knives aficionado

[Ixodes]

Ahh, handmade knives make me weak in the knees. A fine handmade knife is an heirloom quality gift. A once in a lifetime thing.

I have a custom skinning knife (made by PJ Tomes, an older, now retired knifemaker) that makes me weep every time I hold it.

[Lord of Oop North]

I think that I could listen to Chef talk about knives all day long. Please continue. :drool:

[MercenaryChef]

I think that I could listen to Chef talk about knives all day long. Please continue. :drool:

You feed my ego so, cat. When next the wife and I are in the lively and wonderful nation of canada I would be honored to cook with you.

I love knives in a way that borders on insanity.who buys a woman a knife as a courtship gift? Each day I come in to work, last my knives lovingly on a clean towel for my use. I am more apt to loan my under garments or my car to you than my knife.

[lokisnow]

it's worth pointing out that Kramer's non damascus knives are carbon steel and will discolor if you actually, you know, use it. Additionally Carbon Steel is really the sort of knife that should be used by people who LOVE to sharpen their knives themselves as a carbon Steel knife can take a much sharper edge but it is also quite a bit softer as steel so it needs to be sharpened far more often. Japanese Sushi knives and knives used by Japanese chefs tend to be carbon steel because they sharpen their own knives. Sushi knives are only beveled on one side which means they can become even sharper than regular carbon steel knives. and the bevel can be centimeters wide (rather than the milimeter or so on most knives) but those knives are generally individuals themselves, totally unique and the chef probably sharpens it himself in his own unique way (difference in bevel size means difference in angle adn so on).

Even low grade good knives like Henckles and Wusthof can be brought to a rather exceptional sharpness by sharpening them with a back bevel rather than just the ordinary out of the box bevel. A Back bevel also results in staying sharper longer, iirc.

[Lord of Oop North]

Yup. Japanese knives are typically ground in the same way as chisels. It should come as no surprise that Japanese woodworking chisels are also world renown. Their blades consist solely of a long tapered edge. It truly is exceptionally sharp, but a single-beveled edge will be sharper - albeit less durable, because of the amount of material that has been removed from the blade.

Most Western blades have double bevels. Meaning, they start at a shallow angled-bevel and move into a sharper angled-bevel. This is what makes them more durable. And consequently, less sharp.

It's also the reason why chisel-edged blades need to be sharpened far, far more often. And likely why Japanese sushi chefs (and Woodworkers, as well) all know how to sharpen their own blades - economics.

[MercenaryChef]

it's worth pointing out that Kramer's non damascus knives are carbon steel and will discolor if you actually, you know, use it. Additionally Carbon Steel is really the sort of knife that should be used by people who LOVE to sharpen their knives themselves as a carbon Steel knife can take a much sharper edge but it is also quite a bit softer as steel so it needs to be sharpened far more often. Japanese Sushi knives and knives used by Japanese chefs tend to be carbon steel because they sharpen their own knives. Sushi knives are only beveled on one side which means they can become even sharper than regular carbon steel knives. and the bevel can be centimeters wide (rather than the milimeter or so on most knives) but those knives are generally individuals themselves, totally unique and the chef probably sharpens it himself in his own unique way (difference in bevel size means difference in angle adn so on).

Even low grade good knives like Henckles and Wusthof can be brought to a rather exceptional sharpness by sharpening them with a back bevel rather than just the ordinary out of the box bevel. A Back bevel also results in staying sharper longer, iirc.

i am an owner and user of carbon steel knives as well. they do not require frequent sharpening at all. and i am certain i use my knives a lot more than anyone else on the board. the beauty of carbon is that it is soft and comes back to a sharp edge easily. so, as i described the minute teeth that actually make up the blade that get pushed over when you use the knife, frequent honing fixes that right up. so my carbon blades become very very sharp again easily. and like the rest of my knives they see a sharpening no more than four times a year.

yes, the back bevel vs the factory bevel is far superior. but, even with it a german knife will never attain or hold the sharpness that a japanese knife will. i am not a hater of the old school european knives, but 15 years cooking at a high level and experiencing and experimenting with many many different styles, brands and price points of knives makes me feel i know what i speak of.

[Waldo Frey]

You should also peruse this book which has a lot of terrific advice and explains how to make a good knife decision in a really accessible way that is not pimping any specific brand but rather elucidating the qualities of a knife you should evaluate when you're looking for what fits/works for you.

I have just checked out this book from library. Facinating read. So far I learn:

1. Buy a few knives rather than a box set.

2. A forged knife is not necessary better than a stemped knife. Likewise, a heavy knife is no better than a light weighted knife in your hand.

3. Your knife doesn't need to be full tang.

4. Bolster is no longer the trademark of a quality knife.

[shadowbinding shoe]

I haven't read this whole thread but it's obvious you are all knife-aficionados compared to me.

I only have various small eating cutting knives (with plastic handle and serrated edges) and buttering knives (a one piece metal knife with not very sharp serrating edge but a wide one) all of stainless steel and one big bread knife. They get cleaned in the dishwasher like all their friends

They work pretty OK. They do tend to lose sharpness over time and sometime they start rusting if something is not added to the dishwasher. But who cares, they cost pennies and are good for a couple of years.

Though I do have some issues with them that maybe you could help me with:

1) I want to cut those garlic teeth to tiny little pieces pretty often but cutting them up with a cutting knife takes ridiculous amounts of time (= a couple of minutes! ) and leave my hands irritated with garlic juice. What's the solution?

2) Bread knife sometimes tears extra uneven pieces from the bread. They're not always custom-made for the bread knife unfortunately. Is this inevitable?

[Minaku]

I haven't read this whole thread but it's obvious you are all knife-aficionados compared to me.

I only have various small eating cutting knives (with plastic handle and serrated edges) and buttering knives (a one piece metal knife with not very sharp serrating edge but a wide one) all of stainless steel and one big bread knife. They get cleaned in the dishwasher like all their friends

They work pretty OK. They do tend to lose sharpness over time and sometime they start rusting if something is not added to the dishwasher. But who cares, they cost pennies and are good for a couple of years.

Though I do have some issues with them that maybe you could help me with:

1) I want to cut those garlic teeth to tiny little pieces pretty often but cutting them up with a cutting knife takes ridiculous amounts of time (= a couple of minutes! ) and leave my hands irritated with garlic juice. What's the solution?

2) Bread knife sometimes tears extra uneven pieces from the bread. They're not always custom-made for the bread knife unfortunately. Is this inevitable?

Your answer is that you need new knives that don't suck. But who cares?

Mincing garlic is very easy provided you have the technique and a sharp knife, both of which you lack. If you get a better knife at least one of those problems will be alleviated somewhat.

As Chef mentioned before a serrated knife edge tears and destroys what it's cutting, which is why you do not take serrated knives to, say, cheese. But I'd probably blame your technique just as much as your tool.

My husband uses my Global and it's like a trainwreck every time.

[Tears of Lys]

1) I want to cut those garlic teeth to tiny little pieces pretty often but cutting them up with a cutting knife takes ridiculous amounts of time (= a couple of minutes! ) and leave my hands irritated with garlic juice. What's the solution?

I've found what I think is the perfect solution for garlic (if you dont' mind garlic paste, that is!) I put the clove, or however much you have, in between two pieces of wax paper or plastic wrap, take a mallet (or the non-metal side of a meat pounder/tenderizer) and pound teh shit out of it. Viola!

Scrape it up and add to whatever you're cooking. :)

[MercenaryChef]

forget mincing garlic.

i gave it up years ago. a better and easier way is to use amicroplane. this handy little device also zests citrus, grates cheese and ginger. it is a must in any kitchen and it is cheap! buy it.

on the kramer knives, i have been lucky enough to demo a kramer knife some years ago. it had nice heft, a wonderful handle, and was one of the sharpest things i have ever used. holding it only by the back of the blade i was instructed to just lower it down onto a ripe tomato. the tomato offered no resistance and almost magically fell in half. they are amazing knives. and bob is a wonderful craftsman of immense skill. however, i would have to say it is something i see totally wasted upon home cooks. in the hands of a home cook it is nothing more than a status symbol. mind you his knives cost $350 per inch. no home cook and few professional chefs have any cause to own something so expensive. i would love to have one of his knives, but my own frugality would hinder such a purchase. a knife like that i would be terrified to have at work, fearful that some asshole would touch it or look at it. and leaving it at home would be wasting its potential.

[Bronn Stone]

It would be a crime to have a Stradivarius sit on a shelf. A supreme instrument cries out for a maestro. A Ferrari should not be tooled down the Vegas strip by an orthodontist with hair plugs picking up strippers and still having to pay 1.5 the normal rate.

[kiko]

But I'd probably blame your technique just as much as your tool.

Never say that to a guy. Especially not in a thread about cutting tools

[MercenaryChef]

It would be a crime to have a Stradivarius sit on a shelf. A supreme instrument cries out for a maestro. A Ferrari should not be tooled down the Vegas strip by an orthodontist with hair plugs picking up strippers and still having to pay 1.5 the normal rate.

you have put it perfectly, sir.

[MercenaryChef]

Seriously, though, out of all the people on Mr. Kramer's order list, how many of them do you think are accountants and orthodontists (etc - home cooks, non-chefs)?

Probably 90% of them :)

It's because everybody cooks. But some people like kitchen status symbols.

It's like the Viking range that's ended up in nearly every home in America, or the Subzero fridge.

real chefs and cooks can scarcely afford to purchase one of bob's knives. we work for relatively little pay for what we do considering the hours, the strenuous work and the skill needed. i am glad that status-driven yuppie consumers are around to give him an outlet for his fantastic tools. if not for these people he likely would not be able to be so successful. but, just because they can afford it does not mean they can use it, or in my mind even deserve it.

the subzero fridge and the viking six burner range in every home is a good thing though. it ups the value of the home itself. it is an investment in the worth of the home. now, if they intended to leave the kramer knife when they sold the house that would be an entirely different thing all together. that is a house i would be interested in pursuing.

[The Dude]

I've found what I think is the perfect solution for garlic (if you dont' mind garlic paste, that is!) I put the clove, or however much you have, in between two pieces of wax paper or plastic wrap, take a mallet (or the non-metal side of a meat pounder/tenderizer) and pound teh shit out of it. Viola!

Scrape it up and add to whatever you're cooking. :)

Wouldn't a garlic press work a little better and be less messy?

[Lord of Oop North]

Ah, the Viking range. I recall doing a renovation in a client's house a few years ago, and making a compliment about her beautiful Viking range and oven. Her reply? "Oh, that thing? I don't even cook. We get takeout or go to a restaurant every day."

Sigh. I believe that I shed a single tear - crying indian style. If she had a Kramer Knife, as well, I just may have stabbed her with it.

[Tears of Lys]

Wouldn't a garlic press work a little better and be less messy?

Not really. You've got to wash a garlic press, whereas with the mallet and waxed paper, it's much easier. It's quick and clean.

Again, though, if you want little, itty-bitty dice, go for the garlic press by all means. I use that occasionally too.

[TerraPrime]

I have been using the same set of Target steak knives for chopping vegetables all my adult life. I'm interested in upgrading but I can't see spending more that $40 and since I know nothing I'm afraid I'll spend my money and still have a crappy knife. Maybe I'll but a new set of Target steak knives. :)

The cure of price-phobia on knives is this:

Go find a friend who has a decent quality knife, and go over there to help them prepare a meal. Try out that knife. If you are not convinced that this knife is worth an investment of $80+, then you're better off just buying regular knives. But if you cook quite a bit yourself, you will appreciate the ease of the job when you have the right job.

I typically have the reverse experience when I go to in-laws for holidays. I always volunteer for kitchen duties, but alas, none of my in-laws keep decent knives. I cringe every time I tried to prep stuff in their kitchens. I don't feel that I'm cutting food. I feel that I'm hacking at them into bits.

For my level of cooking, I find the Henckel santoku that I bought (about $120 iirc) to be more than adequate. Though, I wish I had known about the recommendation about the Japanese knife at the time. Oh well. I actually have two, one which is carbon steel which is lighter and thinner, and a regular one. I much prefer the heavier blade, though my mom prefers the lighter one.

[Waldo Frey]

I just stumble upon this set of knives. What makes me drooling is the ceramic sharpener.