[Book Spoilers] EP108 Discussion

[The Human Abstract]

Am I the only one who thought Robb's guard's line was pretty weird?

"He looked to be counting"

How the hell do you look like you're counting?

Usually I stare, move my lips, and wiggle my index finger in the air.

[Rockroi]

It's not "foolishness," it's a legitimate part of the story. She goes to the queen because she's sad about leaving her precious prince and ruins any chance Ned had for getting his household out alive. Ned himself did a lot to put that chance in jeopardy, but all for good reasons. Sansa is just throwing a hissy fit about losing her "valiant" prince.

I noted very few facial expressions, a complaint shared by many here.

Emo? I see Jon with the corpses, not much there, Jon attacking a man, not "emo," Jon killing a wight, pretty cool, and Jon at the burning of the wights. Please, do tell, what is so "emo"?

1. My point stands re: Sansa's abbreviated roll in the series vs. her needlessly complicated role in the books. In the books, readers have taken one line by Cersei to try to shoe-horn (as you have) this incredible tale that had Sansa not gone to Cersei than Ned, somehow, would not have been captured. This is preposterous. Leaving out, for the moment, the idea that Sansa being 12 years is not apt to think about the death and destruction of her house, but in what she wants 9as all women that age are usually want to do), the reason Ned's plan failed was because of one person: Ned. I enjoyed that this was kept out of the show for the EXACT reason its ballast in the books: all it does is confuse the point.

2. Very few facial expressions? I just want to say here that this is yet another in a long line of Sansa criticisms that just I am at a loss to explain. What next? People are upset that Sansa mnakes too many/too few costume changes? Because the VAST majority of the characters in the show show just a few carefully underscored facial expressions (Ned: judgmental amusement, disgust, confusion; Robert: sadness, rage, amusement; Jaime: contempt, ambivalence, anger; Tyrion: humor, arrogance, sorrow). For Sansa hers are usually confusion, timidness and flashes of panic. I actually think the actress is doing a fine job when you consider how unpopular Sansa has become on these boards (for reasons that range from "misunderstanding" to sheer petulance).

3. Nah, its emo. His scene with Allistar Thorne is terrible in the books; does not improve in the show. Nobody's fault: that's how Jon is written. And this is all culminating in Jon abandoning the Wall LITERALLY after like 6 weeks of service. I also almost LAUGHED OUT LOUD with the Ghost scene. With Ghost clawing at the door, I kinda was hoping Jon Snow would be a bit impatient with his animal, but instead he IMMEDIATELY senses Ghost's trepidation. *sigh*. Might as well have had Jon have said, "What is it, Girl? Is Lord Mormont trapped down the abandoned well with Timmy?"

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay, and now for "Rockroi's Most Nit-picking Thing That Annoys Only a Mega Nerd Like Myself."

In the scene where Cat returns to see Robb she is greated by the Lords of the North. In the scene, Greatjon scurries everyone out of the tent and then assures Cat that the army will soon march on KL and "free Ned."

Okay...

Who the FUCK is Ned? Why are you calling him Ned? Does Eddard Stark strike you as a guy who lets his bannermen call him "Ned?" Seriously? Asshole, his name is "Lord Eddard" or "Lord Stark." You don't call the guy "Ned" to anyone, INCLUDING his Lady wife!!! Again, sloppy writing, sloppy acting.

But, let me balance this with "Rockroi's Coolest Thing That He Should Have Mentioned Earlier."

I LOVED that we see all the ravens leave Winterfell in a rush of punctuated black. I liked the symbolism and the weightiness of the scene: we could see just how important this was, how many men it would include, and how ominous this all was. A great little detail.

[starki]

Is it true that girls think Jon is better looking than Robb? It seems that way from this board. I'm a straight male, but I think Robb is much better looking.

This girl does !

[End of Disc One]

To those who think Sansa doesn't change facial expresions, watch the first episode again. Her expressions are masterful.

[starki]

Syrio situation left wide open..........

Is it ? The last of the King's guard sliced his wooden sword in two. And he isn't wearing full body armour.

He is dead, just as the book.

[Alexia]

I really liked this episode. I teared up when Septa Mordane faced those knights down. I guess we'll all get to see her hair next episode. :crying:

I liked seeing the Hound, and Sansa and the Hound interact, but it was too brief. I really liked Sansa in general this episode - I mused over how I felt about the cut of when she went to Cersei. At first I didn't care for it too much because I felt like that utter betrayal of her naive trust was an important starting point for the character, but after thinking about it I agree with those who say that she is too old now to make that sort of mistake and that she has already been portrayed too unsympathetically. I did think it was hilarious when her scene started and she was shrieking at Septa Mordane about how clumsy Arya is, coming back from her dancing lessons covered in bruises.

"I'll be a good queen like you, I won't hatch anything!" :lmao:

My favorite part of this episode was the first part, with the destruction of the Stark household. Despite a few minor quibbles, it was wonderful.

I also liked the scene when Tyrion and his pack of savages go meet up with Lord Tywin, and Robb's storyline marching south (BTW: Team Robb here). Ned staring down his nose at Varys about how Varys watched his men die and did nothing, "and I would again my lord."

Jeyne and Arya do show selfishness, but she grimly assumes Arya is dead, and doesn't see Jeyne as her responsibility. She's a 12-year-old girl fearing for her own life and trying to save that of her father and siblings: I don't think it's so unforgivable to be overwhelmed by that.

Quick correction: in her first chapter of ACOK, we learn that she believes that Arya escaped and is back in Winterfell, and she desperately misses Septa Mordane and Jeyne Poole, trying not to think of them because she cries when she does.

Her irritation with Jeyne in that final interaction during AGOT is selfishness to a certain extent, but primarily stems from her lack of understanding of what is going on. I won't address the utter ridiculousness of blasting her for deciding to change escape routes, especially given that Dontos sold her out!

[The King's Foot]

Fantastic episode, loved it. Best part: no Roz!! Since it was written by GRRM, this makes sense. I can almost picture the scene after George turned in the script to the producers:

D&D: Thanks for getting that script done!

GRRM: Your welcome! Hope you liked it.

D&D: LOVED it. Only quibble is we need you to use Roz more in the KL scenes.

GRRM: Who? Wait - the whore from Winterfell? What the eff is she doing in KL?

D&D: OH! Funny thing happened. See...

GRRM: /facepalm

[aimlessgun]

Who the FUCK is Ned? Why are you calling him Ned? Does Eddard Stark strike you as a guy who lets his bannermen call him "Ned?" Seriously? Asshole, his name is "Lord Eddard" or "Lord Stark." You don't call the guy "Ned" to anyone, INCLUDING his Lady wife!!! Again, sloppy writing, sloppy.

This is amusing because I've seen non-readers express appreciation for this bit, saying that it strikes them as entirely appropriate and cool that Ned's Bannermen refer to him on such a personal basis.

[Jaime Lannister]

The whiny bitch side of the fan base never ceases to amaze me.

[End of Disc One]

This is amusing because I've seen non-readers express appreciation for this bit, saying that it strikes them as entirely appropriate and cool that Ned's Bannermen refer to him on such a personal basis.

I always thought it was odd when Viserys called him Ned Stark, as if he knew him. I don't really care though.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Fantastic episode, loved it. Best part: no Roz!! Since it was written by GRRM, this makes sense. I can almost picture the scene after George turned in the script to the producers:

D&D: Thanks for getting that script done!

GRRM: Your welcome! Hope you liked it.

D&D: LOVED it. Only quibble is we need you to use Roz more in the KL scenes.

GRRM: Who? Wait - the whore from Winterfell? What the eff is she doing in KL?

D&D: OH! Funny thing happened. See...

GRRM: /facepalm

:lol:

[alguien]

Tell Lord Tywin winter is coming for him. Twenty thousand northerners marching south to find out if he really does shit gold.

Even though I've read the books, that new line of dialog sent chills down my spine. Fucking awesome.

Excellent episode.

Sort of surprised to see that Tywin was taller than Shagga, but I enjoyed the actor's perfomance nonetheless.

I did miss Tyrion's telling the story of Tysha, but I'm assuming that it will be put in somewhere down the line. (at least I hope so)

Many, this whole series so far is like a dream come true, for the most part.

[laughing tree knight]

Syrio likely isn't trained in the use of a longsword; he's a master, but an extreme specialist, and perhaps felt that he had a better chance with the wooden training sword.

that's ridiculous. first he demonstrates the hacking of the westeros way to Arya earlier in the book and season. second while this is exactly as it happened in the book. it is strange that he doesn't pick up a sword if he doesn't want to die. especially given the representation on the show. he actually after fighting the dancing style against the lannisters he seems to switch to the westeros two handed style when facing Meryn Trant.

why did he do that?

[The King's Foot]

after fighting the dancing style against the lannisters he seems to switch to the westeros two handed style when facing Meryn Trant.

why did he do that?

Maybe, like Obi-Wan, he's trying to sacrifice himself and become more powerful than Trant can possibly imagine. I get a mental image of Trant kicking through an empty pile of Braavosi clothes while Arya fires some wild blaster shots and runs into the belly of the Milennium Falcon...

[Lord Godric]

Let me just ditto The Hairy Bear. George lets readers decide what they want about how they feel regarding characters... but he has very explicitly said he's a bit annoyed by readings of the characters which claim they're whiny or that you're supposed to dislike them. No, you can dislike them if you want, but he never wrote either of them with the intention of driving people into disliking them.

Let me clarify what I meant by "supposed to dislike Sansa." It is clear that Sansa is set up to be Arya's foil, they are exact opposites in nearly every way. And Arya is presented as very likeable and very relate-able, IMO. So Sansa starts off, naturally, as the opposite. Throughout GoT (the book) she is painted as fairly unsympathetic, naive and frustrating. After Joffrey kills Ned things drastically change and she becomes a different character.

It is the same way I see Jaime. We are not supposed to like Jaime when the series starts, that is the point of him pushing an innocent child out of the window. But he slowly becomes more sympathetic and likeable. That is how I also see Sansa.

[Bahimiron]

The Jon vs Thorne scene was a little bit of a let down if only because he doesn't actually do much to Thorne. At least in the book he runs down the table and kicks his stew out of his hand. Here all he does is get within five feet of him with a knife. You'd think that 'almost stabbings' would be kind of common the Wall, considering the tension of the setting and the sorts of people who go there. Seems like the kind of crime that comes with a sharp slap on the wrist and a 'hey, maybe you shouldn't stab people' admonishment.

I LOVED that we see all the ravens leave Winterfell in a rush of punctuated black. I liked the symbolism and the weightiness of the scene: we could see just how important this was, how many men it would include, and how ominous this all was. A great little detail.

I loved the notion that rather than writing the notes and sending them out as they're finished, Maester Luwin is keeping the ravens all cooped up until he's done so he can let them out in one go. He's probably thinking to himself, "Oh man, this shit is gonna be so metal. People are gonna be wandering by and see the castle and be all 'dang, that looks like an album cover!'"

[Derfel Cadarn]

Favourite episode. Awesomeness after awesomeness. I loved how Drogo casually threw the tongue onto his pile of body parts. Glad they kept Kevan in. Khal Drogo owns! If the actor does as good a job as Conan in the film out later this year, it could own.

I lol'd at Bron's "..You wouldn't know him". I liked how they had Tywin's piercing stare in. And the look he gave Tyrion when Shagga said Tyrion had to fight with them, and Tyrion's chagrin. Hope th next episode has Shagga and his three axes. Shagga likes to fight with both hands. Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are better than two.

Robb was very good too. I liked the Greatjon, played by the actor who played Littlejohn in Robin of Sherwood.

Glad they kept in Thorne goading Jon. I suspect they'll miss out the scene where Jon briefly deserts.

[Derfel Cadarn]

He came south with Catelyn, but he stayed at the Eyrie (he was wounded in the hill tribe fight or something like that), and I think he took a boat back to the North.

He's probably sent back to help Bran and the Maester.

[Starkess]

Robb >>>>>> Jon.

It is known.

:drool: Redheads...

[Xenophon]

Okay, and now for "Rockroi's Most Nit-picking Thing That Annoys Only a Mega Nerd Like Myself."

In the scene where Cat returns to see Robb she is greated by the Lords of the North. In the scene, Greatjon scurries everyone out of the tent and then assures Cat that the army will soon march on KL and "free Ned."

Okay...

Who the FUCK is Ned? Why are you calling him Ned? Does Eddard Stark strike you as a guy who lets his bannermen call him "Ned?" Seriously? Asshole, his name is "Lord Eddard" or "Lord Stark." You don't call the guy "Ned" to anyone, INCLUDING his Lady wife!!! Again, sloppy writing, sloppy acting.

Well, you'll have to take that up with GRRM two times over. It's straight out of the book:

“Have no fear on that count, Lady Stark,” the Greatjon told her in his bass rumble. “Winterfell is safe. We’ll shove our swords up Tywin Lannister’s bunghole soon enough, begging your pardons, and then it’s on to the Red Keep to free Ned.”