Once Upon a Time (It's very own thread)

[Warg Arry]

Just doing a re-watch. Something that is getting to me more this time around than when I first watched it. Is the Regina and Henry relationship.

It's mentioned that Regina adopted Henry when he was 3 weeks old. So she has been his sole carer and provider for 10 years.

Yet he is always treating her disrespectfully. You see moments where she is trying to be fun and connect with him. And his response is to snap at her or start something. Henry complains that living with her is awful. That Emma just doesn't understand how bad it is for him there.

But you don't really see that.

Yes she is conniving and manipulative. She does leave him alone a lot for work (and the occasional booty call.) It seems like even then she has a bit of handle on where he is and what he is up to. (Having people that answer to you, helps I guess. Plus knowing he will almost always search out Emma to hang with.) But with Henry she is always showing concern for him. For his education, his health, that he has what he needs.

How is it so bad for him. Sure she might be a hard ass. But you don't ever see her raise her hand or even her voice to him really. He is never with out food, money, treats, a bed, clothes etc.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is. This re-watch I feel a little sorry for Regina. I don't think she totally deserves how Henry treats her (in regards to the mother - son dynamic). And Henry is coming off as a little demanding shit. I mean he doesn't even listen to Emma. But he is always after affection from Emma (Not saying that's a bad thing) and constantly pushing Regina away. Yet Regina is the only mother he has ever known.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Warg Arry,

Given that Henry is Emma, Snow, and Charmings blood decendant and the "Dark Curse" is targeted at them perhaps Henry, by some remnant of magic feels Regina is the source of all that. I agree that Regina loves Henry but based upon what happens to Regina's father in her quest for revenge I don't know how much that love is really worth.

[Lady Octarina]

Just doing a re-watch. Something that is getting to me more this time around than when I first watched it. Is the Regina and Henry relationship.

It's mentioned that Regina adopted Henry when he was 3 weeks old. So she has been his sole carer and provider for 10 years.

Yet he is always treating her disrespectfully. You see moments where she is trying to be fun and connect with him. And his response is to snap at her or start something. Henry complains that living with her is awful. That Emma just doesn't understand how bad it is for him there.

But you don't really see that.

Yes she is conniving and manipulative. She does leave him alone a lot for work (and the occasional booty call.) It seems like even then she has a bit of handle on where he is and what he is up to. (Having people that answer to you, helps I guess. Plus knowing he will almost always search out Emma to hang with.) But with Henry she is always showing concern for him. For his education, his health, that he has what he needs.

How is it so bad for him. Sure she might be a hard ass. But you don't ever see her raise her hand or even her voice to him really. He is never with out food, money, treats, a bed, clothes etc.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is. This re-watch I feel a little sorry for Regina. I don't think she totally deserves how Henry treats her (in regards to the mother - son dynamic). And Henry is coming off as a little demanding shit. I mean he doesn't even listen to Emma. But he is always after affection from Emma (Not saying that's a bad thing) and constantly pushing Regina away. Yet Regina is the only mother he has ever known.

THIS.

This is one of the things that bothered me about OUAT from the start. Regina never shows anything but love and concern for him, and yet he's always rejecting her, apparently just because she's the Evil Queen. It just seems too much and paints him like a brat. Who knows, maybe they'll develop this a bit more next season, but I really feel bad for her; I mean, from what we know Henry is the only person she ever loved that she didn't just manipulate and hurt on purpose (him, and maybe the stableboy, but that one was before her transformation into what she is now, so that doesn't count).

[Bronson]

THIS.

This is one of the things that bothered me about OUAT from the start. Regina never shows anything but love and concern for him, and yet he's always rejecting her, apparently just because she's the Evil Queen. It just seems too much and paints him like a brat. Who knows, maybe they'll develop this a bit more next season, but I really feel bad for her; I mean, from what we know Henry is the only person she ever loved that she didn't just manipulate and hurt on purpose (him, and maybe the stableboy, but that one was before her transformation into what she is now, so that doesn't count).

There are times when I wish she could turn the corner and find redemption. As bad as she is , she is a remarkable character

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Lady Octirina,

She riped her father's heart out to enact the curse. It only worked because she loved her father. Even if she really loves Henry he's smart to go with his gut and try to get away from Regina. She is a sociopath.

[Warg Arry]

Ser Scot

Not to mention the fact that she named her adopted son after her father. It has a certain Omen-ish creep quality.

I don't disagree with you. Sure I can buy that being the descendant of the curse's focus could very well be a factor. Also taking into consideration that we only come into the story after Mary Margaret gives Henry the book (Well specifically When Emma arrives in Storybrooke. But the small back story in the town. We get goes from Henry receiving the book). Perhaps that may have awoken something in Henry that may have broken down what bond Regina and Henry might have shared.

Given that time and again Regina will choose what she wants over love and relationships. And since Henry has a written record of her actions as the Queen. It could also be a factor.

But his withdrawal and overall insolence at Regina's every attempt to be a parent to him just doesn't ring completely true. He doesn't seem to behave in a way that shows he may be afraid of her or even cautious. He behaves as if he has no feeling for Regina at all. Which to me is strange when for 10 years Regina is the only mother he has ever known. The only family he's ever had. There would have to be something there. She has never harmed him. The only harm that he has really witnessed comes from a book of fairy tales. And not from his own reality. He claims that it's horrible to be with her. But the audience never gets to see that. Henry says he believes that the book is true. But when he is faced with proof. He acts surprised and relieved. So it comes off as him not really having any special inside knowledge or visions. It's just his feeling on the matter.

Is that really the only reason he has to act the way his does. So utterly to the exclusion of the woman who raised him. Wanted him. Loves him. Invested 10 years into him. Against what we perceive as her nature to destroy the things she loves.

I know that emotional detachment from Regina is probably a fair survival strategy. But it won't stop Regina from using him if she has to.

At the beginning of the season she went to Mr Gold and asked him where he got Henry from. So she wasn't aware of his value. She didn't recognise Emma's place in the scheme of things. But now she must be well aware.

So in this next season (which starts tomorrow?) If she does Need to end Henry for her own means. It won't be a hard hitting moment like it could have been. If we had seen Henry giving even half a damn about his adopted mother. It will be a one sided emotional play and kind of empty.

I guess we'll see what happens. There are still some aspects of the story that weren't covered. That might fill in the blanks we have before Emma hit town.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Warg Arry,

Actually, another good question is how did Henry even know he was adopted? If Regina didn't want him to know couldn't she have simply told him she was his birth mother and avoided this whole problem from the start?

[Warg Arry]

That was something I was wondering too. It seems out of character for Regina to tell Henry that she isn't his birth mother.

Unless I suppose that the adoption was common knowledge in the town. Being a small town. People talk. example; the shunning of Mary Margaret. Even then it doesn't seem to be outside Regina's scope of expertise to arrange that everyone recall her being pregnant and giving birth to a son. (She offers to wake Grace up for Jefferson. So she must still have some ability to control the memories of the towns people.)

Regina seems the type to want it all. To control it all. Yet she never denies that she adopted Henry... Poor writing? Or something that's yet to be filled in?

What was Henry's incentive to seek Emma out? It sort of ties into - In what way was his life so bad.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I suspect things were more normal up until Henry got the book. He believed in its reality and probably quickly decided Regina was the "Evil Queen" and their relationship declined from that point forward.

That said I also suspect there's a magical aspect to this too. That none of the curses direct targets could subconiously completely forget who they were. That probably translated to Emma and by extension to Henry.

[Howdyphillip]

I actually think that Regina is a much more complicated character than just "The Evil Queen." I actually think that the writers have intentionally blurred the lines between the good guys and bad guys in this world to show the stark dynamic between here and the fantasy land. I think we as audience members are suppose to be conflicted in our views of this character.

The same goes for the "good" characters like Snow White. Here in the real world, she makes selfish decisions that lead to breaking apart a couple.

So far, we are still firmly on the side of the "good" guys, and firmly against the "bad" guys, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the writers switched things up a bit.

I also wanted to remark that short of murder, I usually wind up in relationships with women like Regina. She is incredibly strong willed, driven, and able to demand respect from people around her. She is also callous and selfish. That is a perfect summation of my relationships. I tend to be drawn to women like that. It is fitting that she is my current largest TV crush.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

HP,

She ripped her father's still beating heart out of his chest to enact the Dark Curse. It only worked because she loved him when she did it. There's no redemption from that.

I'm 90% sure I know what Gold's favor from Emma will be.

[Corvinus85]

Well that was an interesting twist to the episode.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Could they have more commercials?

[Howdyphillip]

Could they have more commercials?

DVR is my best friend now a days...

I wanted to respond by saying that she killed her father in the fairy land. In that realm, so far everything has been black and white, or good and evil. In this world, the characters all have shades of grey as evidenced tonight by Charming's wish to let Regina die, and Regina's inability to kill him for love of her son. They are even bringing the shades of grey to Gold with the addition of Bella.

As to my general impression of this episode, about half way through, I literally felt a warm and comfortable feeling hit me. I felt like someone was telling me a bed time story. There is a logical understanding the show is so far outside the realm of plausibility that in order for me to truly enjoy it, I had to look on it with a child like naivety. The beautiful thing about this, is that the makers of this show are successful in doing this. I am now looking at my Sunday night's as a gift.

The other tidbit, is that in all of the talk of Regina in this thread, I forgot what an inspired casting choice Robert Carlyle is.

[drawkcabi]

As to my general impression of this episode, about half way through, I literally felt a warm and comfortable feeling hit me. I felt like someone was telling me a bed time story. There is a logical understanding the show is so far outside the realm of plausibility that in order for me to truly enjoy it, I had to look on it with a child like naivety. The beautiful thing about this, is that the makers of this show are successful in doing this. I am now looking at my Sunday night's as a gift.

The other tidbit, is that in all of the talk of Regina in this thread, I forgot what an inspired casting choice Robert Carlyle is.

That's a pretty good description of how the show makes me feel. It's all the characters of an enchanted world I loved as a child coming forth to entertain me again, making feel that way again, but with a stroytelling power that keeps me interested as an adult.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Robert Carlyle is an amazing actor.

[Warg Arry]

Robert Carlyle is my favourite part of the show.

So does anyone want to speculate about the person at the begining. Or is it a given?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The actor is the guy who played Rene the serial killer in the first season of "True Blood". I wonder if he's someone related to Dr. Whale's story? Why will Dr. Whale not tell everyone who he is and why don't they recongize him now that the curse is broken?

[Warg Arry]

I was thinking while watch the first season that some people in Storybrooke might have been trapped there in human form.

Dr Whale - at first I toyed with the idea that he is the whale from the Pinocchio story.

But now I (for no real reason) Want him to be the Great White Whale of Moby Dick. :D Although Why would he be a Dr.

I know this won't be an original idea. But what if Henry is Baelfire's son. Also I'm going with popular opinion and betting that was Baelfire at the beginning of the episode.

did you know there is a fair few people shipping Aurora and Mulan.. That would be a divergence from regular fairytales. lol

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I just noticed Regina didn't get her magic back until Emma touched her shoulder. Is Emma some sort of wellspring? As to Baelfire, if time passes at the same rate in the real world and the Fairy world then shouldn't Bael be much older?