NFL: Tebowmania's Migration

[Howdyphillip]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh !!!!! Big football players that are armored like gladiators try and hurt each other when they run as fast as they can and launch themselves at people !!!!!! How shocking.

[Quijote Light]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh !!!!! Big football players that are armored like gladiators try and hurt each other when they run as fast as they can and launch themselves at people !!!!!! How shocking.

You're an idiot dude. There's a difference between a player hitting as hard as he can and a coach making specific mention of injuries. Most of what Williams said is fine, but when he specifically calls attention to another player's history of concussions and another player's ACL he's gone too far. Maybe you should come up with some new schtick. This shit is getting tired.

[Howdyphillip]

You're an idiot dude. There's a difference between a player hitting as hard as he can and a coach making specific mention of injuries. Most of what Williams said is fine, but when he specifically calls attention to another player's history of concussions and another player's ACL he's gone too far. Maybe you should come up with some new schtick. This shit is getting tired.

First of all, you don't know me at all... Only my good friends can call me an idiot because they are the only ones to know for sure...

Secondly, I actually watched the games in question no matter what the bravado, what I saw was a game of football being played. Tough talk by a coach is part of the scene... dude... You probably haven't played the game, so you know nothing about this.

Finally... You are perfectly entitled to your opinion that the whole world has fallen down, and that the Saints stand alone in their wicked, evil ways. I will do my best just to leave you to your ideals without mocking you too much. I have my own ideas on this, and I am at perfect liberty to say that the punishment for this steps out of line.

[TheBigTEA]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh !!!!! Big football players that are armored like gladiators try and hurt each other when they run as fast as they can and launch themselves at people !!!!!! How shocking.

Normally the play hard, hit hard football mentality is good for the sport. This hit them in the head, and then hit him in the head some more and then hit him in the head while you are in the pile shit has no place in football or any sport. There is a big big difference from trying to legally hit a guy as hard as you can and trying to injure him.

Do football players have a lot of protection on? Sure, but there is nothing to stop a guy from having his knee bent the wrong way..or his ankle or his elbow etc etc. To pretend this is all OK is seriously messed up.

EDIT: what the hell is a warning point?

[DanteGabriel]

Secondly, I actually watched the games in question no matter what the bravado, what I saw was a game of football being played. Tough talk by a coach is part of the scene... dude... You probably haven't played the game, so you know nothing about this.

Finally... You are perfectly entitled to your opinion that the whole world has fallen down, and that the Saints stand alone in their wicked, evil ways. I will do my best just to leave you to your ideals without mocking you too much. I have my own ideas on this, and I am at perfect liberty to say that the punishment for this steps out of line.

A coach telling people to injure another player's ankle when they're in a pile is part of the game?

[Quijote Light]

First of all, you don't know me at all... Only my good friends can call me an idiot because they are the only ones to know for sure...

Secondly, I actually watched the games in question no matter what the bravado, what I saw was a game of football being played. Tough talk by a coach is part of the scene... dude... You probably haven't played the game, so you know nothing about this.

Finally... You are perfectly entitled to your opinion that the whole world has fallen down, and that the Saints stand alone in their wicked, evil ways. I will do my best just to leave you to your ideals without mocking you too much. I have my own ideas on this, and I am at perfect liberty to say that the punishment for this steps out of line.

First you tell me I don't know you and shouldn't make assumptions, then you make an assumption about me? Excellent work.

Like I said, Williams went too far in his speech. Consider the circumstances: they had been warned and did not act, then they were warned again and continued. This isn't about football being a violent sport. This is about the league making rules and an organization blatantly violating them. The fact that in so violating them they seemed to endorse injuring a player simply makes it worse. But go on believing its bullshit and waiving away any arguments as though they made no sense. I expect nothing less fr a Cowboys fan.

[awesome possum]

They were told they were under investigation just a few weeks before the game against the 49ers and still continued on.

You're championing a losing cause, HP.

[Howdyphillip]

Here is a pregame speech by a player

He talks about hitting a guy when he is down, and punching a guy in the nose and teeth... The team didn't actually do this just as the Saints didn't actually hit Alex Smith on the chin.

This is just tough talk... If someone had actually taken a cheap shot on another player, Sean Peyton and Greg Williams both would have benched them for harming their own team.

I do think the Michael Crabtree ACL talk crossed lines, but again no one in that locker room really believed that they were supposed to target people for cheap shots or else they would have done it. This is a pep talk people. It should not cost someone a job forever, and a head coach a job for an entire year.

They were told they were under investigation just a few weeks before the game against the 49ers and still continued on.

You're championing a losing cause, HP.

I can see that my point of view isn't going to be taken here, but I am by far the only person to hold on to these opinions. Darren Woodson spoke out today on ESPN saying very similar things, and tons of other coaches and players have as well.

[awesome possum]

It's not. Give it up.

[Young Wolf]

I can only say this from my experience...you have no idea what happens on the bottom of a pile of a fumble. It's fucking vicious.

[Lord O' Bones]

Darren Woodson spoke out today on ESPN saying very similar things, and tons of other coaches and players have as well.

Carlos Rogers as well, for what that's worth.

[Trebla]

As I said in my prior post, I find the sheer arrogance the most upsetting. They were warned to stop. They knew they were under investigation and they blatantly continued to do it.

I have no doubt this kind of thing happens in every lockerroom in one manner or another. But I believe most if not all of the other 31 teams would have ceased doing so if the league had threatened them with dire consequences. The Saints didn't stop and now they are royally screwed. And I'm very happy about that.

[DanteGabriel]

On free agency, Pats sign LB Bobby Carpenter, who was once a Dallas first round pick.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7779992/2012-nfl-free-agency-new-england-patriots-sign-former-dallas-cowboy-bobby-carpenter

Any insight into Carpenter from Cowboys or Lions fans? I remember hearing some not-great stuff about him.

[Jaime L]

As I said in my prior post, I find the sheer arrogance the most upsetting. They were warned to stop. They knew they were under investigation and they blatantly continued to do it.

I have no doubt this kind of thing happens in every lockerroom in one manner or another. But I believe most if not all of the other 31 teams would have ceased doing so if the league had threatened them with dire consequences. The Saints didn't stop and now they are royally screwed. And I'm very happy about that.

This. I don't think anyone is shocked that this goes on. I wasn't particularly outraged about Spygate either (in part because I don't think either conferred any kind of real advantage). But when you're this blatant about it, of course the commissioner has to come down extra hard to se the tone. Especially this commissioner, the one that's on record saying he's 100% committed to player safety which I think is bullshit (as I do with many things about Goodell) but from a PR standpoint it's stupid not to act.

Think for better or worse (probably worse) we've all become complacent regarding a lot of the ugliness that goes on behind the scenes, whether in terms of bounties or players ending up with longterm health issues or guys getting arrested or whatever. That stuff may not really affect us as fans - it's just how the NFL is. But even the most cynical of us get and probably agree with the notion that as a commissioner you can't just let shit like this go under some vague notion of "everyone does it" or "it's just part of the game". And that goes double in this case where the Saints were so blatant in how they went about it and so arrogant to go on camera while under investigation for it that even as someone who would, for obvious reasons, be inclined to sympathize with a team getting specifically targeted by dictator Goodell, I think they're for the most part deserving of the punishment they got.

[Sivin]

Here is a pregame speech by a player

He talks about hitting a guy when he is down, and punching a guy in the nose and teeth... The team didn't actually do this just as the Saints didn't actually hit Alex Smith on the chin.

This is just tough talk... If someone had actually taken a cheap shot on another player, Sean Peyton and Greg Williams both would have benched them for harming their own team.

I do think the Michael Crabtree ACL talk crossed lines, but again no one in that locker room really believed that they were supposed to target people for cheap shots or else they would have done it. This is a pep talk people. It should not cost someone a job forever, and a head coach a job for an entire year.

"Knock his fucking head off" "Cut him in half" "Put 'em in a bodybag".

Those are motivational statements for your players, and they should not be taken literally. When you start specifically paying players for these actions, the situation changes.

[Trebla]

On free agency, Pats sign LB Bobby Carpenter, who was once a Dallas first round pick.

http://espn.go.com/b...bobby-carpenter

Any insight into Carpenter from Cowboys or Lions fans? I remember hearing some not-great stuff about him.

His biggest knock is that for a linebacker he isn't very physical. That and his long blonde flowing hair earned him the nickname "Barbie" Carpenter. They switched him to ILB after he proved to have no pass rushing skills but proved servicable in coverage. His last year in Dallas he was their nickel linebacker and was decent. Playing for Detroit last season he had a pick six against his BFF Tony Romo that was extra salt in the wound in that horrendous choke job. He's probably best suited as a 4-3 weak side linebacker or the nickel backer.

[Sivin]

So the Bears just love Colts DB's. They've signed Kelvin I'mma-choke Hayden.

[awesome possum]

And CB Jonathan Wilhite from the Broncos. Another piece of depth to check off.

All but guarantees the Bears go DL or OL with the first pick.

edited to fix spelling of the dude's name

[Sivin]

Well, considering that they made Tim What's-Football? Jennings into a decent starter, Kelvin Hayden is probably gonna be the next Marlin Jackson.

By the way, how long before the Bears seek out Marlin Jackson?

[Rhom]

I'm a bit late to the discussion on the Saints-Niners bit from yesterday, but I think the best comment I saw about it came from Dan Graziano of ESPN on Twitter:

People -- esp those who played -- are saying the Gregg Williams audio isn't unusual. I think the point is, it needs to be.

I think this is what needs to be understood. With the NFL embroiled in the countless suits from former players, the game must undergo a culture shift. If they do not, they run the risk of having a culture shift imposed upon them not unlike when Teddy Roosevelt practically mandated the removal of the flying wedge from the game.