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How would you rate episode 202?

How would you rate episode 202?  

412 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      8
    • 2
      6
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      13
    • 5
      28
    • 6
      53
    • 7
      103
    • 8
      103
    • 9
      65
    • 10
      22


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I've never been buggered by the wigs.

I felt the 2nd episode flowed much more nicely than the first.

All the Tyrion scenes were brilliant.

Bronn as Commander of Gold Watch suits me just fine.

Cersei is amazing in her coldness.

Pyke was fantastic, as are the Iron Born.

Arya and Gendry play off each other well, Jaqen was okay, Rorge and Biter really disappointed me.

Stannis's scene surprised me, but it was hinted at in the books, and my gods Mel has me wanting to convert!

Davos is awesome yet he seems more highborn then he should.

Saan should have been a bit more colourful, so although he is from Lys is he an immigrant from the Summer Isles? I'll assume this for Xaro as well.

Daeny's scene was succinct.

I like Jon's ending, it is good to have read the books but to still be surprised.

Petyr/Ros... I suppose it serves to enlighten us into how much of a cunt he is. I wasn't impressed with Ros's acting though.

I'm happy to have voted an 8, I feel it was well deserved and the show will only get better from now on.

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Yara/Asha's look is what I expected of a strong female sea captain, nine years before the mast, commanding a tough crew and having killed men in close combat. It tends to mess up one's mascara and lipstick. bathing in salt water toughens your hide and frizzes your curls; and, beneath all that a body to arouse a long lost brother. It really doesn't say much for Theon, who would screw a snake if someone would hold it's head...or better yet, screw a pile of rocks if he thought a snake was hiding therein.

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I ranked the episode a 5. Here's my explanation from the Ep 202 discussion thread with a few additions:

1. Asha was irritating as a character in the books when she was first introduced, IMO, but I grew to like her as the series progressed. The actress cast as Asha did not display her fire or spirit.

2. Too bad it was sunny when the Pyke scenes were filmed. I always pictured Pyke as being perpetually overcast and, well, grey.

3. Ok, we know that Stannis and Mel eventually have sex of some sort in the books because of the shadow babies. The scene tonight was just weird, though, and not a good weird. The actor portraying Stannis and the writers/directors do nothing to set up the idea that Stannis is shown, initially, to be so brittle that he will break before he bends. We do not get a sense at all of his unyielding moral compass, which helps show us later his total hypocrisy in the situation with Melisandre.

4. First the silver and now Rakharo?! Wtf, writers/directors? I understand the rakharo actor was offered another role, but then the show could have done something different than make him a bizarre plot point.

5. Why is Sam suddenly a horn dog constantly thinking about and looking at women? Writers/directors, wtf?

6. Littlefinger has now been written to be creepy as shit without book littlefinger's intelligence. So instead of a great game player who is creepy, we get a dip shit who is creepy.

7. Loved Arya (Maisie Williams) and Gendry (Joe Dempsie). Close to the book scenes and great interaction between the two. Their scene was the highlight of the episode. Jaqen was excellent for the small time we saw him. Yoren (Francis Magee) was excellent last season and this season as well. Conleith Hill as Varys was amazing as always.

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You know just like last week watching 202 again, like 201, I liked it better.

The drama at Pyke looked better the 2nd time around.

The very short sequence with Arya and Jaqen H'ghar looked good the first time... now watching it again, notice Jaqen apologizing for Rorge and Biter... I think that in the book?

Then as Arya dusts it up with Rorge and Biter notice the way Tom smiles at her defiance. Nice touch.

Did anyone catch what Melisandre meant when she said she would give Stannis a son?, ... that she meant a 'son' ... non book readers will find out.

Edited by boojam

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I showed that to my good friend/hair girl because of how many people have told me I look like her, and she immediately said - "wow, look at that silver hair. weird."

This WIG thing keeps bugging some people, I don't see it, the wigs look perfect to me.

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This WIG thing keeps bugging some people, I don't see it, the wigs look perfect to me.

Yeah, it's definitely silver....I even got it "silver-approved" by someone that does hair colouring for a living! hah. All the wigs look fine. She wasn't even 100% positive that it was a wig (it was a small-ish picture on my phone), but was fairly confident that it was.

Edited by dannister

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A solid nine. This episode was great, and it fabulously managed to build on the foundation that the first episode built. The Greyjoy scenes, the Arya/Gendry scenes, the Davos scenes all were executed excellently.

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I am shocked at how many people are rating this thing 5 and below. To me, a 5 would be an average episode on American television. Something like a run of the mill episode of CSI Whatever the Fuck.

What we are watching in this series is television greatness. There is an absolute ceiling for me of a 7 just because of the set design and costuming. With the monumental acting that is being done by Peter Dinklidge and Lena Heady, I am raising it another point and putting this show at an 8 as an absolute minimum for the worst episode they can make.

This week, my final evaluation is at a 9. There was the smallest of disappointments in the casting and name change of Asha Greyjoy. She is one of my biggest book crushes, and they just didn't capture her sassyness for me. I am willing to withhold judgement, because there is something about the actress that just may grow on me.

Otherwise, this episode was one of my favorite ways to spend an hour in front of a television. I am sure that I will see this over and over again. (something I never do with other series.)

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I gave this episode a 6, I really liked some parts but I feel they are really changing the essence of the book with a lot of the changes. Although I loved how they made Pyke appear on the big screen the intitial meeting between Yara and Theon played nothing like the book and really I feel changed here character. In the book it was Asha who on several occasions grabbed Theons cock, moreover with the fake identity she gave him, he then opened up to her about his plans, his successes in battle with Robb etc. I know this may sound like nitpicking but it shows a certain cunning which the Asha character has, which I feel hurts the character portrayal.

Moreover the Janos Tyrion scene felt extremely rushed I really would have enjoyed if they used some more dailogue from the book in that scene but alas I guess time constraints.

In terms of Stannis I believe DornishSnakes post said it best. This character they created is not Stannis none of his backstory has been told thus far in the TV show so I don't know how anybody can understand my favorite character from the book. Not one mention of the siege on Storms End, no mention of him smashing the ironborn ships, his parents perishing on Shipbreaker Bay. I know we are only two episodes into the season but I have no emotional attachment to this Stannis whatsover.

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I ranked the episode a 5. Here's my explanation from the Ep 202 discussion thread with a few additions:

1. Asha was irritating as a character in the books when she was first introduced, IMO, but I grew to like her as the series progressed. The actress cast as Asha did not display her fire or spirit.

Agree with last. She could have shown more spunk.

3. Ok, we know that Stannis and Mel eventually have sex of some sort in the books because of the shadow babies. The scene tonight was just weird, though, and not a good weird. The actor portraying Stannis and the writers/directors do nothing to set up the idea that Stannis is shown, initially, to be so brittle that he will break before he bends. We do not get a sense at all of his unyielding moral compass, which helps show us later his total hypocrisy in the situation with Melisandre.

Eh. I thought the scene was awkward as hell -- on purpose. But aren't you just quibbling with timing? Stannis is going to act like he's got a stick up his ass, don't worry. The hypocrisy will be quite apparent I think...

4. First the silver and now Rakharo?! Wtf, writers/directors? I understand the rakharo actor was offered another role, but then the show could have done something different than make him a bizarre plot point.

Like he rides off never to return? Wouldn't book people complain "what happened to Rakharo?" And then you'd have all these conspiracy theories that he might return later, in an even greater departure from the books. His death served a purpose. I liked how they handled this.

5. Why is Sam suddenly a horn dog constantly thinking about and looking at women? Writers/directors, wtf?

Are you serious? Considering that Sam is a 18ish-year-old straight male whose taken a vow of celibacy (a vow that kinda doesn't make sense) and may never know the love of a woman and hasn't even seen a woman for 6 months prior to epi 2, I think a certain amount of sexual frustration/curiosity is perfectly acceptable. So we now know he's an assman. Word. The fact that he takes Gilly to his friend Jon so they can help her is about as anti-creepy as you get. "She's a person, not a goat." Hello, that puts Sam about 1000 lightyears ahead of most men in Westeros. Props to Sam. And as a sidenote I thought the scene with Gilly/Jon/Sam was brilliant and great acting esp. from Kit.

6. Littlefinger has now been written to be creepy as shit without book littlefinger's intelligence. So instead of a great game player who is creepy, we get a dip shit who is creepy.

Well, what in this episode made him dumb? A bud of mine complained the same thing and I don't see it. Creepy? He's not watching his clients to get off. Dude deals in secrets. Remember last episode? "Knowledge is power." Cersei may not appreciate that fact. Doesn't make it any less true. He eavesdrops on his powerful clients to gain leverage. It's a lot easier to manipulate someone if you know all about their, ahem, proclivities. Not so mention people tend to say stuff they probably shouldn't in the throes of passion. Useful stuff.

7. Loved Arya (Maisie Williams) and Gendry (Joe Dempsie). Close to the book scenes and great interaction between the two. Their scene was the highlight of the episode. Jaqen was excellent for the small time we saw him. Yoren (Francis Magee) was excellent last season and this season as well. Conleith Hill as Varys was amazing as always.

Varys rocks. Yoren ditto. Exactly as imagined.

My least favorite episode so far. It started well with Arya, though I thought she was more provoking than defensive with her stick on Rorge. The books have Biter lurch thru the bars and try to grab her which prompts her to hit him with her stick. In the show it comes more like a kid poking at a barking dog in a cage. Not a big deal, but not as good a scene as it could have been. I liked Yoren’s interaction with the Gold Cloaks, though originally the came with they Queen’s orders. The second Arya scene didn’t sit as well with me how ever. Gendry doesn’t figure out she is a girl nor does she share her true identity until after Yoren’s death, and doing it before hand felt a bit forced. The acting was good, but it would have been more natural if it played out in the original time line instead of so soon. Even one more episode delay would have been worth while.

This just seems like wanting faithfulness to the books for the sake of faithfulness to the books. I get that this site is about the books, but appreciate the fact that it's an adaptation and choices will be made to -- in the showrunner's minds -- improve storytelling. So, I don't see the harm in Arya revealing her secret this soon. What difference does it make if she does it now, or later.

Tyrion, Shae and Varys scene is very good overall. I am still puzzled at Tyrion keeping Shae in the Tower of the Hand though. A big part of his problems at court are keeping Shae secret, NOT being willing to take her inside the castle and having to sneak out to see her. It also pretty much eliminates the idea that maybe Ros will be Alaya or Chataya as there is no need for the character if Shae isn’t being kept in hiding in the first place. Maybe she will in the future, but it’s hard to believe that all the spies in King’s Landing wouldn’t know about Shae by then. But beyond that point, the scene was well acted and I enjoyed it. Great considering I disliked season 1 Shae.

Yes agree. It makes me think there will be a scene made up to justify the escalation between Tyrion/Cersei. Like Cersei kills Ros maybe. But for what reason I dunno. On this point, the books made sense... Will look forward to what they come up with. Also, it eliminates an opportunity to see Varys/Tyrion sneak around the tunnels beneath the city and Varys in disguise. Perhaps they will manufacture another, but I liked that stuff.

The council meeting where Cersei tears up Rob’s offer went fine. Nothing particularly bad or good. Tyrion and Janos Slynt’s scene played out well, and I didn’t mind Bronn being named captain of the city watch. I hate Joffrey ordering the killing of Robert’s bastards instead of Cersei. And Tyrion implying that she was worried the bastards might have a claim as the reason she wanted them killed was also silly. Two Hands had already figured out Cersei and Jamie’s secret based in large part from seeing these bastards, and the danger was even higher after Stannis sent the letters making the story public rumor. Joffrey would have been much more likely to kill anyone who spread the “lies” than to kill Robert’s bastards, as he believed himself to be Robert’s son.

Sympathetic to this point but I think Joff doing it is plausible. TV Joff is older than book Joff, and he's more likely to assert himself. Plus, just because he's confident he's the heir, doesn't mean he isn't worried that someone will pick-up one of these bastard sons and use him to challenge the throne... Given the proliferation of kings throughout the realm, it's clear one does not need an air-tight primogeniture-observing claim to get into the action. Y'know? Plus, I can see Joff doing it just because he doesn't like the idea Robert had other kids out of wedlock. Or just because he can. Joff doesn't particularly need a good reason to be cruel. King does as he likes.

Now reasons why the showrunners opted for this? Maybe to build up the idea that Cersei is loosing control of the situation, which neccesitates Tyrion's badassery. Also makes Cersei more sympathetic, and frankly, she needs to be. Cause book Cersei is one-dimensional. Re-reading some of ADwD, I'm sold on that point.

The most disappointing thing is that most of my complaints are not things that would require a bigger budget or significantly more time, but just writing issues that seem to be things that just as easily could have been written more true to the books.

Yeah, I think in general though the writers have arguments as to why they depart from the source text. Whether those arguments are convincing is up for debate, but I think most, if not all, changes are based on improving the story-telling (in general and/or specific to the TV medium) and pragmatic issues (e.g. not confusing audience etc). Doesn't mean I agree with all their choices, but see why a good chunk of them make sense. A lot of the new scenes have worked really well imo.

Edited by SerBarristan

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7

First of all i must say i haven't read the books... Actually i read the 1st AFTER watching season 1, and i started reading the 2nd but stopped when i realized that i would enjoy more the tv series if i dont know what will happen (and read the books after). - So please, as the topic says NO spoilers, dont reveal waht will happen in the books (as some of you hint).

Anyway,

- I dislike Ros (and her fake crying) but liked Littlefingers intimidation (and just when i thought he would kiss her!!!!!)

- Tyrion is MUCH better even than season 1!!!!

- Cersei too is very good!

- I loved Yara, i mean the whole scene and the actress are amazing!

- The poor girl Theon enjoys in the ship was even uglier than described in the book...

- Arya is very good, Gendry not so much.....

I gave a 7, GoT is my favorite tv series by far, so i kind of wanted SOMETHING MORE from these first 2 episodes...... I hope i will get it in the next!!!

Edited by Judistira

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IMO, they have weakened both Brothers Baratheon. Robert was just lacking in stature, but Renly they completely lessened, and they seem to be edging that way with Stannis. I guess I get why...too many titans makes for weaker plot when it's limited to 10 hours.

Tyrion, Varys, Cersei, Jon, and the whole Yoren crew were excellent. Pyke was visualy great somehow...especially when Theon first lands.

Everything else was in the middle. Ros is annoying me, and her crying defies her presumed life experience, but they used it well for LF's character. Same for Shae...her acting has always been a bit off key for me, but they used her well in this episode.

Cersei is easily the most improved character this season.

Edit: minor point, but why is Tyrion suddenly such a whistler?

Edit, again: Making Joff the baby killer doesn't bother me for as it applies to Joff...not inconsistent, more like bigger Bran attempt...but I'm not crazy about the motivation; sympathizing Cersei. I think they are concerned about 3-dimensional-izing long term characters.

Edited by James Arryn

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IMO, they have weakened both Brothers Baratheon. Robert was just lacking in stature, but Renly they completely lessened, and they seem to be edging that way with Stannis.

Agree. Why though? Trying to figure out what purpose it serves to depict Renly with less bravado. Or Stannis with less... well everything. Oomph, for lack of a better word. I don't think the showrunners make choices that depart from the source material willy-nilly. I may be wrong about that, but if not, I can't really grasp what storytelling purpose it serves..

Edit: minor point, but why is Tyrion suddenly such a whistler?

Think it could be a few notes from a certain song? That would be outrageously cool.

Edited by SerBarristan

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Agree. Why though? Trying to figure out what purpose it serves to depict Renly with less bravado. Or Stannis with less... well everything. Oomph, for lack of a better word. I don't think the showrunners make choices that depart from the source material willy-nilly. I may be wrong about that, but if not, I can't really grasp what storytelling purpose it serves..

I think I unwittingly gave my response in one of my 20 edits. My best guess is they are worried about too many bigger than life characters...great for books, might make for bad tv, other than cartoons. Every attempt at filming the Illiad has had the same problem. If there are so many great could-be-kings walking about, it doesn't seem like such a big deal to be/get/kill/betray one.

In the books the titans do have some flaws, to a degree, but they are more subtly revealed. In a show I guess they have to paint in broader strokes. Hated it with Renly, starting to get a bit annoyed with Stannis.

I also think it's specifically the Baratheons because they are the biggest distractactions from the main plot conflicts they want to emphasize.

Edited by James Arryn

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What's wrong with the Stannis scene? Well, let's see. His entire character is based on him being this slave to duty and virtue, and in one of our first scenes with him he's an oathbreaker to his wife, cheating on her because she's "sick." Remember when John Edwards did that? Really screams a persons of honour and duty.

Second - how he did it. A spur of the moment decision. Again, simply screams Stannis. And worse, a spur of the moment decision clearly driven by temptation, selfishness, and -- if I'm being GENEROUS -- a bloodlust for power (giving him "an heir.").

Who is this character???

So, regardless -- even if Stannis had sex is the book with her, it wouldn't have been anything like this. Couldn't have been.

But third and most important, the book is NOT clear that they had sex at all. You wonder. You consider. You debate with your friends. There's some mysetery there.

**There is NO mystery in the HBO series, ever.** Everything is constantly being smashed over your head, like the viewers are idiots.

This excuse about "medium" differences is also getting old. There have been great, multi-deminsional, suspenseful, complicated plots AND characters in TV. Battlestar Gallactica: Bill Adama and basically every character on the show. Most characters from LOST. Deadwood, The Wire.

Game of Thrones the TV show and its characters don't stand up to any of those shows. In a story that was based on mystery and complicated characters, every bit of mystery and every complicated part of a character is being systematically removed. There was NO reason for that Stannis scene. Had NOTHING to do with "medium changes." The only reason it's in there is because HBO thinks it would get higher ratings if Stannis has hot, passionate sex scenes with a hot wizard, rather than if he didn't. The fact that Stannis the character would never have a hot sex scene -- and certainly not on the "spur of the moment" -- doesn't matter. This character is NOT Stannis, and HBO doesn't care.

Last... the dialogue. Why is there so much of it? Non-stop chatter. Where is a bit of silence, where it's just the camera and a character? Where their face shows what they're thinking, or better yet.. you wonder what they're thinking? In the Cersei and Tyrion scenes, those great actors have the good sense to at least pause in between sentences. In the others, it's just rapid fire, back and forth, endlessly, for the hour. I don't blame them. The writers have given the task of conveying everything by words, nothing by facial expressions or emotion.

Is there ever going to be a scene that can compare with Bill Adama crying alone in his quarters? A scene that can compare with any of the LOST characters having a moment to themselves, where you don't know what they're thinking but want more than ever to find out? Will HBO ever give us a scene like that? Like heck they will. Even though George gave them a raod-map to many scenes like that, and better, in the books.

And don't tell me there's too much story to get through. There is also no rule that HBO had to do an entire book in one season. They could've developed the plot far more than they have. Look how slowly LOST was developed. Look how slowly GEORGE developed THIS story in the books! The books aren't thousands of pages for George's good health. They are thousands of pages because ALL good stories, especially this one, must be told at a certain pace.

Here? Here Theon is tasked to go to his father's to get reinforcements and is there 5 minutes later, with his answer in hand. 0 suspense was able to build in that time. An outrage. The HBO show feels like point form notes, where getting through the plot is more a mechanical chore for the writers than a joy. And the audience can feel it.

The first book alone could have, and perhaps should have, taken several TV seasons. Instead, HBO handcuffs themselves by trying to tell a 1,000 page book in 10 episodes, then complains they have to tell the story poorly because they were handcuffed. It's their own fault they're handcuffed, how can it be an excuse! Why do people buy that excuse?

Frankly, I was embarassed by this episode. I haven't liked the HBO series at all so far. But this episode I didn't know what I story was watching, and didn't like it. An emabarassing disaster. If I'd never read the books, this is the type of story I would've laughed at. So simple, NO subtely whatsover. Even, dare I say, PREDICTABLE each and every time they stray from George's plot. Oh, let me guess: the hot female wizard gets a sex scene with the King.

The execution of the story is brutal; and apart from the Imp and the Queen, all other characters have been dumbed-down so much, that they are no longer interesting. Stannis practically got a labotomy. What a tragedy. And this is just the beginning.

So... How do you really feel? I mean, no need to hold back or anything.

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Think it could be a few notes from a certain song? That would be outrageously cool.

Which song are you thinking of? The Bear and the Maiden Fair? The Rains of Castamere? I can't think of any others (except one that hasn't been written yet in the show)

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Gave it a 5. The previous episode was a 6 so it's going down hill for me so far.

The entire episode had a really disjointed feel, jumping around, not spending more than a couple of minutes on any scene. It's become obvious that 10 episodes just isn't enough for such a long book even more so with the writers adding things not in the book.

The show has too much pointless sex in general. I know that people say that the books themselves have plenty of sex which is true enough. But the writers who are brutally cutting a lot of important and fan favorite things from the book, wouldn't cut even 1 second of completely pointless and irrelevant sex scenes. Take the scene with Theon and the girl on the boat. In the book it's 1 paragraph in a long chapter. In this episode it's almost as long as the entire travel to Pyke AND all the conversations in Pyke. And that for a girl that would never be seen again. I would've gladly given it up in favor of the feast in Pyke for example. Entire chapters in the books are cut to a 30 second dialog, entire paragraphs reduced to a single syllable, but every second of every breast MUST be shown.

And not content with all the sex in the book the writers feel the need to add even more. Loras and Renly for example, or the pointless Ros. Or in this case Mel and Stannis. Unlike Loras and Renly which you might say is implied in the book, this is IMO completely unlike the book characters. Book Stannis strikes me as almost completely asexual. He is all about duty. He married his wife out of duty, and he keeps Mel because she helps him do his duty. IIRC it is never explained how the shadows are made (I've just finished ASOS so it might be in later books) but I just can't imagine Melisandre as a seductress or Stannis as being lustful. And I don't for a moment believe that this scene was made for plot or character development. They just wanted to show her naked. That's no way to adapt our favorite books.

Daenerys is almost completely cut out so far, the only scene being the pointless death of Rakharo. Why?

Jaqen is too plain IMHO.In the book I imagined him as a sort of cross between Syrio, Drogo, and James Bond. Here he's so wooden, he says his lines like he's bored and half asleep. Could''ve hired Keanu Reeves to play him for all the acting he does.

I don't like that the bastard killing is transferred to Joffrey. Book Joffrey is evil enough without blaming him for every bad thing that happens. The writers are turning Show Joffrey into a cartoon that makes emperor Palpatine seem like a deep and nuanced character.

I expected the writers to play up Craster sacificing his sons more than in the books so wasn't surprised by it. Sure it's a little odd that he's got a new baby ready just as the Watch rides in and he goes to do the deed while they're stll there but I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here. This might still turn out good if they develop it right.

I hate Ros and every pointless scene she's at. Every minute she's on the screen is a minute that could be Catelyn's or Arya's or Bran's or Daenerys', or any other character that we all love.'

It's weird because I loved the first season bubt this one is so far very mediocre. I'm just hoping the show improves with time.

Edited by ace

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Rains. It would just be neat if they were thinking that far ahead. I doubt it. But it'd still be a nice teaser. And they have to play it a couple times for the coup de grace otherwise folks won't appreciate the significance.

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@Ser Barristan

If Tyrion were indeed whistling the Rains of Castamere, that would be so cool.....I doubt it for the reasons you state....but still

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+ Ghost

+ Arya and Gendry

+ anything Davos, I just love Davos

+ Theon's visit to Pyke and his rediculue were awesome

+ Sallador Saan was AWESOME!

- Melisandre+ Stannis. Bleh

- Bron a captain?? Just wrong

- The entire brothel scene

They gotta stop giving all the awesome lines to Tyrion.

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