sarah.jenice Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Wow. I didn't know Dunk had four descendants in the books. Brienne does share a lot of his stubborn honor and that shield quote really is telling. Unless Dunk gets all of the way back to Dorne, he never met up with Tanselle to have children with her. So far, he hasn't been with a woman so he needs to get on that soon if he's going to be making descendants. I absolutely do not think Dunk will break his vows once he becomes a kingsguard.How many of these stories is George writing? Will we see Summerhall? I have so many questions about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yes, the consensus is that the D&E stories will culminate with Summerhall. I'm not sure if Martin has confirmed this but I think it would be logical. After all, it's literally where both of their stories end and together no less ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Further possible evidence for Brienne being Dunk's descendant, is in the Sworn Sword Dunk uses a dagger to kill Ser Lucas Inchfield who was using a rock. In AFFC Shagwell dies when trying to use a rock against Brienne who was armed with a dagger. Brienne thought "a dagger would beat a rock almost every time".Don't know if this counts as evidence, but thought it is quite a nice parallel between to two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sworn Shield Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Whoops just remembered that Ser Alyn Cockshaw attacked Dunk with a dagger, but was beaten by Dunk with a rock. Oh never mind I still believe that Dunk is Brienne's Great-grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheswamp Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It is a pet theory of mine that Pretty Meris is a descendant of Ser Duncan. There isn't much evidence to it, but she is Westerosi, blond, tall, and must have a bit of a fighter/adventurer spirit to have joined the Windblown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer is Ending Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I'm personally hoping Grenn is one of them but that's nothing but pure sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Dragonstone Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I love the D&E series, and I also hope it shows what happened at Summerhall, as I am a bit confused about all that as well.I completely agree with Brienne being 1/4 of Dunk's children. Her mannerisms are very similar to what I imagine Dunk's offspring's mannerisms to be. The quote that was posted on this forum from the present books about the shield: I had forgotten about that. That kind of foreshadowing really amazes me. I read D&E after I read all five (so far!) ASOIAF books, so I didn't "get" that paragraph until it was pointed out on this thread. I think it's quite obvious, at least for me and how I process things, that GRRM is foreshadowing Brienne's relation to Dunk there. She says that the arms she describes were in her father's armory, so she would be descended from Dunk via the male line of her family, if so. Dunk didn't technically have a last name, and any child he would have produced would have been either a bastard or baseborn since he was in the KG and technically was not allowed to procreate.As for the Cleganes, I like this theory also. The irony here is great, although I think the Hound will redeem himself ;) I always thought of him as more of a misunderstood character than as a full-on "bad guy," and I agree that personality traits are taught by parents and this is technically part of the environment aspect of nature vs. nuture. In these old times, nurture does come from the family, because the children don't go to school or really interact with any inspirational figures besides the ones hired or appointed by the family. These figures usually adopt family beliefs and mottos (such as the maesters, milkmothers, etc) and thus, the children are taught these specific traits, i.e. "Lannisters always pay their debts" or Arya says, paraphrasing, "my father always said it was wrong to steal" (Stark honor). For example, when Bran must act as the Stark in WF, his father and Maester basically have told him what to say, how to think, and how to act when he must come across the people he rules.At any rate, I am not sure about the others mentioned here. I need to re-read the fifth ASOIAF book and see if I can pick up on anything for the new characters we've been introduced to. Good theories guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Dunk could have been a widower at the time of his being put on the King's Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerLaughingStorm Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Another parallel between Dunk and Brienne is the fact that neither were officially knighted but both joined a King's Guard (White or Rainbow cloaks :P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 I think we can rest our case about Brienne. Her reflection on the shield is a dead giveaway, and GRRM as much as confirmed it.Umbers are more difficult. We only know Greatjon, Smalljon, Mors and Hother, but the Greatjon has more sons, so that leaves the numbers entirely unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 So far, he hasn't been with a woman so he needs to get on that soon if he's going to be making descendants.I laughed out loud at this part of The Sworn Shield, the build up to that moment between Dunk and Rohanne was that good. I'd love to see more of this sort of lighthearted banter in the regular series:I'll bet she's freckled all over..."I think you must be large all over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I don't think every single tall person is a descendant of Duncan the Tall. Brienne definitely. Hoder possibly. The Umbars, less so. The Cleganes? Little evidence. Who next Left and Right? The Baratheons? (they're all at least 6 foot 4 right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I don't think every single tall person is a descendant of Duncan the Tall. Brienne definitely. Hoder possibly. The Umbars, less so. The Cleganes? Little evidence. Who next Left and Right? The Baratheons? (they're all at least 6 foot 4 right?)Why not? A Baratheon fought in his trial by Seven, maybe he had a sister he introduced to Dunk later! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Why not? A Baratheon fought in his trial by Seven, maybe he had a sister he introduced to Dunk later! :lol:Actually yeah the Baratheons are more likely than the Cleganes. They would have come to KL for tourneyments too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Actually yeah the Baratheons are more likely than the Cleganes. They would have come to KL for tourneyments too.Not really, GRRM said there are 4 descendents, we take Brienne out, we need 3 more. If one of the Baratheon is a descendent, then all of them are, and we already know 3 Baratheon brothers + Shireen + all of Robert's bastards... it doesn't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Also, SSM said, I believe, there are 4 descendants of Dunk currently in the books.This isn't true. I've heard it said a lot, but I've never once seen a link to it.http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Dunks_Descendantsthat's what he's said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 This isn't true. I've heard it said a lot, but I've never once seen a link to it.http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Dunks_Descendantsthat's what he's said.I don't know if that's all we have on this matter, but I doubt it... Unless my reading comprehension entirely fails me, this quote is from 1999. GRRM is much further along with the stories by now. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Even if Brienne is not Dunk's descendent (and I think she is the most likely candidate) she certainly is designed as a parallel character to him. Both are the truest to the ideal of what a knight should be while not knights, both have a certain slowness or simplicity of mind and both have a wish to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I posted what I know for a fact we have. He probably has spoken on it since, but seeing as no one has evidence for it, these assumptions that he said four seem totally ungrounded. By the time of that quote he'd introduced the main four people who are mostly speculated, so he'll have that connection firm in his mind if it is true. I don't see what would have happened since to make him much more glib on the issue.By all means speculate, just don't get your hopes up that there will be four, until you know for certain Martin said that. If you can find the quote please, please throw me a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I posted what I know for a fact we have. He probably has spoken on it since, but seeing as no one has evidence for it, these assumptions that he said four seem totally ungrounded. By the time of that quote he'd introduced the main four people who are mostly speculated, so he'll have that connection firm in his mind if it is true. I don't see what would have happened since to make him much more glib on the issue.By all means speculate, just don't get your hopes up that there will be four, until you know for certain Martin said that. If you can find the quote please, please throw me a link.what happened in 13 years??? 2 more books from asoiaf, some Brienne chapters, and 2 Dunk & Egg novellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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