Maggy the Frog, theory about her prophecy

[tze]

Maggy didn't say "little brother", she said "valonqar". Valonqar means "little brother" in High Valyrian, but nobody speaks High Valyrian as a mother tongue, and a big deal has been made over how the multiple Valyrian dialects are on their way to becoming separate languages. Maggy had no earthly reason not to say "little brother" had she meant "little brother" here. (The question would still have been "well, which little brother?", so it's not like substituting a foreign word for such a common term should have been necessary, even if Maggy just wanted to be extra-cryptic.)

We don't know where Maggy actually came from. We don't know what "valonqar" means in Maggy's native tongue. When a person substitutes a foreign word like this, the obvious implication is that she's resorting to her own language's word because she doesn't know its Common Tongue equivalent. But "little brother" is too common a term for someone in Maggy's position, and with her apparent language skills, not to know. Assuming Maggy's dialect retains the word's High Valyrian meaning, or that Maggy just stuck in a High Valyrian word for shits and giggles, strikes me as unwise.

The Tyroshi who brings a dwarf's head to Cersei says,

“I bring you justice. I bring you the head of your valonqar.”

Cersei automatically assumes he's referring to Tyrion as her little brother. But that makes no sense, because what kind of moron goes to a queen seeking a reward and makes sure to highlight her kinship to the person whose death she's ordered? (Notice how this Tyroshi never confirms that he meant "valonqar" to mean little brother.) Cersei (sort of) asks Taena what "valonqar" means in Myrish, but Taena never tells her. At this point, we really don't know what "valonqar" means in any Valyrian dialect, let alone whatever dialect Maggy spoke. It likely has some sort of linguistic connection to "little brother", but who knows what kind. It could be Maggy's native language's word for dwarf. It could be a word for a priest. It could be a general term for a killer ("little brothers" move up lines of succession when their older brothers die, and frequently play a role in those deaths). It could be a term for a kinslayer, for the same reason. It could be Maggy not knowing the Common Tongue term for Kingsguard or a brother of the Night's Watch and substituting a word from her own language. It could mean any number of things.

But I keep seeing people taking it for granted that "valonqar" means little brother, and we just have to suss out which little brother it's referring to. I think if you look at how Maggy conveys this prophecy, and how "High Valyrian" has been treated in the text, that makes no sense.

[Arya Weinergaryen]

My favourite candidate for the valonqar is Sandor Clegane. He appears in Cersei's trial as the Faith's champion, and kills/rekills UnGregor, thus dooming Cersei's life.

Huh. There is THAT.

[Arya Weinergaryen]

What if it's the "Younger and More Beautiful"(queen)'s vlanquar?

[keira_targaryen]

I think it will be Sansa, because Cersei and Sansa are connected. They have a bond Sansa at first admired Cersei, and the Queen didn't hate Sansa. In fact Cersei could see Sansa as queen, one she could control. It woul be funny to see Cersei's reaction when Sansa take way her everything she have left. And it is Not impossible for Sansa be queen, she is with LF and that man is inteligent, smart and dangerous, he can make Sansa a queen. How? Well, if Stannis wife for some reason end up dead I can't see a better alliance than marry Sansa, it would bring the Valley, it would bring all northsmen to his side and if Jon survives the stabbing it would bring him to. Other question is: Sansa is married but that marriage isn't consumned and Stannis as a King can put an end to her marriage. But we have Aegon too, LF knows how to play he can manage a way to meet Aegon and convince him that wed a Stark it's a good plan, Sansa has the Valley and has the northsmen with her. And once again the marriage between her and Tyrion doesn't mean a thing because they never had sex.

Sansa as a queen it's Not impossible and people seem to forget that she is with LF, she is learning the game of thrones with the best.

About the person who will kill Cersei it can be a lot of people, we have Arya, Sandor, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Aegon, LF, Rickon, Loras, Benjen... Among these people I pointed out 5 would kill Cersei in the make of Sansa Stark.

Of course this is my point of view, I can be very wrong about this. And its my first time here :)

PS: sorry for some mistakes, english it's Not my mother language.:)

[The Bedding]

Who cares about the Valonqar as long as that bitch is dead¿

The stannis thing got me, I'm sold.

This!

[gregg22]

Also, since many have commented how specific Maggy has been with her numbers in her prophecy, lets not forget that this "volonqar" uses his "hands" plural.

Jaime is short one hand to fulfill that prophecy. Unless "hands" refers the chain of office of the Hand of the King. AS we know he can't wrap his "gold hand" around anything.

(Sidenote: I always wondered why the armorer couldn't make the gold hand in a position to somehow grip a sword. He could use two hands and keep fighting from the right side)

[JasonJD]

I'm gonna say Tyrion. It fits the prophesy exactly and its so obvious that people think it's not true, which itself is the trick.

[Mrs_Darcy]

Also, since many have commented how specific Maggy has been with her numbers in her prophecy, lets not forget that this "volonqar" uses his "hands" plural.

Jaime is short one hand to fulfill that prophecy. Unless "hands" refers the chain of office of the Hand of the King. AS we know he can't wrap his "gold hand" around anything.

(Sidenote: I always wondered why the armorer couldn't make the gold hand in a position to somehow grip a sword. He could use two hands and keep fighting from the right side)

Jaime still has two hands, a hand made of flesh and a hand made of gold. I do not have the text at hand right now, but there are multiple references in Jaime's chapters to his hands.

[7th-key]

Yes, he could still manage to strangle her, but despite of the effectiveness, it would be clumsy. What would make the choice of words ("wrap his hands") also clumsy. That's not what GRRM does.

English is not my first language, so maybe "wrap his hands about your pale white throat" is something of a more fumbling action.

Anyway, as things are now, I don't like the prospect of Jaime as the Valonqar. Jaime killing a mad Cersei, like he killed a mad Aerys, would not be full cycle or redemptive, but more likely putting him right at the beginning.

[stateofdissipation]

Also, since many have commented how specific Maggy has been with her numbers in her prophecy, lets not forget that this "volonqar" uses his "hands" plural.

Jaime is short one hand to fulfill that prophecy. Unless "hands" refers the chain of office of the Hand of the King. AS we know he can't wrap his "gold hand" around anything.

(Sidenote: I always wondered why the armorer couldn't make the gold hand in a position to somehow grip a sword. He could use two hands and keep fighting from the right side)

Did Maggy see the future?

If she saw it hands around the throat could be from a point of view. Tricky pov.. Jamie from the left has both arms up with his visable hand choking the life out of her and the gold hand resting on her shoulder.

That is not an impossibility.

(side note, why did not the armorer make him have a sword for a hand. like wolverine. even a dagger for his hand would be better than a golden club.)

[High_Valyrian]

"Valonqar" is a Valyrian word. Perhaps Maggy chose that word to refer to someone who is Valyrian, or at least of Valyrian descent. The Targs were Valyrian. That would point towards Jon being the valonqar (assuming R + L = J).

[Foibles]

(Sidenote: I always wondered why the armorer couldn't make the gold hand in a position to somehow grip a sword. He could use two hands and keep fighting from the right side)

He'd still lack any wrist motion.

A complete sword arm word have been cooler though.

[RainGhost]

"Valonqar" is a Valyrian word. Perhaps Maggy chose that word to refer to someone who is Valyrian, or at least of Valyrian descent. The Targs were Valyrian. That would point towards Jon being the valonqar (assuming R + L = J).

It's hard to see Cersei and Jon being in the same place at the same time though. Cersei's hardly likely to visit the Wall, unless she goes completely mad of course, which is entirely possible.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

"Valonqar" is a Valyrian word. Perhaps Maggy chose that word to refer to someone who is Valyrian, or at least of Valyrian descent. The Targs were Valyrian. That would point towards Jon being the valonqar (assuming R + L = J).

Maggy was from Essos, where various forms of Valyrian are still spoken and a few Valyrian words have crept into everyday conversation. It would be cool if this was a clue, but I don't think it is. By that token, Aegon would also qualify, and Stannis remains in the running because of his grandmother.

[The Fresh PtwP]

"Valonqar" is a Valyrian word. Perhaps Maggy chose that word to refer to someone who is Valyrian, or at least of Valyrian descent. The Targs were Valyrian. That would point towards Jon being the valonqar (assuming R + L = J).

Or Aegon, or Stannis...

[7th-key]

or A+J = C&J and/or A+J = T

*dun dun dun!*

[Lady Blizzardborn]

or A+J = C&J and/or A+J = T

*dun dun dun!*

Those theories are old news around here. Are you playing the Valyrian Valonqar angle? Could work but then Maggy just could have said "your" valonqar instead of perplexing us all. Shame on her for being less than clear!

[Endymion I Targaryen]

For some reason I believe it's Sansa + Jaime,the ones she thought as stupid will be her downfall.

[Epyon]

Book Marg isn't really regarded as beautiful, like she is on the show..

I think the Queen that will overthrow Cersei will be one of Arianne, Sansa, or Danaerys... all depending on who marries Aegon/sacks King's Landing with him.

If the queen in question also happens to be Daenarys (who is a queen in her own right, even if she is not yet married to Aegon), it could also set the stage for two other prophecy fulfillments:

1. Dany's third betrayal, for love... Aegon standing Daeny up for Arianne or Sansa

2. Tyrion would be present, with Daenarys at the sack of King's Landing. I would imagine, Jaime will also be present, at the very least, to try and save Tommen's life. That puts both of Cersei's younger brothers in a crumbling city with Cersei. Perfect recipe for one of them to snuff her.

[7th-key]

Those theories are old news around here. Are you playing the Valyrian Valonqar angle? Could work but then Maggy just could have said "your" valonqar instead of perplexing us all. Shame on her for being less than clear!

I find the use of the Valyrian word as specific as its translation.

Btw. one of those theories would also imply Tommen being of half Targ blood. He'd be the valonqar if Maggy was still referring to the previous theme, Cersei's kids.

But I was merely pondering over implications.

In the end, it might just be something called that in Essos, ... e.g the Second Sons...

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