Volantis Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Arianne goes in and just sticks to the plan of confirm and verify, for some reason does know how to identify Aegon,with what? a DNA test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 the Question is, since the TO Joy is in Dorne, how many people know or suspect that Rheagar had a child by Lyanna Stark or that she was pregnant or possibly married to?Very few, at best. Howland Reed for certain, and most likely Wylla, since she probably served as a midwife / wet nurse.In regards to a Darkstar connection, there's speculation on a few of the Daynes (via Arthur Dayne), for practical reasons. Ashara Dayne and Ned Dayne's father were possibilities. Since the ToJ was closest to Starfall, and maybe / probably received the most basic of food and supplies from there, they may have been privy to the goings on at the ToJ. If that's the case, it's possible that this knowledge may have come to Darkstar later on I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Given the Daynes involvement in Harrenhal, and then the TOJ, Jon could be the secret that Darkstar knows about. :dunno:Having Ned Dayne's "view" on the matter,I think some version of story was known to everyone at Starfall,in the way all the best lies have a bit of the truth,you know what I mean? (Wylla nursed Jon,but as wetnurse,not mother,yet something was peculiar about that so it remained in the memory of people) However,I don't think it's probable that Doran knows,even suspects anything,since Dornish people are tied to Targs only,and are playing a specific game of thrones where the power is related to them - I don't think they are for the Targs rulership on its own,unlike Varys,in his own resolute way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Dragonstone Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Read this chapter when it came out and have been chewing on it ever since, while I am rereading. I am actually surprised that GRRM gave us a chapter with so much to think about. :) Some thoughts:- Arianne's lineup does seem pretty strange to me. I don't call to question the size, but rather the content, and I agree with those that suggest she should have been traveling with more experienced persons. Of course, Doran rarely does things without going over them a hundred times, so there must be a reason. I suppose we shall see.- A real kraken, and I am excited about it, although it cannot mean anything good.- While it's interesting, I don't have the same fervor or excitement that people are expressing about the Darkstar/Areo possible fight. I never really "got" the whole Darkstar thing. What I am really interested in knowing, is why people think that Dawn must be Lightbringer? I guess I will have to search the forums on this one!- I took Arianne's tough stance on Dany as her projecting a bit of herself onto Dany. Instead of wondering why she did these acts or what justifications she might have had, she jumps to a far more extreme conclusion. I understand that the Mad King's reputation also projects onto Dany's; however, I was a bit shocked at Arianne's thoughts. I also didn't like the fact that Arianne places more importance on JC than Aegon. As we saw at the end of DWD, Aegon is not afraid to overstep JC, and he seemed to be a bit power-hungry to me. I think this might bring her a little trouble down the road. Aegon came to be a King, and Kings are often wont to be questioned as it is. Arianne will need to step carefully treating with these two. At the beginning of this chapter, I felt like she had "changed," but after finishing the chapter and mulling over it, I don't really see much of a change in her true self -- the only difference that I can see is that she's finally placing her father and her country's needs over her own.- on the Dance of the Dragons: wow. Nice prophecy randomly thrown in the mix, GRRM. I am interested to see what will happen with the horn and the dragons. I wish we knew what the outcome of blowing the horn would be. Will the dragons stand to be changed hands? Their allegiance to Dany is concrete. Interesting thought I saw on this board about the dragons being able to tell whether or not Aegon was legitimate -- a factor I had admittedly looked over, previously. The Ironborn and their horns are a discussion best left to another thread but I will say that I don't think Dany will be hugs and kisses when she meets Aegon. She won't have forgotten the prophecy about the mummer's dragon. Like I said, I think she will cast doubt onto Aegon's claim simply because if I was in her shoes, I would be wondering who the hell is this person? I had originally thought that Dany would probably first land near the Wall, but I think she may land wherever Aegon is first and take care of that. I wonder whether she will choose to land North and try to eliminate Stannis or South to determine what's going on with this supposed nephew. I don't think she will land in Blackwater Bay because she has indicated that she will garner support before she fights whoever is on the Throne. If there is a DoD, I see it as happening in this book because I think Martin will save the battle with the Others for last. Aegon has already taken over the Stormlands and will now be treating with Dorne, and to me, that's moving things along pretty quickly.How possible is it that Doran does know about Jons existance?[snip]Given the Daynes involvement in Harrenhal, and then the TOJ, Jon could be the secret that Darkstar knows about.As a tried-and-true R+L=J shipper, this was my first thought. I'm so glad I'm not the only one! :) I am sure that the smallfolk and people at Starfall know about this story; afterall, it was commonly told in the kitchens of Winterfell which is thousands of leagues away. I am seriously hoping for a reappearce of Ned Dayne, though. Not only was he adorable, but he could have some valuable information. At this point I am not sure if we will see Howland Reed afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishBastardOfBolton Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm curious about the elephants. The only reference I can think of would be the party in Volantis, but that can't be right.oliphaunts?? what would the gaffer say if he could see me now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 So does Arianna actually love Quentyn or was she just trying to fool herself after Daemon Sand made a pretty hinting remark about her possibly not wanting Quentyn back so she could get what she wanted politically? I mean it did seem like a rather sudden burst of sisterly love eh. Seemed a bit rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 with what? a DNA test?Yes, thats it.No.So you think that Illryio and Varys would just send this kid who looks like every other kid in Lys and a few Daynes, without anything else that might help confirm who he is?If he was switched, I'm sure Elia herself had a hand in that and that probably meant clandestine communications with Doran, Oberyn, or both.- A heriditary piece of jewelary from Elia?- Perhaps the other chess piece- A swaddling blanket.This is fantasy so he could even have the dreaded birthmark.I suspect theres also something in Lyannas crypt, (remember Jon was always being drawn there), that would confirm Jons idenity, or the word of another person, since the word of a Crannogman may not suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhoynar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is there any reason why the little Dornish girl should have prophetic dreams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Im pretty late on this. Glad to see that the Darkstar is actually a legitimate badass. Ive always liked the guy. The Red Viper himself thought the man was poison and dangerous? Thas some pretty insane hype. Im hoping the prologue is him killing Areo.The krakens are kinda interesting. I wonder if we're going to be seeing some of the drowned god's power.Aurane Waters the pirate lord is surprising. I cant really see him playing a large role though.I hope we dont lose Jon Connington's pov to Arianne. He's easily one of the more badass characters, and I'd much rather have the meeting told from his side.Dont really agree with the idea that Elia is supposed to be a dornish Lyanna. Lyanna was already telling Ned that love couldnt change a man's nature when she was probably like what, 11 or 12? I always pictured her as being more laid back and less childish than that. and I still think the idea of a 14 year hold girl wearing a man's armor and unseating knights is ridiculous. Untill grrm says otherwise, im going with the assumption that Ned was the KotLT.So does Arianna actually love Quentyn or was she just trying to fool herself after Daemon Sand made a pretty hinting remark about her possibly not wanting Quentyn back so she could get what she wanted politically? I mean it did seem like a rather sudden burst of sisterly love eh. Seemed a bit rushed.Doubtful. He's still a stranger to her. He's her brother, and shes suposed to love him though so she tries to convince herself that she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogdevil Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is there any reason why the little Dornish girl should have prophetic dreams?Personally, I don't think House Toland is Dornish. Going through the Wiki, there are three different types of Dornish because of subsequent invasions of the andals, rhoynar, etc. These three types are sandy, salty, and stony.from the wiki:Sandy: faces burned brown by the hot Dornish sun, they are even darker than the salty DornishmenSalty: lithe and dark, with smooth olive skin and long black hair.Stony: brown-haired or blond with faces that are freckled or burned by the sun. also, live in the passes and heights of the Red MountainsNow house Toland is located at Ghost Hill on the the northeastern coast of Dorne. The closest house to where the COF brought the hammer down and shattered the land bridge to Essos. The mother and both daughters are all described as being pale and having fiery red hair. Where they are located you would expect them to be salty dornishmen (aka olive skinned and dark black hair). I think that they are an ancient family with First Men blood and may have married to other first men outside of Dorne. Of course my only evidence is their appearance and knowing that red hair is an recessive trait that would be extremely unlikely to show up in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is there any reason in particular why the girl shouldn't be having prophetic dreams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brut Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Why was it necessary to describe Quentyn's appearance again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Redeemed Hound Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Other than this released chapter and the Theon chapter, were any other WoW chapters released for us to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Other than this released chapter and the Theon chapter, were any other WoW chapters released for us to read?Not that I know of, but GRRM has done readings, from part of a Victarion Chapter, before Meereen, and the second Arianne Chapter. Should be able to find brief summaries in So Spake Martin I think.Oh and a Tyrion reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhoynar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Is there any reason in particular why the girl shouldn't be having prophetic dreams?Well, yes. It's not something normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Just read the chapter and some thoughts:1. I cannot wait for Arianne and co. to get to Storm's End, not only for her interactions with JonCon and YG, but also for her to interact with Sylva, who should be there along with her husband after the GC took the keep of the Estermonts. Hopefully we find out who snitched to Doran.2. So, Waters set himself up as a pirate king, eh? When you have the best ships money can buy, why the hell not. Plus, if he's an agent of Varys, we could potentially see those dromonds on the Blackwater. (My crackpot though is that his will be the fleet to confront Manderly's ships. No real evidence to support this, other than the fact that his is the biggest fleet on the eastern side of the continent to counter the Northern Navy if/when it goes south.)1. My personal theory is that no one informed on Arianne. I think that Doran had her closely watched all along. He wants her to think it was a person close to her in order to teach her a lesson. A little mistrust in those you care about the most is a good thing.2. I too believe that Waters is working with/for Varys. This "Pirate King" thing is a convenient disguise until aegon is ready to move on KL. Either that, or he could be biding his time to launch a "Ninepenny King" invasion all his own. From the chapter we know that all kinds of foreign vessels have been seen in Westerosi waters since the Redwyne fleet left. Maybe a foreign invasion is being plotter once all the houses have exhausted their strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoSilentSister Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Well, yes. It's not something normal.Neither is warging. And yet Varamyr was a warg, without descending from any particular bloodlines. Okay, he has probably the blood of the first men, but so might some random girl in Dorne. Might have some Valyrian blood too. Why would we assume that dragon dreams are restricted to Targs? They are the only ones, who can capitalize on them; whoever else has them can't do much about it anyway, which might be sufficient explanation why we rarely hear from those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Prophetic dreams aren't normal but being descended from a certain line doesn't really help with that. Its just one of those things that some are lucky enough to ae born with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengrace Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Arianne does have love for her brother speaking form experience of sibling rivalries and hate Quentyn is hers to chastise and embarrass whether he knows it or not. She intially showing contempt for him because she figured her brother and father have been plotting to cast her aside this whole time but know she knows better and the heart of stone she built to keep her from feeling anything for him and father is no longer needed for that wasn't the case. Arianne is trying to decide between the two sides of her the girl and the woman between love and duty. She doesn't know of what happened to her brother but she is curious not sure how to feel about it its new to her and the people who know her because like Cersei she trusted known with the knowledge she learned from the letter but the poison took over her life and was all she knew that her father intended QUentyn to follow him and she is at a lost now but still has a duty to perform as heir of Sunspear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Magic Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 How does that little girl have foreshadowing dreams...who is she exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.