‘Muslim Patrol’ vigilantes forcing ‘people to stop drinking and women to cover up’ in London

[str8 outta Old Town]

I'm confused. You said immigrant, rather than citizen or subject, but I'll assume she has a legal right to vote. Nothing wrong with that. I would, however, think it morally wrong for someone from Mexico, to move of the US (legally) and begin agitating to make Spanish, the official language.

Totally against numpties in balaklavas shouting a tramps carrying special brew, but what's wrong with Spanish becoming an official language in the US? Seems logical to me. The state should reflect the people, not dictate to them.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Totally against numpties in balaklavas shouting a tramps carrying special brew, but what's wrong with Spanish becoming an official language in the US? Seems logical to me. The state should reflect the people, not dictate to them.

English is still the language spoken by the vast majority...except in Los Angeles and Miami. My God, man, do you want us to become another Canada?

[str8 outta Old Town]

English is still the language spoken by the vast majority...except in Los Angeles and Miami. My God, man, do you want us to become another Canada?

As far as I knew, the US only has a de facto official language. But many nations have officially bilingual regions, or two official languages, and many of them have no problems whasoever. Canada, Switzerland (4 languages), Finland, the UK (3-6 depending on how you count), Singapore, India etc. etc.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Why is that a good thing?

[str8 outta Old Town]

Why is that a good thing?

Because it allows people to use their own language with the state, and makes the state more representative of the people.

The town I come from has all government services available in Urdu, in order to better represent the population. I don't live there at the moment, but as of this afternoon when I skyped my mam, the sky hadn't fallen on our heads.

[The Iceman of the North]

May I just add that Miami-Dade County print their voting ballots/information in English, Spanish and Haitian-Creole, and I doubt they are the only multi-lingual county. So it's not like there aren't multiple de facto official languages in the US today.

[str8 outta Old Town]

May I just add that Miami-Dade County print their voting ballots/information in English, Spanish and Haitian-Creole, so it's not like there aren't multiple de facto official languages in the US today.

Seems a sensible policy, it just needs extending.

[Maltaran]

For instance, while living in the UK, I was permitted to vote in local elections, but not to vote for Parliament. As a Swedish citizen, I could instead vote in the elections for the Swedish parliament.

I did not know this. That is incredibly awesome.

While EU citizens who are UK residents can vote in local elections in the UK, Commonwealth citizens and Irish citizens can vote in any UK election, provided they're properly registered on the electoral roll.

[Zoë Sumra]

Relevant: pressure is growing inside Italy for its citizenship laws to be relaxed.

Due to legislation which is, say critics, increasingly anachronistic, the children of immigrants in Italy must wait until they are 18 to be able to acquire citizenship. In order to qualify for nationality as adults, they must have been on Italian soil "without interruption" throughout their childhood.

...

To its critics, Italy's citizenship law – based largely on the concept of jus sanguinis, the right of blood – reflects the country's past as a country of emigration rather than its present, and future, as one of immigration.

...

According to the national statistics institute, there are more than 500,000 children resident in Italy whose parents come from countries outside the EU and h

have to spend their infancy and teenage years with a residency permit and tight restrictions on their movements.

Until 2008, one was Mario Balotelli, the Manchester City footballer, who, despite being born in Sicily and fostered by an Italian family, was technically considered a Ghanaian citizen and was therefore ineligible to play for Italy until the age of 18.

The disparity between the law in Italy and in some other major European countries, where citizenship rules are more flexible, has long been a cause of concern to many. Unicef is campaigning for a change, claiming the situation violates the basic rights of minors.

[str8 outta Old Town]

According to the Wiki this is at the membership states' discretion, but it certainly seemed to work that way in the UK, and I know it works that way in Sweden. Not sure if it's the same in the UK, but a EU citizen can also stand for election in Sweden in local elections.

Living in Spain (as a UK/Italian citizen) I could vote in local and European elections, but not regional and national ones. In Romania I don't seem to be able to vote at all, but I wouldn't put a cross next to the name of a Romanian politician anyway, for fear of getting shit on my biro.

[Larry of the Lawn]

As far as I knew, the US only has a de facto official language. But many nations have officially bilingual regions, or two official languages, and many of them have no problems whasoever. Canada, Switzerland (4 languages), Finland, the UK (3-6 depending on how you count), Singapore, India etc. etc.

Exactly. I can't understand when people here (in the US) whine about people not being able to speak English. How does it even affect you if someone doesn't speak English? It doesn't.

Sometimes I think it's because many Americans feel insecure about the fact that they can't speak anything but English.

If they want to communicate in english they will. No one's forcing you to learn spanish or hungarian. I can't see any reason to have an Official language in the US. I've also never, ever heard of someone trying to make Spanish the official language, so I don't understand why someone would be afraid of that happening.

[Sci-2]

I still kinda think US should have one official language, though certain essentials should be in multiple languages. Some stuff should be translated by region as necessity and community decisions on budgets dictates.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

St8

Totally against numpties in balaklavas shouting a tramps carrying special brew, but what's wrong with Spanish becoming an official language in the US? Seems logical to me. The state should reflect the people, not dictate to them.

Contrary to Popular opinion there is no official language in the US. As such, I would object to Spanish being made such.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Ser Scot,

I think they've all been using the phrase, "de facto", to get around that.

[Istakhr]

I might agree that moving to another country to incite change that you know would be detrimental to the wellbeing of the country might constitute moral wrongdoing, but then you need to define harm. Either that, or you're saying that groups supporting women in Iran trying to change public driving laws are immorally trying to change the fabric of their society. (Note, not an argument for moral relativism, as changing the patriarchal nature of Iran would be detrimental to the fabric of Iranian society as it stands. That such a destruction may, and in my opinion is, better for the PEOPLE of Iran is a different argument).

Emm, despite all fuckedupness of Iran, public driving for women is and always was legal in the country.

By the way why are people so worried about muslim birth rates and Eurobia and such? You do know that most muslims, even most of the fundamentalists consider almost all forms of birth control allowed under islam?

Birth rates among muslim populations usually fall down pretty fast the moment they are no longer extremely poor and uneducated, the only exception being Saudi Arabia. As an example you can check the fall of birth rates in other Arab countries during the last 20 years. Also an extreme example is Iran which I think already has a lower fertility rate than US.

Some interpretations of islam even allow abortion before some 40 days or so after conception, because they believe fetus does not have a soul before that.

ETA: Iran's fertility rate (birth rate per woman) is lower than the US, not population growth.

[Castel]

Birth rates among muslim populations usually fall down pretty fast the moment they are no longer extremely poor and uneducated, the only exception being Saudi Arabia

Yeah, I would assume that the birthrate drops as the next generation gets assimilated and educated. The question is how many Orthodox groups there are that refuse to get assimilated and how many new immigrants are coming in.

[Istakhr]

Yeah, I would assume that the birthrate drops as the next generation gets assimilated and educated. The question is how many Orthodox groups there are that refuse to get assimilated and how many new immigrants are coming in.

That's the point, even among the most orthodox muslims birthrates usually quickly drop, since even most of the fundamentalists consider birth control acceptable.

ETA: I mean as a religious matter, not necessarily culturally.

[Merentha]

Emm, despite all fuckedupness of Iran, public driving for women is and always was legal in the country.

My apologies, I was distracted. Saudi Arabia.

[mormont]

[nitpick] Surely, by definition, you can't have a 'de facto' official language? To actually be official, it has to be de jure. [/nitpick]

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Mormont,

Thank you for illustrating the point.