Is ASoIaF the greatest series ever written?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Tolkien writing about sex would be boring.guy prolly died without giving or receiving oral.

Tolkien did write about sex, both implicitly (see Aldarion and Erendis), and explictly (see Laws and Customs of the Eldar, plus that letter where he suggests than men are naturally promiscuous).

Anyway, no, ASOIAF is not the greatest series ever written.

[Nearly Headless Ned]

Am I the only one here who think Feast and Dance are better books than first three?

It's lonely isn't it. Feast is my personal favourite. The writing has that wistful style he employed when writing his sf short stories, like 'A Song For Lya' but without sounding like a lovelorn teen (Dying Of The Light). The early books whilst addictive and gripping lacked the lyrical style he sometimes employs and that I particularly enjoy.

Dance contains the best of ASOIAF (Ramsay as Gilles De Rais, armies freezing to death, Tyrions A Dwarfs Progress) and the worst (All the bloody Mereen chapters, except of course for Barristans little scrap at the end). Not really sure where I rank Dance to be honest.

[wolverine]

Feast is still my least favorite and was on my only re-read of the series before Dance.

[Buster]

Wow. The replies here have really made me realise how inexperienced and ignorant I am when it comes to rating and discussing literature. A Storm of Swords is my favourite book and that isn't saying much when the only other fantasy novels I can remember reading are Tolkien, Abercrombie and Rowling. I need to stop spending all my free time gaming and start catching up on all the great literature I've missed. TO THE RECCOMENDATIONS THREADS.

[Francis Buck]

I think that AFFC and ADWD are not half as bad as some claim them to be, only their pacing in slower and there is not that many battles and action going on.

They also, combined, have virtually no resolution to ANY of the storylines. Now, that's not especially terrible for someone like me, who was able to read the series straight through, but if you've been waiting for five or ten years I can see how fucking annoying it would be. All the other books, while being open-ended, still had a feeling of closure to the most of the characters' arcs.

[DaveSumm]

I don't think it's inconsistent to say that Feast/Dance were the best written, but the most damaging, to the series. Simply because of structure. Take the northern chapters from Dance, the resolving chapters from Winds, and stick that in a book and you've easily got a contender for best book of the series.

[dietl]

The only storylines where I had a feeling of closure where Eddards and Robbs arcs.

[Gigei]

One name: Ursula K. Le Guin

Last year. I don't think it's recent emotions.

And I hardly see how you can place Douglas Adams on the same pedestal as Martin.

Agreed. Douglas Adams is so much better.

And why is LotR naive because there is no sex in it? Just because it's not graphically portrayed doesn't mean there is no sex. There are plenty of married and engaged couples. They have sex. I don't wanna hear about Bilbo's "fat pink mast" (that's what you call the best writing, ever?) ...

[Eponine]

One name: Ursula K. Le Guin

Her standalones are some of my favorite books, but I've noticed that a lot of people treat Earthsea the way I'm currently treating ASOIAF - like the last two books don't exist.

The discussion for best series really opens up when you start ignoring books. I really like Stephen King's Dark Tower... except for books 2-7.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

No, you pointed me to a thread full of people who don't understand the sense in which Martin was using "sergeant" (i.e. its historical context).

You're clutching at straws, and I have no idea why you're doing it. Probably something to do with the general impression (conveyed in the first few replies to the OP) that only an ignoramus or a neophyte could possibly say with a straight face that Martin is top of the pile.

The issue with the word "serjeant" isn't that it was used incorrectly - it absolutely wasn't. It's also appropriate to the story and setting. The issue is that we have NEVER seen them mentioned in the series and suddenly they're everywhere. Much like the game of cyvasse, niello inlays, neeps to eat, half a groat, nipples on a breastplate, nuncles, "leal" servants, etc.

These combined are certainly not enough to sway my opinion of the series, or (I presume) any serious fan's. In fact, of all of those only "nuncle" actually bothered me. But they are idiosyncrasies in GRRM's writing, imperfections. I say this only to tell you that there's no point defending this, it's well-known around here. GRRM is not perfect.

I have to second a suggestion from earlier. You have been a member here for a month. Go and read all of the theories and such in the book threads - most of us started out that way. Then read a lot more genre. Maybe your opinion will change, maybe it won't. ASOIAF is still in my top 5 fantasy series - hell, top 5 of any series - but it's no longer #1 (that would now be Bakker).

ADWD is brilliant. The only thing wrong with it is that it's too short. (Well, ok, niello.) Haters gonna hate.

This, plus the Theon chapters.

I think that AFFC and ADWD are not half as bad as some claim them to be, only their pacing in slower and there is not that many battles and action going on.

Y'all are marvelous. I thought ADWD and AFFC were awesome except for some parts that dragged (Meereen, anything to do with the Iron Isles, freakin nuncle). Definitely as good as or better than AGOT but probably not as good as ASOS.

Except for the Theon chapters in ADWD. Those might be the best chapters the man has written in the whole series.

[Zach H]

I'd go with Gormenghast. Or maybe Stover's Caine books if you want to differentiate between greatest and personal favorite.

[Melonica Stormborn]

A Song of Ice and Fire is a personal favorite for me. It's kind of hard to find something I like better in the fantasy genre. That said, I'm not really comfortable considering it one of the best. I mentioned it before in another thread last year - this series is almost great, but seems to be one step below greatness.

In any case, I'm not big on fantasy before ASOIAF and I've definitely read better non-fantasy ones based on writing style alone. Due to the boards, I've discovered many others like Abercrombie books and even Wheel of Time (Wheel of Time is far from the best but is very entertaining, at least as far as I've read).

[Gigei]

Her standalones are some of my favorite books, but I've noticed that a lot of people treat Earthsea the way I'm currently treating ASOIAF - like the last two books don't exist.

Original trilogy ftw. Ahem, I kid. The chronologically last book is the greatest and has soothed my worry over the land of the dead.

Not fun if everyone ends up in that dead land. The last book fixes that.

Though my faves are her short stories.

It's strange but on re-reading it, I realized that Kingkiller has a lot of similarities with Earthsea.

Not that anyone cares but I personally think ASoIaF cannot be considered the greatest because it's not finished.

[Gigei]

sorry double post.

[Faint]

Am I the only one here who think Feast and Dance are better books than first three?

You are not the only one, as I too share that sentiment, but it does seem to be a minority view. I am curious to know though, how much of the disdain for the books can be marked down to external circumstances and how much of it can be attributed to the books themselves.

Would A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons be considered the lesser books in the series had they been released in 2002 and 2004, respectively?

The Jon/Mel chapters are the best at the Wall chapters of any ASOIAF novel, imho.

:agree:

[awesome possum]

Ask again when the series is finished in 2033

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

You are not the only one, as I too share that sentiment, but it does seem to be a minority view. I am curious to know though, how much of the disdain for the books can be marked down to external circumstances and how much of it can be attributed to the books themselves.

Would A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons be considered the lesser books in the series had they been released in 2002 and 2004, respectively?

Leah Butler, the woman who did the WOT reread blog at tor.com, had a theory that the book most hated by any given reader in a series is the first one they had to wait a long time for. A variant of that theory is probably applicable here.

[Faint]

Leah Butler, the woman who did the WOT reread blog at tor.com, had a theory that the book most hated by any given reader in a series is the first one they had to wait a long time for. A variant of that theory is probably applicable here.

There are legitimate reasons why many readers would not enjoy A Feast for Crows as much as the other books in the series; it is, after all, missing the three main characters. But even saying that, I remain convinced the delay did not help matters. The same applies to A Dance with Dragon when it comes to the long delay, with the added misfortune of bearing the burden of readers growing increasingly disenchanted with Essos.

[Sci-2]

Ask again when the series is finished in 2033

My money is the final book, Volume 9, gets released in 2037.

[Errant Bard]

Would A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons be considered the lesser books in the series had they been released in 2002 and 2004, respectively?

I think so. Maybe to a lesser extent, but there is no denying that they come after a very strong book in term of action and plot resolution, and are mostly, objectively, transition books (though AFFC more than ADWD) with a weak narrative structure and a lot of meandering.

Personally, I love AFFC (mostly, it's still not the tightest book around) yet I could not finish a cursory reread of ADWD... Because of Tyrion, mostly, and the sucky writing of Essos.