No Mercy Trailer

[Jon Sn0w]

Not sure since i have not read every post in this thread but i am wondering if everyone is taking into account that storm of swords is being split into two seasons. so this is what i think. Im thinking we will see the rw in season 3 and pw in season 4. More then likely have the lead up to the pw at the last episode. I can't remember off the top of my head if there was really anything else as big as those two points in the book, to have both happen in the first half doesn't make sense to me, where as to split them up would. I think it would be too much at once and then nothing at the end.

[bardgal]

I feel like quoting Ted here: "I guess I should remind myself again", since I was the one who came up with that saying in the first place.

http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4173763

I remember, which is why I keep using it! It's frakkin BRILLIANT! Thank you for coming up with it! :bowdown: It's the perfect way to describe it.

EDIT - I now haz a big sad that this board doesn't like Mac characters, and it can't see the GIANT HEART/Cubed I tried to post.

:crying:

unCat first appears to the reader at the end of book 3... unCat is born a few days after the RW. A few days is less than a week, which means it happens before the PW.

The finale episode title is called 'mother' or whatever that word is translates to mother. That is a shred of evidence in favor of it. This season is a ton of double meaning title episodes...

Exactly. But then Cersei losing it over the PW would also fit Mysha quite nicely. It would be a nice trio of Mom events.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Exactly. But then Cersei losing it over the PW would also fit Mysha quite nicely. It would be a nice trio of Mom events.

Who are you trying to convince? The problem is, this season has been shot already. I think the PW would have been a good end to this season, but not with the RW at episode 9. At this point all we can do is pray that it happens, if we want it to.

[bardgal]

Not sure since i have not read every post in this thread but i am wondering if everyone is taking into account that storm of swords is being split into two seasons. so this is what i think. Im thinking we will see the rw in season 3 and pw in season 4. More then likely have the lead up to the pw at the last episode. I can't remember off the top of my head if there was really anything else as big as those two points in the book, to have both happen in the first half doesn't make sense to me, where as to split them up would. I think it would be too much at once and then nothing at the end.

ASOS is one ZOMFG moment after another. In Chronological order:

- Dany ship, Astapor, Unsullied

- Ramsey rapes Lady Hornwood

- Yunkai yields

- Dany dead kids on way to Meereen/Takes Meereen

- Jamie escapes Riverrun

- Arya escapes Harrenhall

- Robb takes the Craig, confines Cat

- Davos on rock/rescued

- Bran and Rickon split

- Arya meets Anguy/Hangs w/BWB

- Davos in cell

- Leeches

- Others attack fist/Sam sends ravens

- Jon meets Mance

- Jamie loses hand

- Arya High Heart

- Sam the Slayer

- Sansa + Margaery = BFF / plot to marry Willis

- Jon counts giants

- Sansa surprise wedding

- Hound's trial

- Sam at Crasters

- Balon Greyjoy dead

- Hoster Tully dead

- Aeron Greyjoy (AFFC/ADWD events start parallelling here)

- Jamie bath/ arrives Harrenhall/Leaves/goes back for BEAR

- Arya/Sandor on the road

- Jon scales the Wall

- Sam flees Crasters / meets CH

- Raven arrives KL about Other's attack at Fist

- Tyrion meets RV

- Cat /Robb arrive Twins

- Arya / Hound arrive Twins

- RW

- Queensmoot

- Nymeria drags Cat out of River

- News of RW in KL

- Kingsmoot

- Queenscrown

- PW

- Tyrion jailed

- Sansa escapes

- Jamie/Brienne arrive KL

- Tyrion trial

- RV + Mountain demises

- Davos helps Edric/news of PW

- Jon back at Wall

- Brienne + Pod quest for Sansa

- Jamie/Tyrion's escape - Cersei fucked everyone

- Shea&Tywin die

- Varys helps Tryion escape

- Tywin funeral

- Merret hanged by LS

- Moletown burns/Aemon sends ravens

- Sansa/LF head to Eyrie

- Arya into Hell's Heart I Stab Stab Stab Thee

- Jon first wildling battle at the Wall/Ygritte dies

- Tommen/Margaery wedding

- Jon in Jail

- Stannis arrives Wall

- Jon elected LC

I'm not sure where the ADWD events actually fit, so they aren't even listed, but they start happening right after Hosters death in the timeline.

My point is, season 4 is going to be filled with more things than season 3 (even if the PW ends up being this season) due to the overlapping events from AFFC/ADWD, which they've already said multiple times that people need to stop thinking in terms of book, and think in terms of events, and how best to tell the story chronologically.

[Born Yesterday]

Regarding the "Talisa is a spy" speculation, I find it possible, but I wouldn't like it. I understand how it could work from a storytelling point of view, but dear god, the "lying temptress who seduces the hero to his doom" cliché is one I could do without. If Talisa is a spy, that also makes her a vamp. How... obsolete.

[sorry for linking TV Tropes (ugh), wikipedia failed me here. It's a term associated most with early Hollywood - Marlene Dietrich, Theda Bara, that sort of stuff.]

[Newstar]

My point is, season 4 is going to be filled with more things than season 3 (even if the PW ends up being this season) due to the overlapping events from AFFC/ADWD, which they've already said multiple times that people need to stop thinking in terms of book, and think in terms of events, and how best to tell the story chronologically.

That's true, but the showrunners also made specific reference in a recent interview to not wanting to cram too many events too close together or else they would lose their impact.

[six]

What's wrong with linking TV Tropes? :P

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Talisa was a spy, but actually falls for Robb in the end. It's cliche, but since their love story is cliche, it would be fitting. Not that I would like it, mind you.

[Chuck88]

I think bringing her to the RW will add some additional weight to the tragedy, whether they kill her off or send her north as a replacement 'fake Arya'. But I've said it before and I'll say it again. Talisa being a spy would kill the show. And that's coming from someone who thinks the show has been pretty much perfect so far.

She would instantly become the most antagonized character in the series. I have no problem with non-canon characters and I'm actually a big fan of Talisa. But arguably the most significant moment in the whole story should not be altered in such a drastic way. It would undermine the significance and weight of every other villain on the show. But it would insult Martin's work and insult the viewers and readers alike.

As many have said though, it's highly unlikely.

[King of the Road]

Personally I think Talisa being a spy would be a good twist.

[PatrickStormborn]

Talisa as a spy would be an awful twist and would completely undermine Roose Bolton's betrayal.

[Loras]

Talisa as a spy would be an awful twist and would completely undermine Roose Bolton's betrayal.

And also undermine the entire 'King In The North' storyline.

I also don't think they would have enough time to pull this off convincingly in the show.

[Carne]

I've seen a lot of speculation regarding the Slayer scene and people who think it will happen early.

Ross Mullan who played the White Walker in the season 2 finale tweeted that it's him in the trailers (the WW walking through the woods) and according to his CV he was directed by Michelle MacLaren, so episode 7 or 8.

Also, Burn Gorman as a Night's Watchman on the left.

[Crown]

Also, Burn Gorman as a Night's Watchman on the left.

Wasn't he speculated to play Coldhands?

[Abaddon]

UnCat happens at the end of book 4, but no one is doubting we'll see that, even though there is not one shred of evidence to be found. Why is is so hard to accept the possibility of the PW happening this season too?

Because it's one quick scene, as opposed to 3-4 (long) chapters in the book? Seriously, comparing these two events with regards to how long it would take to shoot them and how big in scope they are is ludicrous. I agree that the timing argument is meaningless, though.

The only way the PW is in this season is D&D shat the bed. If they had planned it to be in originally and had allocated time for it, sure. If it is in this season it's going to be like the show HoTU vs the book version, but without any valid reason for it, since unlike the HoTU the PW from the books is just begging to be done the same on TV. A PW in this season, with the time that will be available (not much), would be so diminished from the original we might as well start calling it something completely different.

[EDIT] I should add, a lot of people doubt we will see UnCat at the end of this season, since in the book it is the very last chapter. I think and hope we'll see UnCat to end this season and the PW early (Ep3-ish) in S4.

[Loras]

I've seen a lot of speculation regarding the Slayer scene and people who think it will happen early.

Ross Mullan who played the White Walker in the season 2 finale tweeted that it's him in the trailers (the WW walking through the woods) and according to his CV he was directed by Michelle MacLaren, so episode 7 or 8.

Also, Burn Gorman as a Night's Watchman on the left.

I actually really like the change of it happening later. We have already seen a White Walker take one of Craster's sons so the idea that they would stalk Sam and Gilly to take another one is deliciously creepy. It would also allow the presence of the WWs to be felt further into S3 than they would be if the slaying happened early.

Because it's one quick scene, as opposed to 3-4 (long) chapters in the book? Seriously, comparing these two events with regards to how long it would take to shoot them and how big in scope they are is ludicrous. I agree that the timing argument is meaningless, though.

[EDIT] I should add, a lot of people doubt we will see UnCat at the end of this season, since in the book it is the very last chapter. I think and hope we'll see UnCat to end this season and the PW early (Ep3-ish) in S4.

I think one of the main reasons people are expecting UnCat this season is that it fits very well with the ongoing stories contained within the season - the Brotherhood and the Red Wedding. Bookending the season with the undead would also be a nice touch.

[Jon Snow eats wild beaver]

That trailer is good. Then it ended and I clicked on School of Thrones. It's even better!

[bardgal]

Because it's one quick scene, as opposed to 3-4 (long) chapters in the book?

Nope. I didn't say nor infer that.

Seriously, comparing these two events with regards to how long it would take to shoot them and how big in scope they are is ludicrous.

No idea who is comparring them in that way, or why you would go there.

D and D can make any scene as short or expanded as they want really. But as for a 3rd wedding (the 5th in the series so far), even the Dothraki wedding didn't take up much actual screen time, and it was pretty epic in scope.

The PW will be the 3rd within a month, and within a week of the RW, in Westeros Standard Time. How many big wedding scenes do you think the show needs to have? I honestly don't think, even if they wait until season 4, that all three weddings get the same screen-time, especially the last one. The things that happen leading up to it, Sansa getting ready/Joffrey slashing the book, will take up very little screen time, and having already had two other weddings within a short space of time, there really doesn't need to be a lot of time spent on it. It can be DeMille in scope without dragging on for an entire episode. What would the action be? (I cannot see HBO being allowed to use DOG v PIG jousting.) It's not like those chapters are very long.

I agree that the timing argument is meaningless, though.

That was my point. :D

The only way the PW is in this season is D&D shat the bed.

The only reason the PW is saved for next season is to guarantee a greenlight for season 4 from HBO, which hasn't happened yet. YAY! Hyperbole for everyone!

If they had planned it to be in originally and had allocated time for it, sure. If it is in this season it's going to be like the show HoTU vs the book version, but without any valid reason for it, since unlike the HoTU the PW from the books is just begging to be done the same on TV. A PW in this season, with the time that will be available (not much), would be so diminished from the original we might as well start calling it something completely different.

Again, I don't think the PW is going to take up the screen time you think it will. It's just a wedding and part of a feast, followed by an arrest. The Big Detailed Chaos comes afterwards. Of course, they might go with the wedding being a long thing and more of Joffrey prepping, just like what happens with everyone who's ever filmed their wedding and has on DVD at home, but I just don't think even 30min of PW would make for very compelling television.

As for the HoU, I just rewatched it for the (bazillionth?) time, and for the first time I just watched it, and didn't allow my sadness of what isn't there, cloud my judgement, and WOW, there's a TON of info there:

• KL is a burned-out ruin, along the lines of Harrenhall. (Dragons.)
  

• KL is a uselss husk and therefore, unimportant.
  

• (Jon) Snow on the Iron Throne
  

• Dany reaches for, but doesn't touch The Iron Throne - it will never be her's (directly), she has more important things to attend to (those she loves.)
  

• Dany must go beyond The Wall to find her Sun(Son)-and-Stars (Jon)
  

• Dany's Sun/Son-and-Stars is not dead, though many believe him to be. (Jon.) (Also she believes she is now unable to have a child.... but really can, as long as she finds Jon, north of The Wall.)
  

• Is that the state Dany will find Jon (the rightful heir to the the 7K) in when she arrives? (Gods, I hope not. I need more Jon than that.)
  

• "Until the Sun rises in the West, and sets in the East, until the rivers run dry, and the mountains blow like leaves in the wind...." kind of describes the frozen tundra of the north polar region (where every direction is south so east and west are wherever you really want them to be, the sun never sets or rises in summer, the rivers are dry with ice, and there is nothing but mountains of blowing snow.)

  
  

[EDIT] I should add, a lot of people doubt we will see UnCat at the end of this season, since in the book it is the very last chapter. I think and hope we'll see UnCat to end this season and the PW early (Ep3-ish) in S4.

I also hope we get UnCat this season.

[bardgal]

Who are you trying to convince? The problem is, this season has been shot already. I think the PW would have been a good end to this season, but not with the RW at episode 9. At this point all we can do is pray that it happens, if we want it to.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Why the hell would you say that? You're the only one who is allowed to speculate around here?

I have no idea what is in, or not in season 3, other than what can be inferred from the trailers. And neither do YOU.

Yes, I'm aware the entire season has been in the can for months. So what? What does that have to do with what I said?

I'm baffled that so many people around here are convinced as if they know for a fact, to the extent that they work on the show.... that there's no way in hell the PW will be in this season, to the extent anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest must be the stupidest creatures to ever breathe the same air. It's like we're denying the Earth is round. Is your head going to explode if the PW actually happens this season?

The fact is, you don't know. It could very well be in season frakking FIVE for all anyone who doesn't work on the show knows. In fact, the PW MAY NEVER HAPPEN EVER. HBO hasn't even greenlit season 4, so if they pull the plug and pass, and the PW isn't this season, then the PW won't be in season 4 either.

You don't know. But the disrespectful, condescending way some of you treat others who like to WONDER, gods forbid, on these boards, what may or may not happen this season because NONE OF US KNOW, and it's FUN to speculate, is rude, and uncalled for.

[Conchobar]

Talisa as a spy would be an awful twist and would completely undermine Roose Bolton's betrayal.

I agree with Paddy.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Some people just can't help but play the victim...