New Ratings Record for the Premiere

[Stannis the Wight]

People might be disillusioned by not only Ned dying, but Robb and Cat dying as well. Some could see it as jumping the shark, if they aren't acquainted with the books. I'm probably wrong though. After all, Fire and Blood drew season high ratings, and it was the episode after Ned's death.

Mayhaps an adaptation of PW in episode 10 to smooth things out a bit ?

[The Anti-Targ]

People might be disillusioned by not only Ned dying, but Robb and Cat dying as well. Some could see it as jumping the shark, if they aren't acquainted with the books. I'm probably wrong though. After all, Fire and Blood drew season high ratings, and it was the episode after Ned's death.

I think the only things that would start to turn the audience off would be too many faux deaths. Creating dramatic tension under false pretenses gets pretty tiresome pretty fast. Dany in S1, then Davos in S2 followeed by Sam in the very next episode, people were happy to see them alive no doubt, but we really don't want too many more of these types of cliff hangers.

[PatrickStormborn]

People might be disillusioned by not only Ned dying, but Robb and Cat dying as well. Some could see it as jumping the shark, if they aren't acquainted with the books. I'm probably wrong though. After all, Fire and Blood drew season high ratings, and it was the episode after Ned's death.

Eh, I don't think viewers care enough about Robb or Cat to really be affected by the Red Wedding (and I'm starting to believe that they won't even kill Cat). It will mostly be sad because of Arya IMO. Ned's death was a completely different matter - he was the "main" character at that point and he was probably the most popular character on the show.

[Padraig]

...

I'm pretty sure there are many Robb and Cat supporters. Even if it isn't for the characters themselves, but because they support the Starks and Cat/Robb are the head of that family. And the RW wasn't so disturbing because of Robb's death. It was the brutal way it happened. That's why D&D have always waxed lyrical about it. That's why it can be compared to Ned's death. Ned's character was bigger but the scale of the event was smaller.

I see no evidence to suggest that Cat will survive beyond her unCat persona.

Faux deaths are difficult to manage since they are the norm in TV. I think they only become an issue if you always threaten deaths but never deliver. That isn't an issue for this show.

[PatrickStormborn]

I'm pretty sure there are many Robb and Cat supporters. Even if it isn't for the characters themselves, but because they support the Starks and Cat/Robb are the head of that family. And the RW wasn't so disturbing because of Robb's death. It was the brutal way it happened. That's why D&D have always waxed lyrical about it. That's why it can be compared to Ned's death. Ned's character was bigger but the scale of the event was smaller.

I see no evidence to suggest that Cat will survive beyond her unCat persona.

Faux deaths are difficult to manage since they are the norm in TV. I think they only become an issue if you always threaten deaths but never deliver. That isn't an issue for this show.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Robb and Cat. I think both characters have been totally destroyed by HBO - Robb acts like a petulant child, and Catelyn has lost most of her best qualities from the books.

Recently D&D said they "wouldn't rule out" the idea that a character who dies in the books survives the season. Obviously that means that one of the characters who dies in the time-span the season is covering will not die. Who can that be but Catelyn?

[cybobbie]

Well it's hard to guess what will happen after the events

of the RW, since most of the comments that I listen from my friends that watch the show but didn't read the books regarding favorite characters are about Tyrion, Arya and Dany, as they didn't get much into the King of the North and Cat. But again they are Starks, so I see some people getting upset but not enough to quit the show, I mean there's lots more in there! It's funny because I know one person, that while reading the book quit it after Robb's death, because she got so upset and he was her favorite character. However, I believe that she will start reading them again, because since the premiere she started to ask more how much we enjoyed the following books.

[boojam]

Faux deaths are difficult to manage since they are the norm in TV. I think they only become an issue if you always threaten deaths but never deliver. That isn't an issue for this show.

I think I know what you mean by 'Faux' deaths... but I don't know what George intends, but by the end of ADwD he has enough prime character (many have been there since novel 1), introducing new major characters , as replacements, at this stage in the story is going start causing narrative chaos.

[Abaddon]

Obviously that means [...]

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

[libertine]

Well, as to the previous posts about the series becoming bigger and bigger (in terms of ratings), i can add that it has become super big in Europe, too. I'm from Germany and we don't have HBO. But Game of Thrones is the main reason for lots of people i know to get the premium channel that shows it here. And there has never been any show here, about which people talked nearly as much ...

Like others, I have some concerns about the future of the show, despite all the success. I am pretty sure that season 3 and 4 will be a big success. But I have no Idea how they will manage to narrate the story as it becomes more and more complex.

With all the new Characters being Introduced (Greyjoys, Martells, Tyrion in Essos), there will be just too much to cover for a TV Series. The big problem is FFC and DWD taking part at the same time. They can't make a whole season without showing Tyrion & Dany, so they will have to improvise somehow. And I believe that -starting with season 5- lots of non-readers will stop watching, simply because it just becomes way too complex. Well, I hope for the best, but I just can't see, how they are gonna make that happen...

[libertine]

-double post-

[PatrickStormborn]

I do not think this word means what you think it means.

What a useless reply. It didn't challenge my post/assumption based on logic at all but still attempted to discredit it.

D&D have said one character who dies in the books will live. That would be a really stupid comment to make if they just meant that some characters who die at the end of the book survive the season because they'll die in season 4 instead. So, logically, it means that a character who dies during the events they're adapting this season will live.

It seems pretty obvious to me.

Combined with the fact that they've completely destroyed Catelyn's character and set her up to be far more vengeful than in the book, I'd guess that she's not dying.

[Abaddon]

What a useless reply. It didn't challenge my post/assumption based on logic at all but still attempted to discredit it.

D&D have said one character who dies in the books will live. That would be a really stupid comment to make if they just meant that some characters who die at the end of the book survive the season because they'll die in season 4 instead. So, logically, it means that a character who dies during the events they're adapting this season will live.

It seems pretty obvious to me.

Combined with the fact that they've completely destroyed Catelyn's character and set her up to be far more vengeful than in the book, I'd guess that she's not dying.

No, my post said exactly what I thought, succinctly. You are taking a hypothetical that was issued in a very broad context and saying it obviously means something specific. That is not obvious at all.

Also, you should watch your quoting of D&D. "D&D have said one character who dies in the books will live". They actually said "they could see it happening". You even quoted them earlier as saying they "wouldn't rule it out". (I don't particularly care as to the exact wording, they're similar enough). Obviously this means they haven't actually done it yet, which means it doesn't happen this season. I mean I could see arguing it the other way around personally, but if we want to call anything "obvious" it would have to be that it refers to a future hypothetical change.

Hope that helps clarify my position.

[Crown]

Eh, I don't think viewers care enough about Robb or Cat to really be affected by the Red Wedding (and I'm starting to believe that they won't even kill Cat). It will mostly be sad because of Arya IMO. Ned's death was a completely different matter - he was the "main" character at that point and he was probably the most popular character on the show.

I think 90% of the non-reading viewers want Robb on the Iron Throne, so I'm pretty sure they will be affected by the Red Wedding.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Eh, I don't think viewers care enough about Robb or Cat to really be affected by the Red Wedding (and I'm starting to believe that they won't even kill Cat). It will mostly be sad because of Arya IMO. Ned's death was a completely different matter - he was the "main" character at that point and he was probably the most popular character on the show.

Have to disagree, sorry. Robb is being built up as the de facto hero in the show, and is a stronger and more mature leader than he is in the books. If anything, the show has made him look better than the books did. In the books, he's a boy trying to be king, in the show, he's a confident, mature young man. The Starks are still the most popular family amongst viewers, and since Robb is the only likable king so far, viewers tend to root for him. He's definitely in the top 5 most popular characters on the show.

Oh, they will kill Cat. It makes no sense for her to survive the RW. And if they don't, we're devoid of the amazing epilogue.

[Faint]

I think television-only viewers will be devastated by the Red Wedding. Most, in fact, believe that Robb is the (male) hero of the story and the main Stark character given the much different role he assumes in the show compared to the books.

And as for Catelyn, I see no reason why they would not kill her off. They have a hard enough time balancing so many characters as it is (with more additions to come); they will be glad to get rid of one, if only for logistical purposes.

[Azzazel]

The people from the Unsullied thread are hoping for a Dany-Robb alliance. That's how much TV viewers like Robb and consider him the main hero.

[Pinkie Baelish]

The people from the Unsullied thread are hoping for a Dany-Robb alliance. That's how much TV viewers like Robb and consider him the main hero.

Dany uniting with Robb to defeat the Lannisters was my prediction before I read the books. Oh, how naive I was...

[Padraig]

No, my post said exactly what I thought, succinctly. You are taking a hypothetical that was issued in a very broad context and saying it obviously means something specific. That is not obvious at all.

Yes. As part of a larger interview, D&D were asked about killing characters that were still alive in the books and as a follow on, they were asked about not killing characters that were dead in the books. It was an obvious enough question as part of a broad ranging interview but I think it would be wrong to jump to definite conclusions based on that.

D&D seem to love the RW episode. I can't see them undermining that by leaving Cat alive. I suspected that Robb would die when reading the book originally but I never expected that Cat would also die. That is what really shocked me. That and the scale of the event. And besides, making her more vengeful makes sense in the context of unCat. It will set that up perfectly. [/spoilers]

I think the show has suggested there are a few heros. Jon and Robb been the obvious two, although Jon has probably been given a greater role. And then we have Dany. So Robb is up there, if not maybe the biggest hero.

But I have no Idea how they will manage to narrate the story as it becomes more and more complex.

They are just going to make more changes to the story than in seasons 1-4. They have said that the scope wouldn't get broader than in S3 but then in S3 we are probably already going to spend some time on the Ironborn. So saying the scope wouldn't get broader doesn't mean that the Ironborn will be dropped.

Some things can be dropped from future seasons and

the RW does kill off one major thread in this story, so that helps the scope question straight away.

I don't know what George intends, but by the end of ADwD he has enough prime character (many have been there since novel 1), introducing new major characters , as replacements, at this stage in the story is going start causing narrative chaos.

Sorry. I'm not sure I follow. I don't expect GRRM or D&D to have to introduce new major characters after aDwD? GRRM has also said that the scope has to narrow from now on. D&D are just going to start narrowing it earlier.

[rumple9]

I think the only things that would start to turn the audience off would be too many faux deaths. Creating dramatic tension under false pretenses gets pretty tiresome pretty fast. Dany in S1, then Davos in S2 followeed by Sam in the very next episode, people were happy to see them alive no doubt, but we really don't want too many more of these types of cliff hangers.

I agree - the faux deaths turned me off the books somewhat. Youre also forgetting the faux death of Kat, Brienne, Beric Dondarrion, The Hound maybe not dead and The Mountain appears to turn up in ADWD. No doubt Jon will come back to life. People get rezzed in these books likes its World of Warcraft!

This is how Winds of Winter ends .http://uk.images.sea...fp-t-702-s[/img]

[Padraig]

I agree - the faux deaths turned me off the books somewhat. Youre also forgetting the faux death of Kat, Beric Dondarrion and no doubt Jon will come back to life. People get rezzed in these books likes its World of Warcraft!

This is how Winds of Winter ends .http://uk.images.sea...fp-t-702-s[/img]

At least Beric does die eventually. And even Cat, I treat her return differently than say Davos or Jaime at the end of aCoK. unCat is not Cat.

.