[Book Spoilers] So The Boy Won....

[go joff go]

"Deepwood Motte?"

" LOL TERRIBLE GUESS!"

You know whats so great about that line, is that quite a few bookreaders speculated last episode thats where they were going from the preview. Its almost like the writers were psychic about what people would think

[The Anti-Targ]

Time to put a fork in this story line. Next episode has another scene. I just want Ramsey to name himself, and for Theon to get his new name, then we can leave them until it's time for Ramsey to set himself up in Winterfell and marry fake Arya; in Season 5.

[tmug]

Theon. Poor Theon.

If he was so well informed about the Houses of the North, why wouldn't he have guessed the Dreadfort? House Bolton? The House that waves a banner with a man being tortured on an X.

Maybe there are hundreds of houses out there...

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Time to put a fork in this story line. Next episode has another scene. I just want Ramsey to name himself, and for Theon to get his new name, then we can leave them until it's time for Ramsey to set himself up in Winterfell and marry fake Arya; in Season 5.

Yes. What's the point of watching Theon get tortured for two seasons?

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm wondering if Ramsay's long intro means he's going to have pretty prominent role. Like, they haven't shown other "side villains" very much. Maybe Ramsay's going to be the type of villain who always dodges the bullet -- in TWOW/ADOS I mean.

[King in the North Carolina]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Iwan is an actual torturer and not an actor. He probably has no idea that he's even on a tv show.

Creepy, creepy dude.

[Randyll Tarly]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that Iwan is an actual torturer and not an actor. He probably has no idea that he's even on a tv show.

Creepy, creepy dude.

Thus, earning his rank as the great choice for portraying my dear "Boy". His look reminds me of the Killing Joke in a way...

[Randyll Tarly]

Yes. What's the point of watching Theon get tortured for two seasons?

Probably we will be seeing Theon acting as the messenger boy to all the Iron Islanders in the North of a "peace" treaty.

[lostinwesteros]

Time to put a fork in this story line. Next episode has another scene. I just want Ramsey to name himself, and for Theon to get his new name, then we can leave them until it's time for Ramsey to set himself up in Winterfell and marry fake Arya; in Season 5.

My thoughts exactly. And while we're at it, I'd like to cut Mel out of this thing, too. Pick her up at the Wall.

Theon. Poor Theon.

If he was so well informed about the Houses of the North, why wouldn't he have guessed the Dreadfort? House Bolton? The House that waves a banner with a man being tortured on an X.

Maybe there are hundreds of houses out there...

That's something that has always bothered me...When Ramsay originally 'set Theon loose', he told him to ride east. Where in the world did Theon think he was to start with if riding east would take him to Deepwood Motte?

[Mr Smith]

Time to put a fork in this story line. Next episode has another scene. I just want Ramsey to name himself, and for Theon to get his new name, then we can leave them until it's time for Ramsey to set himself up in Winterfell and marry fake Arya; in Season 5.

I seriously don't know how you can say this. For a start, we haven't had episode after episode of Theon being tortured, he's only even featured in 4! First episode: we see him tortured but we have no idea what's going on. Second episode: we see him rescued by Ramsay, twice, who at this point is looking to the non book readers like a real badass. Third episode: we get some really good heartfelt moments from Theon before the rug is pulled out from under us. This episode: we see Ramsay's sadism for the first time. There's a lot of stuff they can still pull from the book without it just being endless torture scenes, and I've really loved what they've done with this arc. Keep it up I say!

An aside: I actually totally missed the "fucking horn-blower" reference, good pick guys.

Another aside: the original pink and red of house bolton were unrealistic and would have looked ridiculous on screen. I'm glad they've changed them.

[Minsc]

I seriously don't know how you can say this. For a start, we haven't had episode after episode of Theon being tortured, he's only even featured in 4!

There has been only six episodes, he has had equal screen time with Dany. Don't get me wrong Theon is my favorite character and I love Alfie Allen, however I don't want to see him being brutally tortured every week nor do I want to see some of the more vicious acts against him.

[SOSRadio]

Just made the connection with the "fucking horn blower!"

Man, Ramsay's been screwing with Theon since before they even met. :lol:

[Stannis the Wight]

Loved this scene. Everything about it.

[The Anti-Targ]

I seriously don't know how you can say this. For a start, we haven't had episode after episode of Theon being tortured, he's only even featured in 4! First episode: we see him tortured but we have no idea what's going on. Second episode: we see him rescued by Ramsay, twice, who at this point is looking to the non book readers like a real badass. Third episode: we get some really good heartfelt moments from Theon before the rug is pulled out from under us. This episode: we see Ramsay's sadism for the first time. There's a lot of stuff they can still pull from the book without it just being endless torture scenes, and I've really loved what they've done with this arc. Keep it up I say!

An aside: I actually totally missed the "fucking horn-blower" reference, good pick guys.

Actually there's nothing they can pull from the book, because Theon is entirely absent until we catch up with him as the fully (de)formed Reek. For TV show purposes we need to see the breaking of Theon about as much as we needed to see Joff shooting crossbow bolts into Ros; which is to say not at all. Sufficient to see the end result. Episode 1 could have simply been a scene where Ramsey is actually named and the torture begins. Then we are left wondering what becomes of Theon throughout the season. Episode 10 could have been a decrepit Theon with missing teeth and fingers, eating a rat in a dimly lit dungeon and us hearing his new name "Hello my Reek!", "Hello master." The imagination of the viewer can fill in the blanks.

[Gendels Children]

Yep. The fact that they made the flayed man sigil SOOO obvious in the Jaime, Brienne scene (in my opinion. Look at how much of the shots of Jaime and Brienne it takes up) and Theon has been on that cross for so long shows that they are really hoping that people will start to pick up on things...

And then they add in the horn and hopefully, HOPEFULLY, there are some genius unsullied out there. Honestly the clues are ALL THERE at this point, in my opinion. With this episode they gave you everything you need.

Sigil+Theon=connection to boltons

Theon was knocked out, so he couldn't have burned Winterfell.

Ramsay+hornblower= Bolton burning of Winterfell.

It's quite a simple deduction when you put it that way.

your very right, your have said exactly what i wanted to, so thank you, and damb you for beating me ;D

Did they mess with the Bolton colors tho? Aren't they red and pink but the show has a blue background behind the flayed man? I hope I saw that wrong. Minor point I know but dammnit I loved that the Boltons rocked the pink capes.

Haha I thought it was the Tully banner too when that dude Locke first captured Brienne & Jamie. Glad I wasn't losing my mind.

(Aside-- WHY WOULD THEY MESS WITH THE COLORS?! That's like the simplest thing to get right.)

im quite sure the did it knowing full well what the colours where meant to be. maybe they thought pink was a little to solf and would not be pulled off quite aswell for a group of dark, harsh, strong northmen. red is a much 'scarier' or more evil colour.

i am with you though, i was looking forward to the menacing pinkness of doooom!

[Gendels Children]

im very greatful they are keeping theons treatment very 'by the book' making him beg to have the limbs cut off, messing with his head, making him think he was free just to capture him again, disrupting his sleep, flaying... its all so good. i few things are different but all in all very good IMHO

[GeorgeIAF]

In the preview of the next episode we see him crawling and shouting "mercy" and "no please" while we are seeing a gelding knife, i think he's getting castrated in the next episode.

[The_Lone_Direwolf]

My sister is a total unsullied and has been trying for a few weeks to work out who 'boy' is.

I've told her there is clues everywhere and not just in the Theon scenes and even last season.

I thought a few times last night it would click, especially after the torture scene when they cut to Bolton's dinner with the sigil in the background.

Then out of no where I get a message asking if he is a Bolton, not because of the cross, the horn blowing or the flaying...

Because of the way he poured out the water in front of Theon...

She said it reminded her how Locke did that to Jamie and they are both 'hunters'.

I didn't even think of that but she is getting close.

I'm loving how Ramsey was taunting the viewer and getting them to play the game, I think Theon will find out when the viewer does and both will find out

when Ramsey wants them to.

[Alester Florent]

Yes. What's the point of watching Theon get tortured for two seasons?

A couple of reasons. It's just not acceptable in a TV show to have a major character disappear for two complete seasons. Apart from anything else, it's not practical - if they're going to keep Alfie Allen on contract then they need to give him screen time, and if they release him from contract they can't guarantee they'll get him back for season 5.

Secondly, there's the "show don't tell" rule. This is more important in a medium like TV than in books, where it's still kind of important, because we don't get the interior monologues and private thoughts and memories of a character to inform what's going on. It's dramatically more effective to show things on screen rather than just talk about them after they happen. On some occasions (major battle scenes, etc.) the budget may preclude it, but that doesn't apply here.

Third, it introduces Ramsay as a villain at an appropriate stage. We lose a lot of villains throughout next season and it's better to start building up a replacement now. Again, this is something of a show-don't-tell too: in the books we hear about Ramsay quite a while before he actually appears, which works ok on paper. Here, although he's been mentioned, the viewers really need to see him to cement him in their minds.

As for the slow reveal, well I'd have thought that's obvious. Apart from introducing tension and mystery - laudable in and of themselves, I'd have thought - it also delays the big "Boltons are evil" reveal until the Red Wedding when it's finally plain for all to see. Revealing Ramsay's identity right now would telegraph Roose's betrayal too heavily.

Apart from anything else, though, I think it's worth remembering that the Theon/Ramsay relationship in the book was actually established in a similar way - a long relationship between Theon and a vicious bastard whose actual identity was unknown, only for it to be revealed at a dramatic moment that he was in fact Ramsay. This has just shifted that a little later because the show needs some Theon scenes this season. Is the way the show is handling it any worse than the way the book did? In some ways I think it's actually a little better - I thought the reveal in the book was horribly botched.

[aFeastForDragons]

A bit of a gruesome question but why was Theon shouting "cut it off" when Ramsey was flaying him?

I thought the reason behind that was how Ramsey would flay the subjects fingers and leave them in agony until they begged him to amputate the finger. Did the writers not understand this or am I missing something.