(BOOK SPOILERS) The Rose and The Lion

[ambi76]

Here's a crackpot twist... Margaery convinces Joffrey to legitimize a bastard half-brother of hers, making him next in line after Loras. Loras can thus join the Kingsguard and avoid the Cersei marriage, without Margaery becoming the heir to Highgarden. What do you think?

Brilliant... for the Guiding Light maybe.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

(Actually, my pet theory is that Loras will hear about the propsed match with Cersei, absolutely refuse to do it, and run off to Joffrey to volunteer for the Kingsguard. Because "no man can force another man to marry," as we've been told.)

Loras has Maergery to ask Joffrey to do it: she can make him do anything she wants now.

But I doubt it. Annoying as Cersei is, he could have asked her sister to help him as soon as the marriage with Sansa was announced or hinted. The Tyrells might have their own plans about this.

[The Monkey]

Brilliant... for the Guiding Light maybe.

What's that?

[ambi76]

A popular US daily soap that ended in 2009 I think.

ETA: Kidding aside, ASOIAF/GOT has quite a bit of its own soapish elements (it's what mostly draws me to it, I have to confess) so maybe it won't be so bad.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

It's not that odd, though. Legitimize a bastard is what the Targaryens did and legitimize them to inherit something because there are no more available males (or any more children) is what Robb would be hinted to do in a few more episodes.

[The Fallen]

` I know this was asked earlier, but how is it that Tywin can compel Loras to join the Kingsguard?

The king or Hand can't force someone to join, especially the son of a Lord Paramount. Is this the show runners taking liberties?

Initially, I thought that Loras had asked to join the Kingsguard after the Blackwater and Tywin was threatening to go through with it. (I'm referring to the show).

[ambi76]

Re: Loras the heir and the kingsguard business Finn Jones might have slipped up in an

Blablabla last season Renly, Margaery, threesomes in sight and following up with (around 3:00):

"... and now he's married to a sicko/psycho(?) drunk." So yeah, an actual Loras/Cersei marriage looks less and less unlikely.

Or maybe it's just grammar fail who knows.

[ShigellaSand]

I don't think that interview is necessarily a spoiler. He's probably just speaking about the situation as of what's been aired so far. At this point, it does look like Loras is going to be saddled with a psycho wife, and if that isn't going to happen, he's not going to give that away in an interview. That would ruin the twist (whatever it might be).

Also, there's been no mention of a Cersei/Loras wedding this season (based on the previews) so the engagement may well still be on as of the last episode, and then he won't know yet whether or not it actually happens next season.

So - it may or may not happen, but I wouldn't take that interview as proof of anything.

[ambi76]

Yes, of course. Totally with you there ShigellaSand. Like I said could also be just a case of mangled grammar (is=is going to be). But it's funny to speculate.

[Golden Lion]

I liked the scene, I was too fond of some fan reactions that Olenna 'won' the argument when it ended with her caving.

I do hope Olenna will become a slightly more background character now and show loras and marg as more political figures in KL, so far it just seems like grandma tyrell pulls all the strings.

Why is Sansa the only one that seems oblivious to his sexuality?

Because Sansa is oblivious to everything. Thank the gods she's high born or she'd be dead by now.

[bobbybuilderton]

I liked the scene, I was too fond of some fan reactions that Olenna 'won' the argument when it ended with her caving.

I do hope Olenna will become a slightly more background character now and show loras and marg as more political figures in KL, so far it just seems like grandma tyrell pulls all the strings.

Because Sansa is oblivious to everything. Thank the gods she's high born or she'd be dead by now.

If she wasn't highborn she wouldn't be so oblivious. But that is a debate for another place...

[LordStoneheart]

completely off topic, but this reminds me of the Loras they're portraying on the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669gKsXn_6s

[boojam]

So what's up with the snapping of the quill? Is Loras being inducted into KG?

Yeah, I wondered that too?

A snapped quill could be an act of defiance , that's a trifle to Tywin who is not one to be out of quills!

[youdontsnowme]

All of this muddled, confusing, nonsense could have been avoided. All they had to do was introduce Willas, his reasons for not being present are perfectly fine. The man's crippled and thus remains in Highgarden, honestly, they wouldn't need to cast him, just have people talk about his actions occasionally. Some people might think that it's bad television for him not to show up, but to me it makes the world feel bigger and more alive. But no, now we've got Loras apparently being forced to join the Kingsguard? What the fuck is that. Also would Tywin be so stupid as to threaten conscripting the heir to Highgarden, you know, it's not like there his biggest and most powerful allies.

[Cas Stark]

All of this muddled, confusing, nonsense could have been avoided. All they had to do was introduce Willas, his reasons for not being present are perfectly fine. The man's crippled and thus remains in Highgarden, honestly, they wouldn't need to cast him, just have people talk about his actions occasionally. Some people might think that it's bad television for him not to show up, but to me it makes the world feel bigger and more alive. But no, now we've got Loras apparently being forced to join the Kingsguard? What the fuck is that. Also would Tywin be so stupid as to threaten conscripting the heir to Highgarden, you know, it's not like there his biggest and most powerful allies.

Exactly.

And since the marriage doesn't take place, it would be no big deal that the heir to Highgarden is off screen.

[Weeping Sore]

All of this muddled, confusing, nonsense could have been avoided. All they had to do was introduce Willas, his reasons for not being present are perfectly fine. The man's crippled and thus remains in Highgarden, honestly, they wouldn't need to cast him, just have people talk about his actions occasionally. Some people might think that it's bad television for him not to show up, but to me it makes the world feel bigger and more alive. But no, now we've got Loras apparently being forced to join the Kingsguard? What the fuck is that. Also would Tywin be so stupid as to threaten conscripting the heir to Highgarden, you know, it's not like there his biggest and most powerful allies.

What I liked about the Willas scenario, too was that it showed some growing maturity on Sansa's part. Initially dissapointed that the QoT wasn't talking about Loras, Sansa came to think wistfully about her gentle, thoughtful crippled husband and the life they would have. You actually thought for a minute that she could be happy.

[Tyrion4President]

I dont think anyone could deny that the Olenna/Tywin conversation was beautifully acted, as well as included some good conversation pacing with the Queen of Thorns being as witty as ever,

However, I am growing slightly tiresome of the Loras gay-bomb being dropped every episode. The audience has long identified Loras as homosexual, i didnt mind that the Loras/Renly relationship was only hinted at in the books, however it seems that everyone South of the Wall knows of Loras's sexual orientation. So what was your thoughts on the scene? and the portrayals of the Tyrells in general?

Just to clear things before concluding, I am no way a purist, I love the shows, Love D & D and Georgie. I Just have certain qualms regarding the show, other than that, and maybe Aidan Gillens portrayal of Littlefinger annoy me, but other than that another superb episode !

everyone knows except Sansa :lol:

[StannisandDaeny]

Loras is a dumb shit in the books, I don't see why people care about him so much and are all like 'ooh homophobia.'

They would also be Baratheons so no Tyrells anywhere anymore, that's the issue.

I have no qualms with this outcome. No more Tyrells would be the greatest change the show makers could make imo.

That said, they would be Lannisters.

[ambi76]

I have no qualms with this outcome. No more Tyrells would be the greatest change the show makers could make imo.

That said, they would be Lannisters.

Genetically Lannisters but by name Baratheons, and the potential Renly/Marg babies which we were talking about there would be Baratheons full stop.

And it's fine that you personally want the Tyrells extinct and might be even fine that D&D want them extinct for their show, but some kind of explanation for this storywise would be nice anyway. (Because like it or not as of ASOS/ASOIAF it doesn't make sense.)

[Greatnails]

Tywin says something like "The Tyrell name will fade". Does that mean that's there are no more uncles, sisters and cousins of Mace ? Like, only 5 Tyrells (if Alerie exists) ? No Garth the Gross :(

Because if they do exist, Mace just has to name a male of his family as heir. That's a shitty situation compare to the book, but way better than just go to extinction.