[Book spoilers] Northern bannermen ( or lack thereof )

[Cas Stark]

Lack of Grey Wind is the real problem for this season because since the wolf hasn't been around, it will make Grey Wind's death at the RW less tragic, or, maybe they're going to leave it out. It's bad enough that he's got his dumbass 'where is winterfell' wife sitting in on his war councils, I mean, family meetings, but his wolf is MIA with no explanation. I suppose these are nitpicks. If they show the wolf at the RW it will have an impact, but this is stuff that would be so EASY to have included all along to make this arc so much better.

[Winter In My Heart]

Lack of Grey Wind is the real problem for this season because since the wolf hasn't been around, it will make Grey Wind's death at the RW less tragic, or, maybe they're going to leave it out. It's bad enough that he's got his dumbass 'where is winterfell' wife sitting in on his war councils, I mean, family meetings, but his wolf is MIA with no explanation. I suppose these are nitpicks. If they show the wolf at the RW it will have an impact, but this is stuff that would be so EASY to have included all along to make this arc so much better.

Honestly I don't see this as nitpicking at all. No GW, a stupid ass wife, a mother who everyone treats like garbage, yeah there will totally be a huge impact at the wedding.

I don't think the scene will have nearly as much of an impact as the writers had probably hoped when they started the series. Sure people might be upset, but they've made Robb and Cat unlikable, Grey Wind isn't around (does anyone remember him?) and I seriously doubt to many people care for Talisa, Edmure, or BF. not to mention the lack of Stark loyal bannermen.

[Cas Stark]

Honestly I don't see this as nitpicking at all. No GW, a stupid ass wife, a mother who everyone treats like garbage, yeah there will totally be a huge impact at the wedding.

I don't think the scene will have nearly as much of an impact as the writers had probably hoped when they started the series. Sure people might be upset, but they've made Robb and Cat unlikable, Grey Wind isn't around (does anyone remember him?) and I seriously doubt to many people care for Talisa, Edmure, or BF. not to mention the lack of Stark loyal bannermen.

It's inexplicable, really, considering what they've said about their feelings on the RW and how much they wanted to film it. Maybe they've become overwhelmed with all the attention, multiple shoots and have lost the baseline thread of storytelling. It certainly feels to me like there is no one paying attention to even basic plot logic details or how in the hell did the Bolton colors end up being the exact same colors as the Tully colors, WTF? Stuff like this to me is simply not the same show I was watching in Season 1, I know people didn't like last year, but I find this year is more haphazard, more very strange plot decisions, bizarro dialogue like 'where is winterfell' 'can my family come to my wedding' where it seems like there is no one who knows the source material that is paying attention.

I hate that they've turned Robb into a jerk rattling around Riverrun with his wife..the army nurse...who don't know nuthin about where nuthin is in Westeros...oh well, I've ranted this rant already. It will all be over soon.

At least Kit Harrington appears to have woken up now that he's out of Iceland and maybe there is hope for that storyline to perk up, despite how drabbed up everyone has been.

[Winter In My Heart]

It's inexplicable, really, considering what they've said about their feelings on the RW and how much they wanted to film it. Maybe they've become overwhelmed with all the attention, multiple shoots and have lost the baseline thread of storytelling. It certainly feels to me like there is no one paying attention to even basic plot logic details or how in the hell did the Bolton colors end up being the exact same colors as the Tully colors, WTF? Stuff like this to me is simply not the same show I was watching in Season 1, I know people didn't like last year, but I find this year is more haphazard, more very strange plot decisions, bizarro dialogue like 'where is winterfell' 'can my family come to my wedding' where it seems like there is no one who knows the source material that is paying attention.

I hate that they've turned Robb into a jerk rattling around Riverrun with his wife..the army nurse...who don't know nuthin about where nuthin is in Westeros...oh well, I've ranted this rant already. It will all be over soon.

At least Kit Harrington appears to have woken up now that he's out of Iceland and maybe there is hope for that storyline to perk up, despite how drabbed up everyone has been.

I think it all boils down to them giving their favorites more screen time. And the fact they 'have' to give the big name actors more screen time even at the expense of other story's. I will not go on a Jon and Yigretye thing. (I know they need screen time but why have like five scenes almost every episode? I think that's a tiny bit much.)

But for real, why is Theon getting so much screen time? They could have shown him three times this season and that would have been enough I think. And why do they have to keep rehashing Tyrion and Shae arguing? We get that she's not happy and jealous.. And the fact they have to keep on and keep on with showing how horrible Joffrey is. Ugh. And Margaery.. Okay I get they want to build her character up but she doesn't need to be shown so much. Oolena gets a couple/few scenes this season and people love her. The same could have been done with Marge! So all of this nonsense gets packed in at the expense of the scene they've been wanting to do for years?

Yeah that makes so much sense!

[Ser Cookie Monster]

As a viewer, I took that as Robb pointing out how stupid the Freys really were because they were asking for something that doesn't belong to him. Just nod and agree to whatever they say, Robb would have agreed to those terms. Heck, those Freys could have asked for a dragon and out of sheer desperation Robb would have agreed. I am not even sure who Harrenhal truly belongs to, the Lannisters? Tullys? Littlefinger?

I guess it depends of how you take it. I took it as "Harrenhal? Harrenhal is not in the North. Yes, he can have it. He can have whatever hi wants of the Riverlands, it's not my Kingdom *shrug* "

As for TV Robb and his absentee bannermen, lets remember that it is what it is... TV. A 60 minute TV series that has who knows how many main characters, I doubt the average viewer is going to want or be able to take in SmallJon, Great Jon Umber, Manderly, Mormount etc. I hope some resemblance of a Northman entourage is present for the wedding. Cuts to the tents being burned with northmen inside would get the idea across. I feel like it will fair in comparison to the Season 1 Ned beheading. That was as tense of a scene i have ever seen, gutwrenching even though you knew what happens.

A 60 minutes TV series, and yet they have time for a 5:22 torture scene. They have time for Pod and his sexadventures. They have time for multiple repetitive scenes of Margaery manipulating Joff. They have time for the 100th scene of Varys and LF talking in the throne room. All that time could have been used in Robb's and Cat's storyline since they are going to DIE in episode 9. Seriously, I understand time constrains, but after seeing them waste their time like this, I just don't buy that "not enough time" bullshit excuse anymore.

They don't need to perfectly know his bannermen, just get familiar with them. More bannermen would make Robb look like he still has support, that the North is still loyal to him. It would help his cause and it would add impact to the RW. So far the only two northern bannermen that they have shown are Karstark and Bolton. Karstark betrayed him and Bolton will betray him too. It just looks like everyone betrays Robb. Like someone already said. It's going to look like Robb's bannermen and the Freys betraying him instead of the Boltons and Freys betraying the North.

Even more disappointing then the absence of Northmen is the absence of Grey Wind, or any of the Wolves i might add. Summer gets some screen time but they have written out Ghost in many scenes. Grey Wind has been all but absent since rattling Jaime in Season 2. That is what makes Robb so bad ass in the books. They couldn't have Grey Wind in the background of the hall in Riverrun at least? I am almost thinking that they might forget Grey Wind altogether for the RW. Bringing Grey Wind at Episode 9 it would be like "Oh yeah, he's got a wolf!" We get a lot of dragon it seems but very little wolf time, that is something I do not understand. The death of Grey Wind also should be shown if they want to make it more tragic, that would be hard to watch for me.

Grey Wind has appeared twice this season. One before Karstark said "you lost the war when you married that woman", and the other during Karstak's beheading. But still, that's not enough. They should show the special bond between the Stark kids and their Direwolves, and they haven't. Grey Wind's death would add so much emotional impact to the RW, specially because all the time he tried to warn Robb.

edit: spelling

[Winter In My Heart]

Grey Wind has appeared twice this season. One before Karstark said "you lost the war when you married that woman", and the other during Karstak's beheading. But still, that's not enough. They should show the special bond between the Stark kids and their Direwolves, and they haven't. Grey Wind's death would add so much emotional impact to the RW, specially because all the time he tried to warn Robb.

edit: spelling

Aah! I went back and rewatched the scenes. They do show Grey Wind for a few seconds. (I had to squint to see him at the execution.) I feel like he should be shown more than that. (Or at least in the same frame as Robb.) because if most people don't even notice, some being good with details, how many average viewers would actually notice the few seconds? I'm glad to find he actually has been shown though! He really needs more close ups like Dany's dragons have gotten =/

[tmug]

The writers have lost a lot of Robb's character because of the lack of Grey Wind. This is what you get when Robb is with out his wolf, a bunch of lords talking smack to the king right to his face. Old Karstark might have been less likely for treason his wolf was around intimidating like GW was with Jaime. Can you imagine Daeny negotiating with the Yunkai with no dragons and her mother, uncle and grand-uncle at your side? Daeny without her dragons, as we have seen, is truly nothing. Robb without his dire wolf this season has made him seem more 'green' then he ever was in Season 1.

Alls im sayin is that GW better not go down like a chump like the rest of these fools. They better take out some Freys on the way down at least.

[Mammothsbane]

The writers have lost a lot of Robb's character because of the lack of Grey Wind. This is what you get when Robb is with out his wolf, a bunch of lords talking smack to the king right to his face. Old Karstark might have been less likely for treason his wolf was around intimidating like GW was with Jaime. Can you imagine Daeny negotiating with the Yunkai with no dragons and her mother, uncle and grand-uncle at your side? Daeny without her dragons, as we have seen, is truly nothing. Robb without his dire wolf this season has made him seem more 'green' then he ever was in Season 1.

Alls im sayin is that GW better not go down like a chump like the rest of these fools. They better take out some Freys on the way down at least.

The weird thing about the wolves (or lack thereof) is that I always though the Starks and their warging was an important plot point.. since Bran is the only one who really has that capability in the show, I'm beginning to think it isn't that important.

I suppose that isn't really a normal conclusion but still. Things omitted from the show I believe have some weight since D&D know where the show is going.

[Winter In My Heart]

The weird thing about the wolves (or lack thereof) is that I always though the Starks and their warging was an important plot point.. since Bran is the only one who really has that capability in the show, I'm beginning to think it isn't that important.

I suppose that isn't really a normal conclusion but still. Things omitted from the show I believe have some weight since D&D know where the show is going.

Or they just really don't care about the Starks? All of the Starks have basically been crapped out since season two. Yes Bran has some dreams but that's also partly because of the three eyed raven thing. I honestly wouldn't hold any weight until the series plays out and we see how true D&D actually stay to the story. Things like focusing on unimportant characters (Ros and needless sex scenes) makes me think it has nothing to do with how important something is. Just look at the horribly little buildup they've done to RW.

[Cas Stark]

More weirdness. Speculation seems to be that there won't even be any Robb/Cat next week at all based on the episode synopsis. So, that would mean they'll go straight to the RW, where I guess maybe Cat will give a 10 second lecture on guest right as they're walking through the door.

Also seems unlikely then, if there is no Robb next week there will be a will, but then I never thought this was that big of a deal in the books.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

More weirdness. Speculation seems to be that there won't even be any Robb/Cat next week at all based on the episode synopsis. So, that would mean they'll go straight to the RW, where I guess maybe Cat will give a 10 second lecture on guest right as they're walking through the door.

Also seems unlikely then, if there is no Robb next week there will be a will, but then I never thought this was that big of a deal in the books.

Well, how long would the actual wedding itself really take? I can't imagine that scene would last longer than 10-15 minutes, from the time they arrive at the castle until the blood flows. Likely less. That gives them the chance for a couple of scenes prior to to that for set-up.

[Gendels Children]

Or they just really don't care about the Starks? All of the Starks have basically been crapped out since season two. Yes Bran has some dreams but that's also partly because of the three eyed raven thing. I honestly wouldn't hold any weight until the series plays out and we see how true D&D actually stay to the story. Things like focusing on unimportant characters (Ros and needless sex scenes) makes me think it has nothing to do with how important something is. Just look at the horribly little buildup they've done to RW.

ahh its sad but really is true, the Starks are fast becoming drop kick scenes. non reading friends of mine are even complaining that they show too much boring starks and not enough "khaleesi" UH!

More weirdness. Speculation seems to be that there won't even be any Robb/Cat next week at all based on the episode synopsis. So, that would mean they'll go straight to the RW, where I guess maybe Cat will give a 10 second lecture on guest right as they're walking through the door.

Also seems unlikely then, if there is no Robb next week there will be a will, but then I never thought this was that big of a deal in the books.

oh gods please please don't let it be true, that would just mess so much stuff up its not even funny! if they leave out the will and don't bother to show anything to do with Robb and Cat next week RIGHT be for the RW im just gonna freak! I will just..... ugh I don't no maybe i'll just cry

[JaTyAdo]

More weirdness. Speculation seems to be that there won't even be any Robb/Cat next week at all based on the episode synopsis. So, that would mean they'll go straight to the RW, where I guess maybe Cat will give a 10 second lecture on guest right as they're walking through the door.

Also seems unlikely then, if there is no Robb next week there will be a will, but then I never thought this was that big of a deal in the books.

Wait, wait.. really?! That's it?! People are not gonna give a fuck about them now!! I mean, seriously, why mess this up?? Red Wedding is supposed to be the most tragic thing that happened in ASOIAF. Now, people would have cared more about Ned's death than their death.. and their reaction after that would probably just be 'Well, they died.. Didn't see that coming though..'

The writers have lost a lot of Robb's character because of the lack of Grey Wind. This is what you get when Robb is with out his wolf, a bunch of lords talking smack to the king right to his face. Old Karstark might have been less likely for treason his wolf was around intimidating like GW was with Jaime. Can you imagine Daeny negotiating with the Yunkai with no dragons and her mother, uncle and grand-uncle at your side? Daeny without her dragons, as we have seen, is truly nothing. Robb without his dire wolf this season has made him seem more 'green' then he ever was in Season 1.

Alls im sayin is that GW better not go down like a chump like the rest of these fools. They better take out some Freys on the way down at least.

:agree: It's not just GW though. The show failed to establish the Stark's connection with their direwolves... I mean WTF is Ghost doing? Shouldn't he supposed to be with Jon? And Greywind does nothing when he appears, not even bond with Robb.. Only with Bran seems to be doing fine..

Or they just really don't care about the Starks? All of the Starks have basically been crapped out since season two. Yes Bran has some dreams but that's also partly because of the three eyed raven thing. I honestly wouldn't hold any weight until the series plays out and we see how true D&D actually stay to the story. Things like focusing on unimportant characters (Ros and needless sex scenes) makes me think it has nothing to do with how important something is. Just look at the horribly little buildup they've done to RW.

:agree:

Well, how long would the actual wedding itself really take? I can't imagine that scene would last longer than 10-15 minutes, from the time they arrive at the castle until the blood flows. Likely less. That gives them the chance for a couple of scenes prior to to that for set-up.

Hope so.. but will it be enough for the viewers to feel the emotional impact of RW? I do not mean that it has to be the same as it was in the book, just for them to feel how tragic it is, more tragic than Ned's death... Hell, they made Robb unlikeable and the Northmen that are loyal to him are missing..

[Cas Stark]

Maybe people who say they give more screen time to their favorite characters are right, I don't know how else to explain some of the bizarre decisions that have been made this season.

If you were going just by the show at this point it sure looks like Khaleesi is the one who will sit the iron throne at the end with Tyrion Dinklage as her hand of the queen.

[JaTyAdo]

ahh its sad but really is true, the Starks are fast becoming drop kick scenes. non reading friends of mine are even complaining that they show too much boring starks and not enough "khaleesi" UH!

EXACTLY!!! This is what I'm talking about.. whenever Robb appears, they show how he's such an ass, how he moons over Talisa's ass.. They're not even including the important stuff that's happening to Robb and Catelyn.. Really, was it really that hard to include such stuff when they have time for many unnecessary/annoying filler scenes??

[JaTyAdo]

Maybe people who say they give more screen time to their favorite characters are right, I don't know how else to explain some of the bizarre decisions that have been made this season.

If you were going just by the show at this point it sure looks like Khaleesi is the one who will sit the iron throne at the end with Tyrion Dinklage as her hand of the queen.

FUCK!!! No!!!!!! :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Gendels Children]

Wait, wait.. really?! That's it?! People are not gonna give a fuck about them now!! I mean, seriously, why mess this up?? Red Wedding is supposed to be the most tragic thing that happened in ASOIAF. Now, people would have cared more about Ned's death than their death.. and their reaction after that would probably just be 'Well, they died.. Didn't see that coming though..'

:agree: It's not just GW though. The show failed to establish the Stark's connection with their direwolves... I mean WTF is Ghost doing? Shouldn't he supposed to be with Jon? And Greywind does nothing when he appears, not even bond with Robb.. Only with Bran seems to be doing fine..

you are so very right! the RedWedding was the most horrific scene for me when I read it, the way everything went down, the sadness the violence, the music, the wolf, the fires, and of course poor Arya trying to get to her family while they are being brutally slaughtered and (in the case of Cat) ultimately driven pretty much insane. ........ man I really don't want them to screw this up guys.... :frown5:

[Birdsong65]

There is still the possibility that they may show the scene where Grey Winds either, one, becomes aggressive with the Freys upon Robb's arrival at the Twins, or, two, the part where he stops on the bridge and howls, and Robb must cajole him forward? Maybe...

Admittedly, it's a long shot, and the part with Catelyn spurring her horse forward to physically block Grey Wind would likely be awarded to some other character because why would they have Catelyn do anything of any importance whatsoever, but it would be any easy way to establish tension prior to the main event.

O/T with all this talk about the presence of GW, I immediately got this image in my head of him standing along with Catelyn, Talisa, Edmure, BF for the beheading, but on his hind legs, between Catelyn and Talisa. Completely absurd, but I laughed, which is my general response to the Northern Stark plot-line, it must be said.

I'm afraid I don't buy this idea that D and D wanted a season 3 because they wanted to depict the RW given the meager investment they have devoted to it comparative to other plot lines. And while it has (had) all the potential for epic storytelling, I'm afraid it will fall rather flat for readers. Quite literally, the scene will either win, or die, there is no middle ground.

[lojzelote]

As much as I am not a fan of the show at the moment, I feel we should wait to actually see next episodes before we begin to critize how horrible everything is. It may blow our minds (in the positive sense), completely against our expectations, and in the end, some of us will look a bit stupid, just like those who told their unsullied that The Bear and the Maiden Fair will be the best episode because George had written it.

*gets off her high horse and leaves*

[Ser Cookie Monster]

you are so very right! the RedWedding was the most horrific scene for me when I read it, the way everything went down, the sadness the violence, the music, the wolf, the fires, and of course poor Arya trying to get to her family while they are being brutally slaughtered and (in the case of Cat) ultimately driven pretty much insane. ........ man I really don't want them to screw this up guys.... :frown5:

It seems to me that they didn't really get everything that the RW means, and all the emotional factors that it had. They probably saw it as BAM! the Young Wolf and a bunch of people dying in a wedding.... That's it.