Continued Stannis Character Assasination [Book and TV Spoilers]

[Dragonstoned]

Disappointed that Stannis's mentions of Renly so far are wide of the mark.

s2e10 'I killed my brother'

s3e03 'they're laughing at me, the way Renly used to laugh at me'

s3e08 'because he had your blood in his veins' -- 'so did Renly'

Compare these to:

ACoK the whole soliloquy about Renly's death ending with 'Only Renly could vex me so with a piece of fruit. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother’s peach.'

ASoS 'Renly and his peach. In my dreams I see the juice running from his mouth, the blood from his throat. If he had done his duty by his brother, we would have smashed Lord Tywin.'

The only remorse we've had so far in the show is in s2e10 and it's really unsubtle. The other two examples are Stannis being bitter at him and even taunting his death.

The dynamic between Stannis and his brothers as expressed in his talks with Davos is one of the most interesting things about him - does the fact they have Stannis explicitly kill Renly mean they're dispensing with this?

[Jasta11]

Disappointed that Stannis's mentions of Renly so far are wide of the mark.

s2e10 'I killed my brother'

s3e03 'they're laughing at me, the way Renly used to laugh at me'

s3e08 'because he had your blood in his veins' -- 'so did Renly'

Compare these to:

ACoK the whole soliloquy about Renly's death ending with 'Only Renly could vex me so with a piece of fruit. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother’s peach.'

ASoS 'Renly and his peach. In my dreams I see the juice running from his mouth, the blood from his throat. If he had done his duty by his brother, we would have smashed Lord Tywin.'

The only remorse we've had so far in the show is in s2e10 and it's really unsubtle. The other two examples are Stannis being bitter at him and even taunting his death.

The dynamic between Stannis and his brothers as expressed in his talks with Davos is one of the most interesting things about him - does the fact they have Stannis explicitly kill Renly mean they're dispensing with this?

They really can't spend all season with Stannis brooding over Renly and being torn about sacrificing Gendry. The plot has to move along, so these aspects get simplified. Like they have been for most characters. The show is not the book and doesn't have to parrot every single line. They show him regreting Renly's death to a degree, they show him being conflicted about Gendry, that's enough for me.

[Stannis the Wight]

Stannis and Davos' exchange was great, exactly like something out of the books. I don't see how this is character assassination I just think some of you need to realize how limiting a TV adaptation is for a series as massive as this one. That or you just have sand in your vaginas.

[wolverine]

:agree: I am still waiting for the Stannis is the man moment. For me, it hasn't happened yet. Davos is the only redeeming part of his story.

I didn't know there were big Stannis fans. He is not a bad character, just not one who seems like he would attract fans. Davos is pretty awesome though.

[WardenOfTheNerds]

The worst out of character line this season is easily the horny Stannis on the beach. I hated that scene so much.

[poggo]

The worst out of character line this season is easily the horny Stannis on the beach. I hated that scene so much.

Indeed... needy, leghumping Stannis on the beach was horrible. -_-

But in this episode, he was really good.

Some people see "Character Assasination" just about anywere...

[Dogs]

Just throwing this out there, but I feel like Show Stannis is visibly more complex than Book Stannis. For instance, the fact that Book Stannis "never smiles" and never ever laughs at jokes is more one-sided than Stannis in the show, who is visibly conflicted and awkward and confused about how to proceed his war. He got a little frisky with Mellisandre on the beach, but he was at a very weak point, and then he later confessed his guilt about it to his wife. Isn't that a sign of complexity? I think Stephane Dillane's acting is superb, how socially awkward he is with people. He kind of shuffles down to the dungeons, uncertain about what to say to Davos, so Davos says it for him. And the same thing with his daughter, too, how he just kind of goes up and says hi, and then doesn't really have anything important to tell her or say to her, but it's still kind of obvious he does feel some sort of affinity or attachment to her but just has no idea how to express it.

I think the show has done a good job communicating that Stannis is really in a conflicted, stagnated state at this point in his life, with his gnarly beard and his wanderings around the castle visiting his family who he hasn't bothered talking to in a long time, and his wanting Mellisandre on the beach, and also, most recently in the latest episode, the piles of unopened letters on the table in his meeting room when they bring Gendry in. I thought that was a really cool detail that showed him not wanting to really deal with the responsibilities and the struggles of the real world of fighting a war.

Also, does anyone know why Stannis says "Joffrey Baratheon" instead of "Joffrey Lannister" when he throws Joffrey's leech on the fire? He's a stickler for proper titles supposedly, so I can't explain why he does that when Joffrey is not a Baratheon. It's in the book too.

[Nictarion]

I wish E-Ro was here.

I think you Stan Stans need to hold a kingsmoot, and elect a new leader to champion your cause.

[Nictarion]

There's someone else who burns people alive. Her name starts with a D.

There is quite a difference between burning a woman who murdered your unborn child in your womb, and a slave master responsible for thousands of dead babies and countless amounts of human suffering, as opposed to burning people as sacrifices to a god in the chance it may help your cause.

[Nictarion]

I didn't know there were big Stannis fans. He is not a bad character, just not one who seems like he would attract fans. Davos is pretty awesome though.

I was absolutely shocked by the love fest for Stannis when I first joined the forum. You would not believe how popular he is, I just don't get it. :dunno:

[ServantOnIce]

The worst out of character line this season is easily the horny Stannis on the beach. I hated that scene so much.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKwISEJCIAAUqmh.jpg:large

[Nezzer]

Also, does anyone know why Stannis says "Joffrey Baratheon" instead of "Joffrey Lannister" when he throws Joffrey's leech on the fire? He's a stickler for proper titles supposedly, so I can't explain why he does that when Joffrey is not a Baratheon. It's in the book too.

I don't know why, but he says "Joffrey Baratheon" in the books too. "Joffrey Lannister" wouldn't be correct because he's a bastard, but he can't be called "Joffrey Waters" because he is not officially recognized as a bastard. I honestly don't know how he should be called, maybe just "Joffrey"?

[Martin Lasarte]

What infamous column?

I was refering to this column, in which the author said:

A second episode monologue by Catelyn Stark (Michelle Fairley), about her relationship with her late husband’s bastard Jon Snow (Kit Harington), is particularly head-scratching, almost tantamount to outright character assassination.

Elio and Linda mentioned it in a couple of their own reviews, and then everyone else started using the term.

[Thelastactionhero]

There is quite a difference between burning a woman who murdered your unborn child in your womb, and a slave master responsible for thousands of dead babies and countless amounts of human suffering, as opposed to burning people as sacrifices to a god in the chance it may help your cause.

She also has the wineseller's daughter (a child) tortured in a bout of anger, and has anyone over the age of 12 wearing a tokar slaughtered at Astapor. I'm not going to defend Stannis burning people, but let's be real here, Dany has definitely killed far more innocent people than Stan the Man.

[Nictarion]

She also has the wineseller's daughter (a child) tortured in a bout of anger, and has anyone over the age of 12 wearing a tokar slaughtered at Astapor. I'm not going to defend Stannis burning people, but let's be real here, Dany has definitely killed far more innocent people than Stan the Man.

The wine sellers daughter's age was never given, she could have been in her 20's for all we know. And my response was to someone pointing out that Stannis isn't the only person that burns people. And like I pointed out, the circumstances could not be more different. I dont know why Dany needs to be brought up in a thread about Stannis anyway.

[Pinkie Baelish]

And whitewashing. Dont forget that.

You forgot to mention "misogynistic", "male gaze" and "butchered"

[Pinkie Baelish]

I think you Stan Stans need to hold a kingsmoost, and elect a new leader to champion your cause.

NO RH'LLOR-LESS MAN MAY SIT THE FANBOY CHAIR

[Thelastactionhero]

The wine sellers daughter's age was never given, she could have been in her 20's for all we know. And my response was to someone pointing out that Stannis isn't the only person that burns people. And like I pointed out, the circumstances could not be more different. I dont know why Dany needs to be brought up in a thread about Stannis anyway.

I didn't bring Dany up. In fact you were the one discussing her last I checked. You were right about the wineseller's daughter though, not that it really makes torturing her any less evil. It's funny how Dany and Stannis always seem to worm their ways into each other's threads though.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Stannis lusting over Mel did bother me at first, but to be honest, do we know what Stannis thinks of her in books?

As pointed out above, he was at his lowest in that scene: he returned from a battle he not only lost, but also caused his people to abandon him, the death of his most loyal man (he thought so) and to have the whole kingdom laughing at him. Then, he knew he would return home, when a crazy wife was waiting for him. Stannis is a man who has been denied many things: his parents died when he was very young, he never had a male heir but a girl that, while lovely, is sick, his older brother preferred his younger brother instead of him and while he always tries to do the right thing and being fair, people don't like him. And then, this hot bwitch arrives, with promises and prophecies that favour him, and her magic does work.

Yet, his own wife says "I have no problem with you sleeping with him". As a man, wouldn't he feel a bit... ignored hearing this? Because he did felt guilty about desiring her, he confess and Selyse says "yeah, whatever": that would break my heart. Melisandre, otoh, whatever are his intentions, makes him believe that she supports him and follows him no matter what. No wonder he didn't want her to leave, I wouldn't.

[Nictarion]

I didn't bring Dany up. In fact you were the one discussing her last I checked. You were right about the wineseller's daughter though, not that it really makes torturing her any less evil. It's funny how Dany and Stannis always seem to worm their ways into each other's threads though.

I didn't bring her up either. I just responded to the poster who did. You are so right about how the two always pop up in each others threads though, what's that all about?