(Book Spoilers) Theon and the reveal

[Stone Cold Bastard]

Ahh, I see the usual Theon Thread Creepiness is ahead of schedule. Usually it takes a day or three until the unironic "omg this is so hot"/"theon deserves this and worse"/"i sure do love torture"/"ramsay is literally my hero irl" posts start rolling in~~

Couldn't agree more. The Ramsay fanboys are annoying, and Iwan Rheon isn't that great at all. He isn't terrible, just really meh and underwhelming so far. He's like an angry evil hobbit. Book Ramsay was big boned/imposing, menacing, totally ugly (not a pretty boy) and a completely fucked up sadistic lunatic, whereas show Ramsay, specifically the torture scenes, have a bit of an element of camp to them.

The Yara/Balon scene was great though, and I agree with an earlier comment that Ramsay's letter was actually much more terrifying than the portrayal of Ramsay himself.

A Season 4 subplot of Yara and the Ironborn raising hell in or around the Dreadford (to give Ramsay something to do before ADWD) would be amazing.

[go joff go]

I don't know I thought the Book Ramsey was funny in his own weird way too. I loved the letter too, and the way Bolton kins of indicated what an out of control psycho he thought Ramsey was. (How awesome is Bolton, he is such a spitting image of the book version, they have even emphasized his whisper talk this year),

[Stone Cold Bastard]

Not really.

Roose in the book has long black hair, undergoes leechings (not sure the actor would want to do that, can't blame him), and seemed to struggle over betraying Robb.

Show Roose seemed to have no qualms betraying Robb and seemed to enjoy it.

[Cas Stark]

Couldn't agree more. The Ramsay fanboys are annoying, and Iwan Rheon isn't that great at all. He isn't terrible, just really meh and underwhelming so far. He's like an angry evil hobbit. Book Ramsay was big boned/imposing, menacing, totally ugly (not a pretty boy) and a completely fucked up sadistic lunatic, whereas show Ramsay, specifically the torture scenes, have a bit of an element of camp to them.

The Yara/Balon scene was great though, and I agree with an earlier comment that Ramsay's letter was actually much more terrifying than the portrayal of Ramsay himself.

A Season 4 subplot of Yara and the Ironborn raising hell in or around the Dreadford (to give Ramsay something to do before ADWD) would be amazing.

I agree, we may be the only two people who don't think Iwan's take on Ramsey is fabulous. He's much too boyish and childlike, and the real Ramsey was nothing like that.

[Miodrag]

I agree, we may be the only two people who don't think Iwan's take on Ramsey is fabulous. He's much too boyish and childlike, and the real Ramsey was nothing like that.

Count me in. I'm pretty disappointed with the casting choice in the case of one Ramsay Snow. Maybe he is an accomplished actor for some other stuff, but Ramsay he isn't, not by far. Why I hesitate to blame Rheon himself, is the fact that something really weird happened with acting in that particular storyline. Last year, it was probably the strongest acted plotline, with Allen carrying it on his shoulders. Dagmer was also strong presence, with his deep and powerful voice and hard face. This year, however, even Alfie wasn't his usual self - for my taste, he moaned and screamed practically whenever anyone so much as approached him, which was too much to be believable. So, maybe it wasn't solely on Rheon that Ramsay was so underwhelming, though he sure is among the responsible ones.

[MarieAntoinette]

I'm not sure how I feel about the reveal. I liked that they included the Reek name, but I did not like the sausage scene that much. While in the book there were a couple of hints, it really seems that in the show they are shoving the fact that Theon's Penis was cut off into our faces. I guess it is because they wanted to stop the speculation once and for all, but the sausage part followed by dick in a box was a bordering campy horror movie territory. I don't think Iwan is that fabulous either. While I don't think he is a bad actor I imagined Ramsay to be far more menacing, I do feel that TV Ramsay has a quirky element about him that I don't really like.

I was amused by the letter to Balon though. I also liked Yara, she grew on me. I look forward to her story next season.

[Dove]

As far as Iwan Rheon goes, I was absolutely pumped when I heard about his casting but as the season went on I became less and less sure. He's creepy, and weirdly funny too, but scary? Menacing? Not at all. Instead of being this genuinely frightening, unpredictable sort of figure he's coming across as a more campy, more extreme Joffrey 2.0 - boyish and mischevious. Whether it's better or worse is in the eye of the beholder, but it's sort of a miss for me so far.

Y'all keep in mind that I'm not really complaining, because I do think there's still time to build him up as being intimidating and all that if they want. I think it has less to do with his appearance (although book-Ramsay's ugliness may have contributed? IDK, i don't really care if the actor's attractive or not, that's not really the problem for me) and more to do with the material he's been given, and his lack of physical presence. You don't have to be a big ugly brute to be scary, but you do need to bring something to the table besides boyish glee.

that was a lot of words for "eehh i'm not too sure about rheon" but whatever

[Cas Stark]

Count me in. I'm pretty disappointed with the casting choice in the case of one Ramsay Snow. Maybe he is an accomplished actor for some other stuff, but Ramsay he isn't, not by far. Why I hesitate to blame Rheon himself, is the fact that something really weird happened with acting in that particular storyline. Last year, it was probably the strongest acted plotline, with Allen carrying it on his shoulders. Dagmer was also strong presence, with his deep and powerful voice and hard face. This year, however, even Alfie wasn't his usual self - for my taste, he moaned and screamed practically whenever anyone so much as approached him, which was too much to be believable. So, maybe it wasn't solely on Rheon that Ramsay was so underwhelming, though he sure is among the responsible ones.

I don't if its casting, although I thought he was too handsome for the role, but I believe he's got the acting chops to do the role more in line with the book.

So, I'm not sure why or where the whole Ramsey as the joker interpretation has come from.

[Jamie Lannister]

Not really.

Roose in the book has long black hair, undergoes leechings (not sure the actor would want to do that, can't blame him), and seemed to struggle over betraying Robb.

Show Roose seemed to have no qualms betraying Robb and seemed to enjoy it.

I thought it was the exact opposite.

Book!Roose was getting Stark men killed right from the start. He was weakening potential rivals and making sure Bolton strength was always #1. He admits that Theon taking Winterfell was a positive thing for him, and he was plotting with the Freys quite early; how else would Ramsay know to spare the Frey boys? His betrayal of Robb seems far more premeditated and deliberate, for reasons of opportunity and ambition, to achieve what Boltons had failed at for years: usurping the Starks as northern overlords.

Show!Roose was fighting with Robb right from the start. He was his right-hand-man and presided over victories that resulted in a 5:1 ratio of Lannister-Stark deaths. He admits to his partner-in-crime that he only betrayed Robb because the boy king never heeded his counsel and burned his own bridges. He gave Ramsay exact orders from Robb; he suggests that Ramsay destroyed Winterfell all on his own ("he has his own way of doing things...")

[ckongo]

Considering they already butchered the Reek/Ramsay dynamic by omitting Ramsay from season 2 and him not having a former Reek, they did a pretty good job of slipping it in there.

[Jory Cassel]

I thought it was the exact opposite.

Book!Roose was getting Stark men killed right from the start. He was weakening potential rivals and making sure Bolton strength was always #1. He admits that Theon taking Winterfell was a positive thing for him, and he was plotting with the Freys quite early; how else would Ramsay know to spare the Frey boys? His betrayal of Robb seems far more premeditated and deliberate, for reasons of opportunity and ambition, to achieve what Boltons had failed at for years: usurping the Starks as northern overlords.

Show!Roose was fighting with Robb right from the start. He was his right-hand-man and presided over victories that resulted in a 5:1 ratio of Lannister-Stark deaths. He admits to his partner-in-crime that he only betrayed Robb because the boy king never heeded his counsel and burned his own bridges. He gave Ramsay exact orders from Robb; he suggests that Ramsay destroyed Winterfell all on his own ("he has his own way of doing things...")

on my first time reading I thought he took them because they showed definite signs of cruelty/coldness (when theon was hunting for the boys).

To me it seemed perfectly logical that he wanted to form them the way he wanted.

Of course it seems as though this was part of the plot once you're aware of it, but it still makes sense.

[Cas Stark]

Considering they already butchered the Reek/Ramsay dynamic by omitting Ramsay from season 2 and him not having a former Reek, they did a pretty good job of slipping it in there.

That I think would have been much too complicated for a secondary storyline. They could have had Ramsey do a monologue about the first Reek instead of what they did, but having an actual Reek/Ramsey...then Ramsey masqueraqes as Reek...but is really Ramsey would have been too confusing given the time constraints and not worth it in terms of the pay off for the audience.

I just wish that TV Ramsey wasn't such a prankster and was closer to the character of the book.

[Stone Cold Bastard]

I thought it was the exact opposite.

Book!Roose was getting Stark men killed right from the start. He was weakening potential rivals and making sure Bolton strength was always #1. He admits that Theon taking Winterfell was a positive thing for him, and he was plotting with the Freys quite early; how else would Ramsay know to spare the Frey boys? His betrayal of Robb seems far more premeditated and deliberate, for reasons of opportunity and ambition, to achieve what Boltons had failed at for years: usurping the Starks as northern overlords.

Show!Roose was fighting with Robb right from the start. He was his right-hand-man and presided over victories that resulted in a 5:1 ratio of Lannister-Stark deaths. He admits to his partner-in-crime that he only betrayed Robb because the boy king never heeded his counsel and burned his own bridges. He gave Ramsay exact orders from Robb; he suggests that Ramsay destroyed Winterfell all on his own ("he has his own way of doing things...")

Book Roose only started getting Stark soldiers killed when he decided to betray Robb. And he admitted to Theon much later on after the RW, in ADWD, that he's thankful and appreciative of Theon for taking Winterfell. I'm pretty sure Roose was struggling with it, and I think it came to the fore when he dined with Jaime and Brienne at Harenhal, and then ultimately decides to betray him.

Way off topic, but does this happen to anyone else? Seems this message board needs a new server:

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[#2001]

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[Jslay427]

Ugh, I'm not looking forward to the creeps this scene will inevitably bring out.

Poor Theon, that was brutal as usual. Looks like the history of the Reek name is gone by the way Ramsay spontaneously came up with it, but who knows. Maybe we'll get some cool Yara vs. Ramsay stuff next season, could be a way to develop Ramsay outside of "now here's 5 more minutes of Iwan and Alfie in the torture room."

Also watch people still argue that Theon totally still has a penis, you guys, that scene was really vague even after this episode. When I said they couldn't be any more obvious unless someone literally turned to the camera and said "seriously there's nothing down there" I didn't expect them to actually do it. :lol:

Also also it's probably not going to happen but my god I really, really want Yara's scene to be foreshadowing that Asha is the one to eventually put down that bastard

It's clear that show Theon doesn't have a penis, but as you may have noticed the book and the show are different.

[Little and Less]

I want Yara to crush Ramsey, but in GRRM's world that is far too easy and too neat an ending.

[Khalessi]

Way off topic, but does this happen to anyone else? Seems this message board needs a new server:

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[#2001]

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Yes all the time! It is so annoying! I wondered if I was the only one who had so many issues with this forum. I really hope they make some changes to the forum, so this doesn't happen all the time!

[mediterraneo]

Ahh, I see the usual Theon Thread Creepiness is ahead of schedule. Usually it takes a day or three until the unironic "omg this is so hot"/"theon deserves this and worse"/"i sure do love torture"/"ramsay is literally my hero irl" posts start rolling in~~

Thanks a lot.

By the way, to all who say that Ramsay isn't scary enough.

Put yourself in Theon's situation, without any hope, and then having Ramsay to help you out. Then you are unable to run yourself, and this guy comes and saves you (male, and proud warrior king, who rapes slatwifes and pays with iron) from being gangsaped when you were helpless. Then you open yourself to him,already psicologically broken. Then your reality shakes again, as he turns it on you, making you discover that hit was only a bad tasted joke alll the way along....

Half the audience here feels the weight of Ramsay's cruel charisma, you, as sthe captive, have to add the weight of the clear absolute power Ramsay has over your destiny, body and mind. He phisically overcomes you when you are free and try to fight (well, mutilated, deshidratated, with alimental problems and forced for weeks in an unsuitable position, but...) Then he mutilates you, repeatedly.

What do you think? "Oh his trumpet is so funny I'll laugh on him, as he is so ridiculous?" Or like "this ridicolous man was enough to completely destroy me, and my lineage and identity, from now to the end of time, and is only going to hurt me more and more, as I'm weaker, stupid and not at his height in anything in life"?

"If you are hoping for a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

I ask you all, please, before saying that Ian is underwhelming, and Ramsey is not "scary" to put yourself, sincerely, in Theon's shoes, from his childhood to his attempt to live up to his families's lifestyle and expectations, to his ultimate situation in Ramsay's hands, before writing that.

Ramsay is not scary because of his "large bone build" or anything. He is scary because he has the absolute power on you, and exerts it with childish cruelty. As any torturer does, from the sands of Abu Grahib to the hills of some algerian France prison during algerian indipendence war.

Please, think about it.

[mafalda]

I thought it was a good reveal, simply because it was narrated in Roose Bolton's amazing voice.

[Theda Baratheon]

I wasn't too fond of the TEN THOUSAND NOT-SO-SUBTLE HINTS THAT THEON AINT GOT NO DICK ANYMORE.

Jess christ that was the least subtle fucking thing ever, man.

But wow is Iwan bringing the Ramsay.

[Pink Viper]

Two words.

Pork. Sausage. That is all. :P