Should tipping be banned?

[Martini Sigil]

My wife and I are very fortunate, and financially comfortable. But I totally agree with AM Phillip... people need to be able to earn a livable wage. We have this bad habbit in America of blaming the poor, and ignoring the faults in the system that favor the wealthy.

Tips are important to service workers. Tip generously, and it'll be its own reward.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

My wife and I are very fortunate, and financially comfortable. But I totally agree with AM Phillip... people need to be able to earn a livable wage. We have this bad habbit in America of blaming the poor, and ignoring the faults in the system that favor the wealthy.

Tips are important to service workers. Tip generously, and it'll be its own reward.

The worst part is the politicians they call $10 a living wage and people believe it. I'll never stop tipping ever, I've worked in the biz.

[fuseprime]

Someone wanted to turn the Kingsbridge armory in the Bronx into a mall and the politicians and community activists said the workers had to be a so called living wage of $10 an hour.

http://therealdeal.c...ated-companies/

http://therealdeal.c...d-developments/

Wow. I mean, $10 an hour is good for a second job that you'd work 15-20 a week to help pay for other expenses. But as far as calling THAT a living wage...wow. These politicians live in a bubble of ignorant bliss surrounded by reality.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Wow. I mean, $10 an hour is good for a second job that you'd work 15-20 a week to help pay for other expenses. But as far as calling THAT a living wage...wow. These politicians live in a bubble of ignorant bliss surrounded by reality.

They are so fucking out of touch that it sickens me.

[Foxtrot0245]

I think there are legitimate arguments for either keeping or tossing the structure of pay in the typical waitstaff/bartender type of job, but under NO circumstances should I be expected to tip someone who sits behind a counter/table and does the exact description of the job they agreed to do for $8-12. Examples include:

• Food places that offer delivery, but you chose to carry out. The word "tip" should not even print out on the receipt to avoid that shit-stare the cashier will give me when I put a line through it.
  
• Coffee shops:
  
  
• Buffet style restaurants: I don't care if the table gets cleaned after I leave, and I wouldn't eat there if it wasn't clean when I sat down. Pay your employees to clean YOUR restaurant, don't expect me to do it.
  
• Men's barbershops: I know I sound like a dick, but why do I need to tip to have you shave my whole head with a #1 guard? Shouldn't you be happy that I'm already paying you $8-$15 to do a 5-min job I could do at home for free?
  
• Casinos: If I'm expected to give the dealer a tip when my cards are hot, can I whip the shit out of him when they aren't? It's a game of luck, I can't control it any more than he can.
  

Ahh, you know what, eff it man, screw tipping anyone at any time. Tipping sucks, pay your people what they deserve.

[Horza]

Employers who can't pay their staff a living wage have no business running restaurants. It's that simple. Shifting the wage burden onto the customer is a shitty, shitty act, it shortchanges staff while forcing them to bow and scrape to the customer. You want that master-servant stuff? Go back to Victorian England.

[brook]

Thank you, and ouch, rent price is brutal.

I was just whinging about how cheap that sounds. Fuck Sydney.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I was just whinging about how cheap that sounds. Fuck Sydney.

Keep in mind that's the Bronx. If you rented in say The Village or the Financial District in Manhattan it would be almost four times that . It's even more expensive in other parts of the city. The average New Yorker is going to have a hard time finding affordable rent anywhere in the Five Boroughs pretty soon

[Errant Bard]

I was just whinging about how cheap that sounds. Fuck Sydney.

10 $/h (or something like 1600$ per month I suppose) is also considered a living wage in Sidney? Losing two third of your salary in rent is pretty insane, at this level, you'll barely have enough left to eat, and little to none to do anything else, including paying transport from your poor suburb to your job.

(I admit, my first reaction was also to think that a studio in Paris would cost more, but it's all about the district, an appartment in the poor cités nearby would not cost that much. Also transportation and food look cheaper, but not by much, in NY.)

[Masonity]

Employers who can't pay their staff a living wage have no business running restaurants. It's that simple. Shifting the wage burden onto the customer is a shitty, shitty act, it shortchanges staff while forcing them to bow and scrape to the customer. You want that master-servant stuff? Go back to Victorian England.

This is true.

Banning tipping isn't the answer though. A tip should be an option, but it should be a "hey, you deserve this!" thing, not a "here, custom dictates I give you this!" thing.

The default wage should be at least minimum shop wage. The default tip should be 0. However banning tipping takes away the possibility of making a little extra in exchange for going that extra mile.

Here in the UK, the average customer doesn't tip. When I work my ass off giving a party great service, bring you drinks outside on a hot day when there's officially no table service or make you cocktails despite the fact we technically don't sell them due to the time they take to make / type of bar we are the customers should have the option to thank me for it with a small tip though. Whether it's a "keep the change", a "buy one for yourself" or £2-3 "here, thanks!" on top of a round or a £5/£10/£20 at the end of the night. A regular not tipping will still be a priority, but a stranger slipping me a fiver is going to get their drinks delivered all night even if it leaves me doing ten things at once while one who doesn't will be told (truthfully) "Sorry, I'm too busy at the moment. You'll have to queue at the bar" if they try for a second round.

Tips should be a thank you for going above and beyond, basic wages for basic service should be baked into the prices and paid out by the employer.

[Horza]

This is true.

Banning tipping isn't the answer though. A tip should be an option, but it should be a "hey, you deserve this!" thing, not a "here, custom dictates I give you this!" thing.

Who said anything about banning tipping?

If customers want to reward good service, they're free to, it just shouldn't be necessary to keep staff clothed, fed and under four walls and a roof.

[Castel]

Who said anything about banning tipping?

If customers want to reward good service, they're free to, it just shouldn't be necessary to keep staff clothed, fed and under four walls and a roof.

*Looks at thread title*

:rolleyes:

[Horza]

*Looks at thread title*

:rolleyes:

If I'm quoted in a post I'm going to assume what follows is addressed to my post, not the thread title.

[BigFatCoward]

a stranger slipping me a fiver is going to get their drinks delivered all night even if it leaves me doing ten things at once while one who doesn't will be told (truthfully) "Sorry, I'm too busy at the moment. You'll have to queue at the bar" if they try for a second round.

see, this is the whole problem with tipping, i should get excellent service regardless. a russian oil tycoon should not get better service than i do just because of their ability to throw money around willy nilly.

i suppose tipping does mean that bar service is one industry where women make more than men, as long as they don't mind dressing up and pandering to gross middle aged sleaze bags.

[slim da reaper]

Drinks are offered by patrons to anyone regardless of gender who is a good bar tender.

[The Iceman of the North]

If I'm quoted in a post I'm going to assume what follows is addressed to my post, not the thread title.

The line "This is true." is certainly addressing your post. But why would you automatically assume that the rest of the post was?

[BigFatCoward]

Drinks are offered by patrons to anyone regardless of gender who is a good bar tender.

maybe where you come from, not in the uk.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Drinks are offered by patrons to anyone regardless of gender who is a good bar tender.

I agree, I always give bartenders the same tip regardless of gender.

[Horza]

The line "This is true." is certainly addressing your post. But why would you automatically assume that the rest of the post was?

The "though" lead me to concluded that there was continuity between the first and subsequent sentences. I realise on reflection that it doesn't have to, and it was incongruous with the rest of the post, so my mistake.

(Also I was processing this as "Tipping Thread #193)

[Seli]

Fair point. I didn't really think that through. I guess I'm just in favour of paying all service staff a decent wage and removing the need for tips all together.

Yes. Admittedly I do tip in restaurants here, but in the vague understanding part of it will end up in the kitchen. Although I have no idea how these things are divided here. It is complicated because in most restaurants the service staff that will show up during the meal seems to be more or less random/based on who has time.