Moments of Foreshadowing 5

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Didn't Jaime think of him as the perfect Hand? Oh boy... :lol:

Littlefinger? In a Game of Thrones, when he and Cersei are discussing Ned and his decision to become Hand/being spied on by Bran, Jaime says something along the line of: Robert could have named any of his brothers. Or Littlefinger, gods forbid.

So I doubt they ever hoped for LF as the Hand :p

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The sigil seems to indicate that House Harlaw willing associated itself with reaping, which doesn't mean dying except in metaphor. Reaping just means harvesting a crop. Yet, in order to reap, someone has to sow. Admittedly, this someone doesn't have to be House Harlaw, which means they can keep their harvest associated sigil

Yes, someone else has to sow: the poor schmucks whom the ironborn pillage from. That's where "We Do Not Sow" comes from. "We don't go through the trouble, we let other people do it and then pillage them and steal it all."

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes, someone else has to sow: the poor schmucks whom the ironborn pillage from. That's where "We Do Not Sow" comes from. "We don't go through the trouble, we let other people do it and then pillage them and steal it all."

Yeap. The scythe is used to reap not to sow.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Man, I really love Arya but she's just not gonna make it...

Here are Theon's thought before (f)Arya's wedding:

A face carved of ice, Theon Greyjoy thought as he draped a fur-trimmed cloak about her shoulders. A corpse buried in the snow.

Compare with Jon talking bout pullung needle from her frozen fingers and... well you get the picture :(

[Fire Eater]

Something occurred to me about the Houses of the Iron Islands.

House Greyjoy's officials words are "We do not sow." Sow as a verb means to plant seeds with the intention of harvesting the crops once they grow. The words are the embodiment of the "old ways" of the Iron Islands, to take what weaker men grow and make.

However, House Harlaw of the Ten Towers keeps as its sigil a giant scythe. Now for modern readers, a giant scythe is a scary thing associated with death. However, for a medieval economy, a scythe would have been the modern equivalent of a Jon Deer tractor. A scythe is just a common and handy tool for harvesting crops, and to ungainly to find much use on a battlefield compared to the much more elegant spear or the much deadlier sword.

The sigil seems to indicate that House Harlaw willing associated itself with reaping, which doesn't mean dying except in metaphor. Reaping just means harvesting a crop. Yet, in order to reap, someone has to sow. Admittedly, this someone doesn't have to be House Harlaw, which means they can keep their harvest associated sigil

So, I think the two houses are bound to oppose to each other. Krakens can't live outside the sea, while the Scythe needs land for a harvest. If House Harlaw wins the coming confrontation, then the old ways will end.

Admittedly, that isn't a lot to go on, but I think there is a reason so much time was spent on House Harlaw and Rodrick the Reader.

I go over that in another thread. The island of Harlaw is the most populous and fertile of the Iron Isles with much of its wealth coming from the land.

[Mithras]

Rhaenys, I was trying to make the point that all Jon, Robbert and Ned are destroyed by LF with the perfect timing. LF knew it was Jon who was holding the realm together. Jon was his first target to start his plan of creating chaos. He also knew that Robert will make Ned his hand after Jon. Robert is not a hard man to read, LF knew how he despises the Lannisters. And the letter sent by Lysa gave no choice for Ned but take the job. If he didnot want Ned to be the Hand, he would not send that letter. Robert was feeling the IT was slipping from his hands (he said this to Ned and he was right about it). He does not see any of his brothers fit to the job. Therefore, Ned was the only person who can be the Hand after Jon. LF cant do no harm to Ned in Winterfell but in KL, we saw what he was capable of. And this is exactly the plan of LF, to get Ned to his domain of influence.

Once Ned was in the office, LF tried all his best to make sure that Ned follows every step of Jon. Ned was raised by Jon and he was like Ned Arryn in that sense. So LF was very familiar to the kind of Ned. Every step of Ned was predictable for him, he even mocked him for being such a dumb from time to time.

By the way, LF is not a fool to tell Sansa about how he planned the murder of Robert and Ned. You cannot say such things to a girl whose trust you are seeking.

I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now... it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos.

Above sentence is very interesting and I think it has something to do with the 5 year gap originally intended but later abandoned.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Rhaenys, I was trying to make the point that all Jon, Robbert and Ned are destroyed by LF with the perfect timing. LF knew it was Jon who was holding the realm together. Jon was his first target to start his plan of creating chaos. He also knew that Robert will make Ned his hand after Jon. Robert is not a hard man to read, LF knew how he despises the Lannisters. And the letter sent by Lysa gave no choice for Ned but take the job. If he didnot want Ned to be the Hand, he would not send that letter. Robert was feeling the IT was slipping from his hands (he said this to Ned and he was right about it). He does not see any of his brothers fit to the job. Therefore, Ned was the only person who can be the Hand after Jon. LF cant do no harm to Ned in Winterfell but in KL, we saw what he was capable of. And this is exactly the plan of LF, to get Ned to his domain of influence.

Once Ned was in the office, LF tried all his best to make sure that Ned follows every step of Jon. Ned was raised by Jon and he was like Ned Arryn in that sense. So LF was very familiar to the kind of Ned. Every step of Ned was predictable for him, he even mocked him for being such a dumb from time to time.

By the way, LF is not a fool to tell Sansa about how he planned the murder of Robert and Ned. You cannot say such things to a girl whose trust you are seeking.

I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now... it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos.

Above sentence is very interesting and I think it has something to do with the 5 year gap originally intended but later abandoned.

Lamprey, you are totally right about LF getting rid of Jon and Ned, but how is he involved then in killing Robert? Cersei admits it was her doing, and that she used Lancel to get it done.

Any thoughts on that?

[Mithras]

Lamprey, you are totally right about LF getting rid of Jon and Ned, but how is he involved then in killing Robert? Cersei admits it was her doing, and that she used Lancel to get it done.

Any thoughts on that?

Cersei thinks both plans are her original ideas. She is free to think like that. As I said, LF's motives for killing Robert is much hihger than Cersei's. Therefore, the LF we know cant leave the murder of Robert to chance or Cersei's impotent hands. Cersei's ideas come from LF, although she does not realize that.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Littlefinger? In a Game of Thrones, when he and Cersei are discussing Ned and his decision to become Hand/being spied on by Bran, Jaime says something along the line of: Robert could have named any of his brothers. Or Littlefinger, gods forbid.

So I doubt they ever hoped for LF as the Hand :P

AFfC, final Jaime:

If Cersei can be put aside, Ser Kevan may agree to serve as Tommen’s Hand. And if not, well, the Seven Kingdoms did not lack for able men. Forley Prester would make a good choice, or Roland Crakehall. If someone other than a westerman was needed to appease the Tyrells, there was always Mathis Rowan... or even Petyr Baelish. Littlefinger was as amiable as he was clever, but too lowborn to threaten any of the great lords, with no swords of his own. The perfect Hand.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Lamprey, you are totally right about LF getting rid of Jon and Ned, but how is he involved then in killing Robert? Cersei admits it was her doing, and that she used Lancel to get it done.

Any thoughts on that?

Recall a conversation between LF & Ned. I believe it was the last one before Ned asked him for the Gold Cloaks. LF told Ned that somebody told Robert about a monstrous boar deep in the forest. Either LF realized Cersei was setting up an "accident" for Robert or he was complicit.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

AFfC, final Jaime:

I'll raise you with this conversation from aGoT, BRAN II:

"I do not like it," [Cersei] was saying. There was a row of windows beneath him, and the voice was drifting out of the last window on this side. "You should be the Hand."

"Gods forbid," [Jaime's] voice replied lazily. "It’s not an honor I’d want. There’s far too much work involved."

Bran hung, listening, suddenly afraid to go on. They might glimpse his feet if he tried to swing by.

"Don’t you see the danger this puts us in?" the woman said. "Robert loves the man like a brother."

"Robert can barely stomach his brothers. Not that I blame him. Stannis would be enough to give anyone indigestion."

"Don’t play the fool. Stannis and Renly are one thing, and Eddard Stark is quite another. Robert will listen to Stark. Damn them both. I should have insisted that he name you, but I was certain Stark would refuse him."

"We ought to count ourselves fortunate," the man said. "The king might as easily have named one of his brothers, or even Littlefinger, gods help us. Give me honorable enemies rather than ambitious ones, and I’ll sleep more easily by night."

I think it's funny how, after having been through all these personality changes himself, Jaime is no longer bothered by the possibility of LF becomming Hand of the King.

The term gods help us makes me think that Jaime, in the beginning, wouldn't like to see LF as Hand, since that would be giving him more power. But in the quote from aFfC, that you posted, Jaime seem to think that LF would be actually good for the job. No more O God, please no or something like that.

It's nice how Jaime can change his mind about things like this. The quote from aFfC shows that Jaime is truly thinking everything through now, he's no longer playing a game anymore (although he's still part of the ultimate game, the game of thrones :) )

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I just noticed something in ADWD, I don't know if it's been mentioned before (This maybe of interest to Fire Eater's Shiera theory)

Dany dreams of being married to Hizdahr while sleeping next to Daario,

This is the chapter after Tyrion is rescued from the river Rhoyne,

Foreshadowing of a marriage between Dany & Tyrion?

I think its Euron, Dany is more likely to marry Euron than Vic.

[tf13]

Yeap. The scythe is used to reap not to sow.

Sowing is planting, growing, etc. That gives us two off the back: House Selmy has a sigil of Wheat, and of course, House Tyrell's words of "Growing Strong".

[Grail King]

Man, I really love Arya but she's just not gonna make it...

Here are Theon's thought before (f)Arya's wedding:

A face carved of ice, Theon Greyjoy thought as he draped a fur-trimmed cloak about her shoulders. A corpse buried in the snow.

Compare with Jon talking bout pullung needle from her frozen fingers and... well you get the picture :(

Maybe, just maybe it's Jeyne Poole who dies as Arya and the real Arya lets everyone think she died.

[Roadside Rose]

To that I'll add from Tyrion's POV:

Looking for Daenerys, willing the ship to sail faster. Well, I might do the same if Tysha waited in Meereen.

With Tyrion's wife and Dany in the same thought, I think this adds to the foreshadowing that Tyrion marries Dany.

What do you think about the dream Tyrion has and how it ties into all this? Tyrion dreams that he is fighting alongside Bittersteel and Barristan with dragons whirling around him. I can understand the Barristan part because if Tyrion joins Dany's cause. But why Bittersteel? Is that a foreshadowing that Aegon will align his forces along Dany's?

I think its Euron, Dany is more likely to marry Euron than Vic.

I would consider all three Euron, Jon Snow and Tyrion here. But what I find really interesting is that Tyrion is the least likely from a reader's perspective, and GRRM loves to play with his reader's expectations. Secondly, the foreshadowing occurs in a chapter that is pretty close to the one in which Dany has that dream.

[cocoalover1956]

During one of the small council meetings in ACOK, Varys and LF tried to get Cersei to release Paxton Redwyne's children to "earn his love" to which Cersei responds: "The others can have his love." Maybe a possibility that the Others make it to the Reach? Kill Redwyne's loved ones? It was mentioned that he was Mace Tyrell's oldest friend so he might have a target on his back too. Its helps that Redwyne was involved in the Siege of Storm's End against Stannis, who is very physically close to the Others, so there's a connection there.

[Dagon]

Instead of making a new thread I'd rather mention again some things I've been pondering over. Someone reminded me of a quote by Patchface a little while ago of a very telling, seemingly nonsensical line about how they'll all ride horses under the sea and mermaids will blow sea shells to announce their arrival. That sounds an awful lot like the Others to me (being heralded by 3 horn blasts by the Night's Watch.) Mel told Jon that Patchface was dangerous and that she's seen him in her visions.

Then there's the Iron Born Drowned God motto, "What is dead may never die..." "But rises again, harder and stronger". Sounds to me like they're foreshadowing an Undead Naval fleet of Iron Born. I also think that Victarion will be among the few Iron Born left alive, and will use his arm against the Others. Euron will essentially doom his entire people. It's gonna be great.

And finally, the old saying, "All Men Must Die," followed with "All Men Must Serve." In that order? Once again it conjures images of the Others. What if the seasons are all out of whack because this rule is being violated with magic from the Wall, and that all men must "serve" after death? And who's will is it? The Great Other?

[Fire Eater]

What do you think about the dream Tyrion has and how it ties into all this? Tyrion dreams that he is fighting alongside Bittersteel and Barristan with dragons whirling around him. I can understand the Barristan part because if Tyrion joins Dany's cause. But why Bittersteel? Is that a foreshadowing that Aegon will align his forces along Dany's?

I would consider all three Euron, Jon Snow and Tyrion here. But what I find really interesting is that Tyrion is the least likely from a reader's perspective, and GRRM loves to play with his reader's expectations. Secondly, the foreshadowing occurs in a chapter that is pretty close to the one in which Dany has that dream.

He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them

Tyrion will fight in the Battle of Meeren alongside Barristan the Bold and the Bittersteel parallel, Vicarion (more on that below). Viserion and Rhaegal will be drawn to the battle. Bittersteel was angry and bitter all his life, and held particular loathing for one brother for taking the woman he loved. He helped one brother in his rebellion to crown himself king while trying to bring down another brother who was king. Victarion is angry and bitter in plenty of the POVs we are given, and he hates his brother Euron for stealing his salt wife. He supported his brother Balon's rebellion to crown himself while he is working to bring down his brother Euron who was crowned king.

[Mithras]

In the original Battle of the Redgrass Field, Baelor Breakspear (The Hammer) crushed the rebel army against the shield wall of his brother Maekar (The Anvil). Now in the Battle of Meeren, Barristan and Victarion will crush the Yunkish army but who will be the hammer and who will be the anvil? It is important because we know that later on Maekar ended up killing Baelor in the trial by seven.

[TheTowerOfJoy]

In the original Battle of the Redgrass Field, Baelor Breakspear (The Hammer) crushed the rebel army against the shield wall of his brother Maekar (The Anvil). Now in the Battle of Meeren, Barristan and Victarion will crush the Yunkish army but who will be the hammer and who will be the anvil? It is important because we know that later on Maekar ended up killing Baelor in the trial by seven.

Victarion (The Hammer) and Barristan (The Anvil) perhaps?