Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Another "clue" is that Tyrion chose Hill as his fake name (Hill being a bastard name of Westerland). :) yup, I have the 'Hill' quotes in the OP. GRRM is so smart at dropping small hints first, then they get more and more blatant as the books go on, by the time we get to TYrion's DwD chapters he is pouring out hints left and right:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yes I think most people, even those who dont like the theory, can agree that IF it is proven in WOIAF that Joanna was in KL in 272 to give birth to Tyrion in 273 that is is HIGHLY PROBABLE that Aerys is the father. I would not take Joanna being present in KL in 272 as making it highly probable or even just probable that Aerys is his father. Possible? Perhaps. As I said in one of my first posts in this thread, I don't think anyone's story would be ruined if Tyrion turned out to be Aerys' son. I would be completely fine with that. I just think there are other plausible possibilities that could allow Tyrion to ride a dragon, whether other ancestry, a horn, or the blood not truly being a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I would not take Joanna being present in KL in 272 as making it high probably or even just probable that Aerys is his father. Possible? Perhaps. As I said in one of my first posts in this thread, I don't think anyone's story would be ruined if Tyrion turned out to be Aerys' son. I would be completely fine with that. I just think there are other plausible possibilities that could allow Tyrion to ride a dragon, whether other ancestry, a horn, or the blood not truly being a requirement. I agree that the bolded is possible. It is just my opinion that if Tyrion rides a dragon A+J=T will be the reason, I agree there could be other reasons, but for the purposes of telling a good story, IMHO, this theory would make the most sense. Targs have always been nympho's, well a lot of them anyway, bastards everywhere, why should Aerys be any different? IMO Joanna being in the same place as Aerys 9 months before Tyrions birth is the final act to crown this theory as 'Truth" considering the massive amount of evidence besides that one very important geographical fact. Would you agree that Aerys and Joanna being in KL at the same time in 272 at least gives as much evidence towards this theory as there is to R+L=J? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Tyrion names himself Hugor Hill, after Hugor of the Hill an ancient Andal king. The very name he chooses is both a revelation of his true heritage and the confirmation of his bastardy. That's really a clever hint, and exactly the type of thing GRRM would do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I will very much admit to being wrong if I am, or if there is not enough evidence in the worldbook to add to the theory in my OP. The question is will everyone else admit to being wrong if my OP is proven right?Absolutely. I say riders of Daenerys's dragons do not equal Rhaegar's three heads of the dragon. If we only see three riders and they each have some Targaryen ancestry (although I do believe a drop of dragon blood is required), I'm probably wrong and you are probably right. But I'm not going to eat a boot like that numbskull did on the eve of the kingsmoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No idea how any sane man would call somebody who is not a dragonrider a head of the dragon if he is not a dragonrider, but another guy who has Targaryen blood and is a dragonrider cannot/is not a head of the dragon because, well, some other non-dragonrider guy with Targaryen blood is (Brown Ben Plumm, most likely). The dragons will decide who is a head of the dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No idea how any sane man would call somebody who is not a dragonrider a head of the dragon if he is not a dragonrider, but another guy who has Targaryen blood and is a dragonrider cannot/is not a head of the dragon because, well, some other non-dragonrider guy with Targaryen blood is (Brown Ben Plumm, most likely). The dragons will decide who is a head of the dragon.I think the three heads Rhaegar forsaw (even though he got the identities wrong) are Daenerys, Aegon & Jon. I do believe each of them will ride a dragon. I believe Tyrion and/or Brown Ben will too, but I don't think either of them is part of Rhaegar's prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 If Tyrion turns out to be a bastard that would ruin the whole relationship between Tywin and Tyrion, so I will have to hope it isn't true. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Every character in asoiaf is secrertly gay. Or the High Septon. Havent you read the boards?The book isnt out officially til Tues.But it can be got & I did. haven't really spoiled anything that grrm hadn't already told us in the novels about Tywin and Aerys. I just dispelled some internet "theory". And even after the world book goes public some people will not be satisfied and find a reason to maintain their "theories." What this suggests to me is that whatever is in the book is ambiguous enough that no one will be able to say definitively anything new on this topic (including you). This is more or less what I expected from this book; I just can't see GRRM giving away answers to mysteries in the novels in a companion publication. Really, the only thing I hope to get from AWOIAF is whether Varys came to KL pre or post-Duskendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 What this suggests to me is that whatever is in the book is ambiguous enough that no one will be able to say definitively anything new on this topic (including you). This is more or less what I expected from this book; I just can't see GRRM giving away answers to mysteries in the novels in a companion publication. Really, the only thing I hope to get from AWOIAF is whether Varys came to KL pre or post-Duskendale. I think WoIaF probably won't definitively prove theories one way or the other--but information may serve as clues that certainly might make certain theories seems more or less likely. For example, as noted above, the whereabouts of Joanna and Aerys during the likely time of Tyrion's conception would be a clue, even if not determinative. If they are shown to have been in the same location, that fact adds fuel to the speculation. If they appear to have been in very different locations throughout that period, it makes the theory seem unlikely and perhaps not possible. So while WoIaF may not directly give clues to any of the mysteries, ancillary facts are likely to be revealed that can support or harm current theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think WoIaF probably won't definitively prove theories one way or the other--but information may serve as clues that certainly might make certain theories seems more or less likely. For example, as noted above, the whereabouts of Joanna and Aerys during the likely time of Tyrion's conception would be a clue, even if not determinative. If they are shown to have been in the same location, that fact adds fuel to the speculation. If they appear to have been in very different locations throughout that period, it makes the theory seem unlikely and perhaps not possible. So while WoIaF may not directly give clues to any of the mysteries, ancillary facts are likely to be revealed that can support or harm current theories. Yes, in my many many discussions about this theory, they main deterrent has always been that 'we don't know where Joanna was in 272, having given birth to Tyrion in 273'. So if we find out in WOIAF that Joanna was in fact in the same location as Aerys in 272, then obviously the main argument against will be shut down once and for all, and we can all start to build from the new evidence and see what makes sense. Pre-Order comes out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwesterner Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Joanna cheated on Tywin with Aerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Joanna cheated on Tywin with AerysShe musta been all hot for him after seeing how he treated his sister/wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Joanna cheated on Tywin with Aerys Or possibly Joanna was raped by Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Joanna cheated on Tywin with Aerys She musta been all hot for him after seeing how he treated his sister/wife. Or possibly Joanna was raped by Aerys. Well her and Aerys were companions as children, they had known each other for years, them and Rhaella and Tywin were all long friends/aquaintances. It's possible he raped her, or that they just had an affair. This would have been long before Aerys had reached the height of his madness. And everything I have read seems to suggest that Aerys was a very attractive Targaryen, just like Rhaegar. He only went all Howard Hughes at the end. I think it highly possible that they just slept together regular and it was not rape, but I really don't know, it could be either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freypie Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The most crackpot theory I've found in this thread is that Twoiaf can prove or disprove theories about things like secret love affairs.You realise it's written from the PoV of maesters, not Varys littlebirds ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 The most crackpot theory I've found in this thread is that Twoiaf can prove or disprove theories about things like secret love affairs. You realise it's written from the PoV of maesters, not Varys littlebirds ? Muwahahaha, I disagree , and Ill explain why tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 If someone thinks that the main argument is that Joanna and Aerys weren't in the same place for Tyrion to be Targaryen, well, allow me to say that is a mistake... For me personally would be the obvious idiocy of Joanna in that case... I mean, if she was pregnant with Aerys' child, and that was a secret. she could have easily abort, in order not to risk having silver-haired purple-eyes walking proof of her infidelity. Joanna wasn't stupid, and she would have known what to do in such circumstances. So, even though we have them in same place, there are more to answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 We know practically nothing about Joanna, only a few sentences of second hand info. I hardly think we can determine with any certainty if she was smart or stupid. But many women would never willingly terminate a pregnancy under any circumstance, maybe she was one of them. If she is, as I state in the OP, in the same location as Aerys in 272, 9 months before Tyrion was born, then this theory will officially have as much to go on as R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Why the hell should Joanna abort a royal child? If she slept with Aerys, the term 'consensual' has to be considered really seriously. Not to mention the fact that there could have been a threesome with Tywin, or, much more likely, she could have had intercourse with Tywin/Aerys shortly afterwards, making it impossibly to know if the child was Aerys' or Tywin's. In that case she would not abort. She would also not try to abort if she wanted to keep the Aerys-Joanna-thing a secret from Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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