Are Terry Goodkind books of the So Bad its Good type?

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

The preaching didn't get really out of hand until the statue made everyone's things rise up in unison. (Seriously, a stupider scene could scarcely be imagined.)

Book 1 was ok, if a bit heavy on the cliches, ridiculous violence, and all the weird sexual stuff.

Book 2 was extremely derivative, nearly to the point that I thought it was a caricature at times, but had some good scenes and was readable.

Book 3 was, IIRC, not very preachy and also just really terrible. Though it did feature nipple magic.

Edit - I think this is also the first book where Dick tells everyone that they can be free to live their own lives as good Objectivists but only after they perform a public two-hour devotional to him and be under his total rule. Neutrality was not an option.

Books 4 and 5 started to go off the rails, being both really stupid and preachy (also featuring an incredibly on the nose negative portrayal of the Clintons, which I'm sure Tairy thought was quite subtle). We also had spine ripping in Book 4.

Book 6 had the statue. Nuff said.

After that I don't remember much except that armies got steadily larger (at one point they mention a supply convoy of 250,000 men), Dick got steadily more insane, and a bunch of commie pacifists were righteously massacred. Plotwise I think he just started to throw shit out there to see if anything stuck.

Also:

GRATCH LURRRG RATTCHH ARGHH

[Seventh Pup]

I stopped at book 3. I was 13 and had never stopped reading a book I started before. But yeah it gets stupid and boring pretty quick.

[SeanF]

And which book does the demonic chicken appear in?

[Elessar]

And which book does the demonic chicken appear in?

Book 5 - Soul of the Fire

[Ghjhero]

Same publisher, so it's all gravy to them.

Reading interviews with Robert Jordan, it is very, very clear that Jordan absolutely hated the man and his books. Jordan's last public statement before his death was him finally snapping and ripping into Goodkind for being such a twat by making comments that seemed to be taking the piss out of Jordan's heart condition.

You mind sharing a link to that interview?

[The Killer Snark]

Does anyone else think that Goodkind looks like one of the evil martial arts instructors one finds in films like The Karate Kid franchise. "You must learn to use moral clarity, or you will only come second best."

[Elessar]

Does anyone else think that Goodkind looks like one of the evil martial arts instructors one finds in films like The Karate Kid franchise. "You must learn to use moral clarity, or you will only come second best."

Before he shaved his head, totally. "If a man can't see he can't write..."

[Elessar]

^{At least Kahlan had great boobs.}

[Ded As Ned]

You mind sharing a link to that interview?

Here's a link to everything I've ever seen RJ state about Tairy. From what I remember (interviews quoted in the link), RJ was usually pretty gracious in his answers (at least compared to how I would have been), but you can read between the lines (Wert may have better sources than those I am aware of)

Interview: Jan 6th, 2004

USA Today Interview (Verbatim)

Delmar, NY

Have you ever read or heard about the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? After reading the series it is obvious many of the main ideas are copied from the WoT.

Robert Jordan: "I'm aware of Mr. Goodkind."

Interview: Jul 14th, 2006

Robert Jordan's Blog: NO CHAMPAGNE YET (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

For Richard Scholten, I have never discussed anything whatsoever with Terry Goodkind. I suggest that you check the publication dates of his books and mine. Of course, he says he has never read me, or so I'm told, and I would never contradict a statement like that. Just check out the pub dates on his books, and the pub dates on mine, those that contain the similarities you speak of.

Interview: Aug 22nd, 2007

Robert Jordan's Blog: A VERY quick check-in (Verbatim)

Robert Jordan

I seem to feeling rather viperish today. I also hear that a certain writer [Tairy], on hearing that I had heart problems, announced that his cardiologist, on holding his (the writer's) heart in his hands said that he could have been holding the heart of a sixteen year-old or some such. My cardiologist told me much the same thing, but I made him give it back. Ahem. A question occurs. What was wrong that anyone had their filthy fingers palping his actual heart. All my heart examinations have been via catheritazation or electrocardiogram or echocardiogram or the like. Only if they saw cause would anyone be sticking fingers into my chest must less fingering my heart. Some discrepancy there, eh?

On, well. Down, Simba! Down, Big Boy. That's what Harriet says when I get like this. Lets get on to something a little more pleasant.

[Spaßvogel]

I posted on one of the other Goodkind threads, but I also agree that the first three books are about the limit. Finishing book 4 felt like trench warfare and I didn't read any more of them.

He really should've just created a new world after that because the series turned into novel-length mad-libs after that with different names/groups plugged into the blanks.

First book is excellent and creates good momentum, but it's done by the time you get done with book 3.

[Myshkin]

While I agree that the first book is the least offensive, that the blatant Jordan ripoffs didn't start until book 2, and the Objectivist derailment didn't really hit its stride until book 5, I'd like to remind everyone of a few things that did happen in the first book:

Our hero's brother, a politician, manages to convince an entire nation to voluntarily ban fire. Ban fire! Do you know what would happen if a medieval country banned fire? Short answer, everyone would die.

Our hero's mentor, the wily old super wizard, convinces a crowd of angry villagers that all their penises have disappeared. Their penises had not in actuality disappeared, but for some reason they all believed the old asshole when he told them that they had. He explains how he did this by enlightening us with the titular Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. This is not a joke, and I am not paraphrasing; the wizard's first rule of the title is, verbatim, people are stupid. Believe it or not, this is not the dumbest of the wizard's rules.

Our hero righteously kicks a little girl's face off. This is not presented as morally ambiguous (nothing in Goodkind is morally ambiguous), but rather as The Right Thing to Do. The little bitch fucking deserved it!

Our hero falls in love with his rapist, and his rapist in turn falls in love with him. It's okay though, because she's super hot, really kinky, and has nice boobs. He does end up killing her, but he does so, literally, out of love, and remembers her fondly for the rest of the series.

[sologdin]

i'm having a hard time recalling the jordan similarities. anyone have a short summary of the indictment?

[Myshkin]

i'm having a hard time recalling the jordan similarities. anyone have a short summary of the indictment?

Well there's the Stone of Tears, which while having no actual similarities to Jordan's Stone of Tear was almost certainly named so in order to sell books. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the publisher's decision.

I don't remember her name, or much about her, but there is a character in Stone of Tears that IIRC has almost the same exact abilities as Min.

More solidly, in Stone of Tears we are introduced to the Sisters of the Light, a powerful organization of female magic users who have incredible political influence over much of the world, and who hunt and capture male magic users. I realize that Jordan doesn't own the exclusive on groups of female magic users, but before someone mentions the Bene Gesserit, the Sisters of the Light were an obvious copy of the Aes Sedai, complete with Black Ajah, I mean Sisters of the Dark.

Then in Blood of the Fold we are introduced to the Blood of the Fold, a multinational military organization dedicated to wiping out magic and magic users. They are a carbon copy of the Children of the Light.

[Shryke]

While I agree that the first book is the least offensive, that the blatant Jordan ripoffs didn't start until book 2, and the Objectivist derailment didn't really hit its stride until book 5, I'd like to remind everyone of a few things that did happen in the first book:

Our hero's brother, a politician, manages to convince an entire nation to voluntarily ban fire. Ban fire! Do you know what would happen if a medieval country banned fire? Short answer, everyone would die.

I can't even remember that happening. I can't even remember when people told me it happened.

My brain seems to firmly reject the very idea. It comes in the ear or the eye and my brain is like "Fuck no, we are NOT keeping this around."

[Darth Richard]

The Sisters of the Light were also ageless and lived a long time right? I think they had a leader too who was ousted by the dark sisters under diguise or fuck, I can't remember. The WoT similarites were so bad in book 2 I actually get some of it confused with the real Wot.

Also, seriously, stop making me want to reread Wot guys! I have 400+ other books to read!

Oh! And don't forget the first book had magic pain/pleasure dildos!

[sologdin]

as i recall it, jordan didn't have magic dildos. that would be goodkind's innovation, no?

[Exa Inova]

as i recall it, jordan didn't have magic dildos. that would be goodkind's innovation, no?

Yes, but not just magic dildo's magic pain/pleasure dildo's.

Just like Nable cock. Another one of Badkind inventions. The more barbed the better. Book 2 if I remember correctly?

There are complete threads about mysogyny in Bakkers books. The obviousness of the Yeards mysogyny doesnt require its own thread.

[Darth Richard]

Yes, Goodkind has the magic dildos. Jordon just has some spankin'.

God, the namble cock, I don't even remember. It all blends together.

[Exa Inova]

Its pointed, barbed, erect phallus stood out, plainly silhouetted against the candles beyond.

No, you dont have to thank me.

[Elessar]

Here is something for a good laugh and many shakes of the head. What a dick... http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20030805003/tscript.htm