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Will Sansa slowly turn into Cersei? I think so.


Ser John Alexander Hall

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Possibly, but we haven't seen her rejecting those sentiments given how she made everyone in Eyrie to be kind to her, and how well she adapted as a bastard. Also, if she does leave those sentiments, she still needs miles and miles to be anywhere near Cersei's craziness.

I don't think she'd be as irrational as Cersei, either.

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No. Cat+Margery+Olenna(Stark Honor) = Sansa the Player .

In a ACOK, in Maegar's holdfast Cersei advises Sansa to make people fear her. Sansa thinks she would rather make them love her. Remember how even as a child, Cersei was abusing her baby brother and pushing her best friend down a well? I really don't see becoming like Cersei out of nowhere.

Yes. Cersei is a sociopath in every sense of the word. She doesn't care for the wants and needs of anyone, I don't even think she can acknowledge that anyone else has humanity it's just Cersei versus The World. She has no respect for human life whether they be her friends or strangers, even Jaime is just a pawn to her.

Sansa started naive then learnt that the world is a nasty place. At her core she has the kind/sensitive person still there but now she's scarred by years of deceit, abuse, and trauma. Sansa can become a great player but she isn't hateful, she doesn't think the world revolves around her or that it should. Sansa seeing Cersei during Blackwater gave her a glimpse into how pitiful Cersei truly is and she definitely doesn't want to become that.

I agree with whoever said she'll be more like Olenna.

I wish Sansa and Olenna would have a montage on the HBO show were Sansa becomes a master player.

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If she remains under Littlefinger,She'll probably end up the same as Lysa rather than Cersei

But I don't think she will continue to be with him very long.Having said that I do think she will kill Robert Arryn.

I think she's too intelligent to end up like Lysa.

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No, Sansa is becoming very much the exact opposite of Cersei.

Cersei never had a female role model so grew up to scorn and degrade her femininity. Sansa on the other hand had Catelyn for a role model and aspired to be as strong as her lady mother.

Cersei's bitter because her parent was a cruel patriarch who stamped out childish inclinations and showed very little attention to her. Sansa's childhood was surrounded by people who loved and encouraged her dreams and girlish inclinations.

Cersei was never taught the game and her vanity prevented her from fully grasping reality and how politics works. Sansa's being taught by the master himself and has shown signs if understanding how the game is played from the very beginning.

Cersei's life just made her more vicious, spiteful and ruthless whilst Sansa became more compassionate, wiser and guarded.

Cersei thinks you have to rule through fear, whilst Sansa decides that she'd make the people love her when she becomes queen.

They're the exact opposite of one another, so I highly doubt Sansa would become a Cersei 2.0.

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Sansa's basic human decency will hopefully prevent her becoming anything like Cersei. In fact, considering how Sansa is already working out LF's plots (at his intstruction of course) such as his hiring of Lyn Cobray, she's showing a burgeoning intellect which Cersei sadly lacks. Self awareness, kindness, decency, a desire to be loved - all these things separate the two women.

This is actually the first I've heard of a "controversial" sansa chapter in TWOW. I just hope to god LF doesn't rape her. Please, please, please no. Hasn't she suffered enough?

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No she won't. The fact alone that she is thought by LF makes her superior in the Game of thrones. Most of the things we see of Cercai are how she fails. She never planed to kill Ned, she never planed to have Joffrey abuse Sansa in the way he did. But since she is a sociopath she does not care.

She just thought, that with Robert gone she would be Queen and everything would move along as before or even better. She never realised that people did not help her, because she is so awsome but that everybody who helped her had a second agenda in mind. From LF and V to the lowest players.

As funny as it is Tyrion was one of the few person who actually helped her without planning her downfall.

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I think all the posters who have said that Sansa can never become Cersei 2.0 because she lacks Cersei's established psychopathic tendencies are missing the OP's point, if I understood the OP correctly. It's not whether Sansa will start abusing infants, murdering her BFF on the slightest of pretenses, and beginning a slow slide into insanity. It's whether she will become as ruthless as Cersei.

A lot of posters are saying "Sansa won't be ruthless, she'll just become a player." Hahaha, have you even been reading the books? What do you think the players do? What do you think the Queen of Thorns did when it was required of her? That's right: frame an innocent child (Sansa) for regicide. What do you think Littlefinger has done? Killed many, tried to kill more, and helped cause and pour gasoline on a war that's killed thousands for no other reason than personal gain. What do you think the oh-so-benevolent Varys has done, except murder Kevan and Pycelle and keep himself well stocked in children he insists must be mutilated for his own purposes?

If Sansa's going to follow in their footsteps and become a player worth her salt, she's going to have to do the same: cause others' deaths (even those who've done nothing to harm her) or resort to outright murder, and not give two shits about it. There's no room for decent, compassionate Neds in this game, and if you think there is, you clearly haven't been paying attention. It's no coincidence that the darker Tyrion gets as a character--the less he cares about his family, the more willing he is to lie through his teeth, the less concerned he is about murder--the better he's able to maneuver as a player.

Sansa thinks she would rather make them love her.
She acknowledges in her conversation with Cersei that it is better to have your subjects love you than fear you.
From 2 lines: "I would make them love me", and "I would have given them bread" we are shown that Sansa is someone far different from Cersei.

That was in ACOK, three books ago, though, when Sansa was a markedly different sort of person (who would surely never dream of lying to condemn an innocent man to death). Four books ago, if you'll recall, she wanted nothing more than to marry Joffrey. Characters change in these books, especially the younger ones, and their outlooks are highly malleable (look at how much Arya's viewpoint has changed in five books). Having Sansa initially express disdain for Cersei's cynical outlook and then, as a result of Littlefinger's teachings and her experiences in the Vale, cycle around to the same point of view would be very GRRM and would be a good marker of her character development.

So saying "Sansa thought X in ACOK, so she'll never think Y in the future" is a pretty flimsy argument. (I kind of feel the same way about the AFFC "Lies and Arbour Gold" quote from an earlier chapter in the book, since it's held up as proof positive that Sansa will never succumb to his infuence when the last Alayne chapter in AFFC subtly shows Sansa slowly succumbing to his influence.)

GRRM loves putting the screws to his characters and putting them in impossible situations where they do things they once never would have dreamt of doing or would have recoiled from doing (Tyrion learning how to joust on a pig to save his life, Brienne going back on her word to save Pod's life, etc.). I think in AFFC he's setting up an equally difficult, impossible situation for Sansa where she turns into the sort of person who once would have disgusted her. We shall see. Arya was once disgusted by the Hound's casual attitude towards killing, too.

I think GRRM is gonna pull the old blindside on this one.

I think the blindside will be that Sansa will actually sign on to Littlefinger's plan, although it will be with the appropriate amount of "What choice do I have?" and hand-wringing.

Sansa/Alayne killing Robert and Petyr are huge actions and I don't thinks she's heading down that dark of a path.

Based on what, exactly? In ADWD, we have Bran chowing down on some ambiguous weirwood paste and winding up with the taste of blood in his mouth at the end of his vision, as well as Arya performing her first hit on a person who's done absolutely nothing to her, and we know Sansa had an ADWD chapter bumped to TWOW; to complete the symmetry, Sansa needs to go down an equally dark road. Realizing that Littlefinger is poisoning Sweetrobin slowly and deciding to acquiesce to his murder--the smothering suggested by the OP seems a bit much, but "passively" murdering Sweetrobin, less so--would fit the bill. Sweetrobin doesn't actually need to die, but Sansa being shown to be savvy enough to put the pieces together about Littlefinger's poison scheme and ruthless enough to rationalize away his murder (Sweetrobin's in constant pain, he's going to die anyway, it's my duty to reclaim Winterfell in my family's name, etc. etc.) would say loads about where her character is now and where her character may be headed in the future.

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I think all the posters who have said that Sansa can never become Cersei 2.0 because she lacks Cersei's established psychopathic tendencies are missing the OP's point, if I understood the OP correctly. It's not whether Sansa will start abusing infants, murdering her BFF on the slightest of pretenses, and beginning a slow slide into insanity. It's whether she will become as ruthless as Cersei.

A lot of posters are saying "Sansa won't be ruthless, she'll just become a player." Hahaha, have you even been reading the books? What do you think the players do? What do you think the Queen of Thorns did when it was required of her? That's right: frame an innocent child (Sansa) for regicide. What do you think Littlefinger has done? Killed many, tried to kill more, and helped cause and pour gasoline on a war that's killed thousands for no other reason than personal gain. What do you think the oh-so-benevolent Varys has done, except murder Kevan and Pycelle and keep himself well stocked in children he insists must be mutilated for his own purposes?

If Sansa's going to follow in their footsteps and become a player worth her salt, she's going to have to do the same: cause others' deaths (even those who've done nothing to harm her) or resort to outright murder, and not give two shits about it. There's no room for decent, compassionate Neds in this game, and if you think there is, you clearly haven't been paying attention. It's no coincidence that the darker Tyrion gets as a character--the less he cares about his family, the more willing he is to lie through his teeth, the less concerned he is about murder--the better he's able to maneuver as a player.

Exactly that. Being a Player of the Game doesn't mean you have to be Ramsay Bolton, or Aerys, or Cersei (all of whom are poor players) but it does mean you have to be ruthless, cynical, and remorseless. If Sansa's interests require Sweetrobin to be killed off, then Sweetrobin's got to go.

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I don''t see Sansa walking Cersei's path. She'll have to get colder and harder, because that's how all players are, or mainly, that's how all players have to be. I believe she'll become a political force, but I don't think she'll go more on the Cersei's way of ruling. I can imagine Sansa as a more Catelyn+Olenna ruler, doing everything in her power to protect her family and the North.

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But he was innocent of the crime for which he was imprisoned and tortured.

Of course. But he was a criminal scumbag anyway who by Westerosi standards deserved death.

Sansa's choices were to go along with LF's plan where Marillion the criminal who tried to rape her gets punished or to admit the truth and most likely end up executed because she was wanted for regicide.

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But he was innocent of the crime for which he was imprisoned and tortured.

Which is what I meant.

On another note, there is an upcoming TWOW Sansa chapter that might be controversial in certain quarters of the fandom, as it was described (the Vulture interview with the quote says "sure to be controversial," but this was later clarified as "might be controversial in certain quarters of the fandom"). There was a thread devoted to this on the TWOW boards, but the consensus, insofar as there was a consensus, was that given ASOIAF and GRRM, the "controversial" aspect likely involves 1) creepy sex stuff or 2) Sansa doing something "evil" or "un-Starklike," probably involving Sweetrobin.

Of course. But he was a criminal scumbag anyway who by Westerosi standards deserved death.

Sansa's choices were to go along with LF's plan where Marillion the criminal who tried to rape her gets punished or to admit the truth and most likely end up executed because she was wanted for regicide.

But that's just it, David Selig. You've made my argument for me: just as you're rationalizing and coming up with excuses for Sansa's actions, so too did Sansa find a way to do something that once would have disgusted her and put it out of her mind.

I think Marillion isn't an outlier. Marillion is precedent. Marillion, being a rapist, Sansa's would-be rapist, and a would-be murderer, whose death Sansa can write off as just deserts, but who was nonetheless innocent of the crime of which he was accused and was condemned to death by virtue of Sansa's lies, is a warmup for Sansa to perform a much less ambiguous, much more sinister act involving an innocent person, that, just as with Marillion, she'll find a way of justifying to herself (and in relation to which posters like David Selig will no doubt fall all over themselves defending her saying Sansa had no chooooooice). Will that act involve Sweetrobin? Maybe not, but it seems awfully likely.

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Of course Sansa won't end up like Cercei, Cercei is fiercely loyal to her family (with the exception of Tyrion). Between betraying Arya, betraying Ned, proclaiming Robb a traitor, and conspiring with her Aunt's murderer to cover up said murder, Sansa has shown that loyalty is a trait she will never possess.

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