Will Sansa slowly turn into Cersei? I think so.

[Pikachu101]

Judging only by the dynamic with Sweet Robin and Littlefinger, Sansa is doing exactly what Cersi did: lie and manipulate, "let" someone die and participate in it, steal a holdfast from within and marry an heir for personal gain.

All players lie and manipulate; not just Cersei

Sansa is the exact opposite of Cersei, and she's been showing that since GoT. Sansa's calm, level headed and guarded whilst Cersei is emotional, paranoid and unstable.

She has a few good years to use her beauty to get what she wants, but other than a smaller prize Sansa has already turned into Cersei Lannister.

She doesn't use her beauty to get what she wants and LF's already warned her not to because it doesn't last for long. So far from what I've seen she's the exact opposite of Cersei in everything she does, I don't know where you got the idea that she's Cersei in the making :dunno:

[SeanF]

Let me ask you this - if you have a choice between getting yourself killed and letting a guy who tried to rape you and tried to help someone else murder you - you would sacrifice yourself? Because I certainly wouldn't and don't see it as a moral failing if someone else makes the same choice as me.

I don't blame Sansa for lying in this case. Marillion is odious, and it's her life or his. But perjury in a capital case can't be considered to be morally good. It's an example of how LF has begun to corrupt Sansa.

[Facebookless Man]

It's a bit too simplistic to consider all players morally equivalent. Pretty much every significant character in the books is a liar and/or a murderer, even those who aren't players at all. That does not make them the same.

[Ingelheim]

Sansa is playing the game, simple as that.

Did she lie about the bard who tried to rape you and tried to help someone else murder you? Yes, but I would have done that, instead of get killed like she was going to do.

[chrisdaw]

Sansa won't become Cersei because there's little narrative potential for it. Cersei is the prelude act, a guide of how not to scheme, seduce and manipulate to an end. All the potential now lies in showing how a female may play the game successfully, Cersei exists as a failure so that we may marvel in Sansa's success.

Why would the author so thoroughly flesh out Cersei's character and game playing to then retread the same ground with Sansa? It's simple pointless repetition, everything he could wish to show about the poor management of power and misuse of the manipulative arts could be shown in the first instance through Cersei.

[Pikachu101]

Sansa won't become Cersei because there's little narrative potential for it. Cersei is the prelude act, a guide of how not to scheme, seduce and manipulate to an end. All the potential now lies in showing how a female may play the game successfully, Cersei exists as a failure so that we may marvel in Sansa's success.

Why would the author so thoroughly flesh out Cersei's character and game playing to then retread the same ground with Sansa? It's simple pointless repetition, everything he could wish to show about the poor management of power and misuse of the manipulative arts could be shown in the first instance through Cersei.

:agree:

Perfect answer

[silentwanderer]

Judging only by the dynamic with Sweet Robin and Littlefinger, Sansa is doing exactly what Cersi did: lie and manipulate, "let" someone die and participate in it, steal a holdfast from within and marry an heir for personal gain.

She has a few good years to use her beauty to get what she wants, but other than a smaller prize Sansa has already turned into Cersei Lannister.

I like to think Sansa will create a facade around her, so no one can know the real Sansa Stark. So to the public she's Good Queen Alyssane 2.0 but behind closed doors she's LF 2.0

Either way Sansa is not becoming a Cersei 2.0, she's too intelligent

If Sansa were intelligent she would've seen right through Cersei before they sized her father, especially after Lady.

She couldn't even see Littlefinger coming and he was a text book case of dirty old man.

Much like Cersei, Sansa is pretty but not intelligent.

[BanzaiZ]

I don't blame Sansa for lying in this case. Marillion is odious, and it's her life or his. But perjury in a capital case can't be considered to be morally good. It's an example of how LF has begun to corrupt Sansa.

I think it's a stark contrast (pardon the pun) to how Sansa is learning to work her surroundings, and with how Ned maneuvered. She is troubled by the lie, it's not easy for her, but at the same time, how far is she to let "honor" go? It would have gotten her killed, even though she had done nothing to deserve it. The absolute adherence to honor got Ned killed. I think if anything, it's illustrating why Sansa has the potential to maneuver politics better than her father, possibly all of the remaining Starks.

She's in a rock and a hard place here, and she chose to save her skin over someone who had tried to rape her and gleefully would have let her aunt kill her. I think LF will think this is another lock he has securing his chains on Sansa, but it could severely come back to bite him in the ass.

But Cersei? Good heavens, no. Sansa would have to under go some sort of severe and swift Mord-Sith breaking to come out like Cersei, and even then I think Sansa would be much more like a Hannibal Lecter composed psychotic than the Cersei Lannister brand, so still not the same.

[Light a wight tonight]

She has a few good years to use her beauty to get what she wants, but other than a smaller prize Sansa has already turned into Cersei Lannister.

Yup, she's tried to twist Rickon's dick off, pushed Jeyne Pool down a well to drown, given birth to three kids by Robb, gotten Tyrion killed boar hunting while drunk, the list goes on and on. An exact match.

[silentwanderer]

Yup, she's tried to twist Rickon's dick off, pushed Jeyne Pool down a well to drown, given birth to three kids by Robb, gotten Tyrion killed boar hunting while drunk, the list goes on and on. An exact match.

Sansa did bully Arya along her friends & Septa, she let Littlefinger push Lysa through the Moongate and get away with it, she's about to engage in bigamy for her cousin's lands and get both Tyrion & Robin killed in order to achieve that much.

I get that she's a Stark, but I can't blind myself because of it.

[Willard/Mitt Lannister]

If Sansa were intelligent she would've seen right through Cersei before they sized her father, especially after Lady.

She couldn't even see Littlefinger coming and he was a text book case of dirty old man.

Much like Cersei, Sansa is pretty but not intelligent.

Where is the evidence for this?

Gosh, people. Sansa is eleven when the series begins. I am pretty sure very few of you were 100% honest, never picked on your siblings, and were experts on political psychology at eleven.

Any similarities between Sansa and Cersei are pretty superficial. Are there stories about Sansa being physically abusive, as there are with Cersei twisting baby Tyrion's cock? Did Sansa murder Jeyne Poole like Cersei killed Melara Hetherspoon?

Cersei has exhibited some sociopathic/narcissistic tendencies since day one, and Sansa is being normally selfish for a child.

I am gonna file this one away in the "unfounded speculation" bin for now...

[BanzaiZ]

Sansa did bully Arya along her friends & Septa, she let Littlefinger push Lysa through the Moongate and get away with it, she's about to engage in bigamy for her cousin's lands and get both Tyrion & Robin killed in order to achieve that much.

I get that she's a Stark, but I can't blind myself because of it.

And yet we're also shown scenes where Arya is the one causing a scene with the Septa and Sansa steps in to cover her.

Equating normal sibling rivalry to actual psychological and physical abuse: Check

Lysa had just tried to KILL Sansa. And had terrified her, and Sansa's attempted rapist was going to cover for Lysa. LF, as much as I loathe the man, did save Sansa's life... and immediately threatened her with implied death if she didn't corroborate his story.

Equating a person's attempted murder and then further falling victim to manipulations in order to not DIE to actual cold-blooded murder: check

Sansa was forced into her marriage to Tyrion, and is being forced into her marriage with Harrold. Cersei was made to marry Robert, but nobody forced her to shag her brother to the point she had three kids. She wasn't aware that LF was intending to kill SR, and we don't even know that she'll go along with it now that she knows. Sansa had no part of framing Tyrion for Joffrey's murder. At all. If she had stayed, she'd be right up there with her husband for trial.

Equating situations of forced relationships or death so another man can fulfill ambitions Sansa doesn't even want with choosing to enter a relationship with one's brother and bearing children, AND lying about it AND actively scheming: check

Logic apparently doesn't have to work in our world, and horrendously false equivalency rules the day. Got it.

[Light a wight tonight]

Sansa did bully Arya along her friends & Septa, she let Littlefinger push Lysa through the Moongate and get away with it, she's about to engage in bigamy for her cousin's lands and get both Tyrion & Robin killed in order to achieve that much.

I get that she's a Stark, but I can't blind myself because of it.

????? Lysa was trying to push Sansa out the Moon Door. LF pushing Lysa was a surprise to both Sansa and Lysa; even if Sansa had the physical strength to prevent the act she had no time to do it.

Sansa had no plans to commit bigamy; that was LF's plan. Likewise there's no evidence that she was onboard with killing Sweetrobin, just because she couldn't currently oppose LF.

[silentwanderer]

Sansa did bully Arya along her friends & Septa, she let Littlefinger push Lysa through the Moongate and get away with it, she's about to engage in bigamy for her cousin's lands and get both Tyrion & Robin killed in order to achieve that much.

I get that she's a Stark, but I can't blind myself because of it.

And yet we're also shown scenes where Arya is the one causing a scene with the Septa and Sansa steps in to cover her.

Equating normal sibling rivalry to actual psychological and physical abuse: Check

No arguments there: Arya gave as much as she received from Cersei or Sansa. The point remains Sansa keeps acting like Cersei throughout the saga.

Lysa was trying to push Sansa out the Moon Door.

Because Sansa was kissing her husband, which is also right out of Cersei alley: allow the Kettlebacks a feel or Littlefinger to kiss as he pleased, cheating on her husbad with her brother or cheating on her husband with an heir, plotting to kill a King to get what she wanted or plotting to kill the Lord of Casterly Rock to get what Sansa wanted.

Sansa and Cersei are one and the same, one is just a younger and less ambitious version than the other (hopefully, a less paranoid version as she grows old as well).

[SeanF]

Sansa is far too level-headed to be Cersei.

But, to survive and prosper in Martin's world, you have to be at least dark grey. And that's probably Sansa's path. One day, Sansa will laugh at the girl who thought that a ruler should seek to be loved.

[holycray]

With seeing how wicked and deluded Cersei is, I doubt Sansa will end up like her especially now that LF is her "guardian" so to speak. She'll learn how to play her cards wisely by his mentoring. Now whether she uses them against him in the future is another thing.

[Greymoon]

I feel like Sansa will become the next Cersei under Petyr. Supposedly, she has a very controversial chapter in The Winds of Winter. I think she is going to smother Robert Arryn, and blame it on his seizures so Harry the Heir (her betrothed) can become Lord of the Vale. Petyr will then mold her into Cersei 2.0. With all the emotional trauma she's been through, she flips the switch and becomes completely ruthless. When Petyr has nothing left to teach her, she kills him too for betraying Ned. Petyr never sees it coming because he still sees Cat when he looks at her and is blind to the monster he created. It just seems like the natural evolution for her character. She always wanted to be like Cersei, and she will be.

Thoughts?

I think it's more likely that Sansa willingly goes to LF's bed. That's controversial, not only because LF is practically a pedophile and lusting after the daughter of his first love but also...because I doubt Sansa would really want to. She might remember some of Cersei's lessons though and use her charms to reverse the power relationship between herself and Petyr - and later strangle him in his sleep.

[DogLover]

Sansa will have a sort of dual personality, basically she'll become what it seems everyone believes Margaery is. Sansa will cultivate a public persona, sweet, charitable, caring and innocent. It will not be a total façade as she does have a natural inclination towards such characteristics. But behind closed doors and in the shadows she will become Petyr Baelish and everything Cersei believes herself to be.

Sansa wants life to be a song and has shown no small resilience to accepting everything that doesn't fit the mould. She is now coming to believe that life as a song is not possible, it's just not like that, but it is still her ingrained desire. She will seek to turn this desire into reality, she'll attempt to create a world that is on the surface the world in her dreams. She'll come to believe that to create this world on the surface she will have to ruthlessly advance her agenda in the murky world below.

On the surface she will be to everyone everything that they desire. To the smallfolk she will be good, kind and charitable. To the Faith she will be virtuous and moralistic, the blue eyed maid herself. To her armed forces she will be a beacon to rally around, the natural and rightful claimant to their lord's lands and titles illegitimately cheated by evil characters through their devious plans. To Tyrion she will be the young, beautiful but vulnerable girl who requires his protection and guidance, with the promise of unconditional love always just around the next corner. To Sandor she will be true, one worth protecting.

Behind the scenes she will be what she needs to be to maintain the facade, a ruthless and calculating murderer, liar and schemer.

She will essentially become what Sandor hates the most, a fraud.

The question will be, if/when Sandor and Tyrion realise what she really is, how far they will follow her down the path, and how far she is willing to go herself to maintain her dream.

It's exactly because of Sansa's relationship with Sandor and his influence that none of this seems likely. Sandor has been the most influential person in her life since leaving Winterfell--the one person she's been able to let her guard down for and develop a real relationship with. As much as she hates his crude way of talking and is put off by his rage and anger, she respects his honesty and scorn for hypocrisy and has become a stronger person because of his harsh lessons. As for Sandor, he would never go back to protecting frauds, liars, and hypocrites. He's had enough. He would be disgusted by the Sansa you describe. And not only is Sansa constantly thinking of Sandor while in the Vale, she is also reminding herself that she's a Stark and needs to find strength in that. Sansa, who started out idealistic, and Sandor, who has held a contemptuous and nihilistic attitude of the world, will most likely meet again with their worldviews aligning more in the middle.

And what is Sansa's dream right now? It's to go home and to be loved for herself. She's given up on the fairy tales. That's not to say she'll be granted those wishes by GRRM, but Sansa has certainly realized that life is not a song and will not attempt to mold her worldview into said song even if it's only on the surface.

[SeanF]

It's exactly because of Sansa's relationship with Sandor and his influence that none of this seems likely. Sandor has been the most influential person in her life since leaving Winterfell--the one person she's been able to let her guard down for and develop a real relationship with. As much as she hates his crude way of talking and is put off by his rage and anger, she respects his honesty and scorn for hypocrisy and has become a stronger person because of his harsh lessons. As for Sandor, he would never go back to protecting frauds, liars, and hypocrites. He's had enough. He would be disgusted by the Sansa you describe. And not only is Sansa constantly thinking of Sandor while in the Vale, she is also reminding herself that she's a Stark and needs to find strength in that. Sansa, who started out idealistic, and Sandor, who has held a

contemptuous and nihilistic attitude of the world, will most likely meet again with their worldviews aligning more in the middle.

And what is Sansa's dream right now? It's to go home and to be loved for herself. She's given up on the fairy tales. That's not to say she'll be granted those wishes by GRRM, but Sansa has certainly realized that life is not a song and will not attempt to mold her worldview into said song even if it's only on the surface.

But, she could deceive Sandor into believing that she is virtuous, while really being a murderer, liar, and hypocrite. I think that's the poster's point.

[Consigliere]

Sansa will not be a Cersei 2.0. While I believe she will play a key role in LF downfall I dont think she will end up killing him. Cersei was a monster even in her youth. Abusing Tyrion when he was a baby and pushing her supposed best friend down a well.